What is THE Worst continuity error in Trek history..?!

[fireproof78]

When someone defends the series as much as he trashes it, then maybe there'd be a sign the fandom doesn't hate Voyager.

One man's opinion establishes the fandom doesn't hate a show? That's a rather ridiculous standard.

When you get that kind of nastiness directed to a fictional lead, you have to wonder what is going through peoples' heads.

No, I don't. There is all kinds of nastiness wished upon all kinds of people, fictional and non, on the Internet. Personally, I take death threats towards a real person more seriously.

Except the Borg, the Dominion, the Cardassians, etc..

I seem to recall all three not being regarded so well, and I never cared for the Cardassians, especially in TNG. "The Wounded" was probably the episode that established my negative opinion on the Cardassians and DS9 did nothing to improve it.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are many opinions and diversity among "the audience."

People look back on ENT with much more sympathy nowadays. Much much more.

I've not seen it. The only thing I see is attempts to fill in the various continuity gaffs. VOY at least has beloved characters that are still discussed and defended.

I mean it's too little too late to try and pretend they didn't hate the show while it was on.

We've been here before. Sorry, I don't buy it, and can't find the evidence for such an argument. But, please keep going on. It doesn't fit my personal experience, nor my research. In point of fact, for my brother and some other friends, VOY is their favorite Star Trek.

Which he'll still point out the good in, unlike any aspect of Voyager.

Again, no. These opinions focus entirely on the negative, without any acknowledgement of the positive.

And you agree with Kor about how the Utopianism was a dumb thing too, which means you advocate things being 100% the same as the present day right now.

I know this wasn't directed towards me, but that is a logical fallacy. A rejection of Utopianism doesn't mean I don't want humanity to change. It's not an black or white issue.

 

[BillJ]

I know this wasn't directed towards me, but that is a logical fallacy. A rejection of Utopianism doesn't mean I don't want humanity to change. It's not an black or white issue.

There are no shades of gray allows here!

Don't really like Voyager, don't really hate it either. It is just kinda there. A show that hit it out of the park a few times, but fell way short of its potential and acting talent.

And I've never seen anyone going on about their life being complete seeing Janeway raped.

 

[T'Arwen]

I've not seen it. The only thing I see is attempts to fill in the various continuity gaffs. VOY at least has beloved characters that are still discussed and defended.

Here's an except from a Yahoo article regarding the 10th anniversary of TATV. https://www.yahoo.com/tv/a-decade-without-trek-part-2-boldly-going-into-118951416590.html

I stand by Enterprise; I think it’s a really good show and there are episodes in there that are as good as anything I ever worked on in Star Trek. I was at a convention in London recently, and there were more people in Enterprise costumes than anyone else. I learned that, in England, they didn’t know they were supposed to hate it! [Laughs] I hope people continue to give it a second chance. I’ve never had so much freedom in storytelling and so much fun.

Various Trek FM hosts say some fans have rediscovered the show on Netflix and Amazon Prime and found it didn't suck as much as they remembered. Also, if there were no beloved characters, Trip's death on TATV wouldn't have angered so many people. His relationship with T'Pol has a cult following in fanfiction circles. Of course there are people who still hate ENT but they avoid it on Netflix. Nor would they listen to an ENT-related Trek FM podcast, where the hosts try to get people to rediscover the show. Those guys end up preaching to the choir.

 

[Anwar]

One man's opinion establishes the fandom doesn't hate a show? That's a rather ridiculous standard.

No one ever challenges SFDebris on anything, that says quite a lot.

I seem to recall all three not being regarded so well

They're certainly better regarded than the 8472 aliens.

I've not seen it.

I have. That's why so many were upset Trip got killed in TATV but if anyone on VOY died you wouldn't get a tear.

We've been here before. Sorry, I don't buy it, and can't find the evidence for such an argument. But, please keep going on. It doesn't fit my personal experience, nor my research. In point of fact, for my brother and some other friends, VOY is their favorite Star Trek.

Notice how most people only stopped being so openly hostile to the show once NuBSG ended? It was probably a realization that "Wow, this show fell apart super duper fast...if Voyager had done things the same it would've crashed and burned too. They way they did things was probably the better way to keep their jobs."

Again, no. These opinions focus entirely on the negative, without any acknowledgement of the positive.

He gave "Shades of Gray" a most positive reception than "Living Witness". That says it all.

I know this wasn't directed towards me, but that is a logical fallacy. A rejection of Utopianism doesn't mean I don't want humanity to change. It's not an black or white issue.

What TNG forgot is that a lot of people think they're the ultimate apex of Humanity and are repulsed at the notion that Humanity can ever be more than what it is now. Which is why they're so angry over how TNG didn't worship the 20th Century like it was the end-all-be-all of Human development the way TOS did. TNG bothered to say "The 20th Century and its attitudes were imperfect", and that's what people today just can't stand.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Which is why they're so angry over how TNG didn't worship the 20th Century like it was the end-all-be-all of Human development the way TOS did. TNG bothered to say "The 20th Century and its attitudes were imperfect", and that's what people today just can't stand.

TNG didn't simply say that the 20th century was imperfect. It went out of its way to SHIT on the 20th century.

TNG (the first season, anyway) did not present a "critical" view of the 20th century. It gloated in its superiority; it exhibited total, complete and utter smugness. "The Neutral Zone" was a perfect example of this.

To put it another way: You're right, in that TNG didn't worship the 20th century as the be-all and end-all of human existence. TNG worshiped ITSELF as those things.

 

[Anwar]

TNG didn't simply say that the 20th century was imperfect. It went out of its way to SHIT on the 20th century

So basically...they way people today react to how things were about 400 years ago? The way plenty of Nations today feel they are better than their own contemporaries?

Boy, it's not nice when someone else does that to YOU now is it?

TNG (the first season, anyway) did not present a "critical" view of the 20th century. It gloated in its superiority, it exhibited total, complete and utter smugness. "The Neutral Zone" was a perfect example of this.

If we ran into a bunch of people from the Colonial Era who displayed all the xenophobic, bigoted, Imperialist attitudes of that Era you honestly think anyone wouldn't feel embarrassed and even ashamed over that? You think we wouldn't feel any sense of superiority over them whatsoever?

To put it another way: You're right, in that TNG didn't worship the 20th century as the be-all and end-all of human existence. TNG worshiped ITSELF as those things.

Like people do right now?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And you agree with Kor about how the Utopianism was a dumb thing too, which means you advocate things being 100% the same as the present day right now.

Since I've asked you twice to stop doing this and you're just as oblivious as ever, welcome to my blocked list.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If we ran into a bunch of people from the Colonial Era who displayed all the xenophobic, bigoted, Imperialist attitudes of that Era you honestly think anyone wouldn't feel embarrassed and even ashamed over that? You think we wouldn't feel any sense of superiority over them whatsoever?

I think we would exhibit a more mature reaction than simply pointing at them and going "Nanny nanny boo-boo", which is basically what TNG did.

 

[Anwar]

I think we would exhibit a more mature reaction than simply pointing at them and going "Nanny nanny boo-boo", which is basically what TNG did.

Let me put it this way, if an American looked at a painting of how French Aristocrats used to dress (with the face powder and everything), would he say "Huh, that's awesome fashion!" or would be say "Duuurrrr....those surrender frogs sure used to dress pretty funny!"?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Have "Q Who?" have Q teleport the ENT-D into the middle a battle between a Borg Cube and some 8472 Bioships, with it being clear that the Borg aren't powerful enough to destroy them and I doubt anyone would've complained about the 8472 aliens.

That would have been a horrible story choice for the Borg's first appearance. The idea was to establish the Borg as a threat...what purpose would have been served in seeing them get their asses kicked right out of the gate?

Voyager just wants to please and be treated with the same decency as all the other students (the other Trek shows) and nothing it ever does will satisfy the Teacher (the audience). And all the student (Voyager) gets for its' troubles is scorn and disgust, with the other students ostracizing it merely for being there.

Voyager goofs off in class and doesn't even try to work to its potential.

 

[fireproof78]

No one ever challenges SFDebris on anything, that says quite a lot.

Again, he speaks for all of fandom? Let him know because he'll be happy to hear that and can remove that "Opinionated" part of his show title.

They're certainly better regarded than the 8472 aliens.

We had two episodes of 8472. Not a fair comparison, by a long shot.

I have. That's why so many were upset Trip got killed in TATV but if anyone on VOY died you wouldn't get a tear.

Which is why we have threads going on and on about Carey dying too soon, Kes' departure, return, and departure, among others.
TATV was just terrible television and ignored a lot of continuity, even from the previous episode. I don't think people were upset that Trip as they were how he died. Which is a big, big, difference.

Notice how most people only stopped being so openly hostile to the show once NuBSG ended? It was probably a realization that "Wow, this show fell apart super duper fast...if Voyager had done things the same it would've crashed and burned too. They way they did things was probably the better way to keep their jobs."

No, I didn't notice that, at all. Not a lot of hostility so much as criticism.
But, hey, I "hate" nuBSG so I probably operated in the wrong circles.

He gave "Shades of Gray" a most positive reception than "Living Witness". That says it all.

About his opinion. Yep, sure does.

What TNG forgot is that a lot of people think they're the ultimate apex of Humanity and are repulsed at the notion that Humanity can ever be more than what it is now. Which is why they're so angry over how TNG didn't worship the 20th Century like it was the end-all-be-all of Human development the way TOS did. TNG bothered to say "The 20th Century and its attitudes were imperfect", and that's what people today just can't stand.

Um, as others have pointed out, Riker basically called out capitalism as one of humanity's worst features, marveled that, under such a system, humanity managed to survive past the 20th century. It isn't calling it imperfect-it's treating it like humanity was nothing but scum in that era and beneath contempt.

Here's an except from a Yahoo article regarding the 10th anniversary of TATV. https://www.yahoo.com/tv/a-decade-without-trek-part-2-boldly-going-into-118951416590.html



Various Trek FM hosts say some fans have rediscovered the show on Netflix and Amazon Prime and found it didn't suck as much as they remembered. Also, if there were no beloved characters, Trip's death on TATV wouldn't have angered so many people. His relationship with T'Pol has a cult following in fanfiction circles. Of course there are people who still hate ENT but they avoid it on Netflix. Nor would they listen to an ENT-related Trek FM podcast, where the hosts try to get people to rediscover the show. Those guys end up preaching to the choir.

Hmm, the link isn't working, but I will find the article.

Unfortunately, at least in my experience, the opinions of different shows become a bit of an echo chamber in the internet, with like minded individuals tending to gravitate towards each other, reaffirming either strengths or weaknesses of their preferred topic. Star Trek is certainly no exception.

I personally prefer to do research and understand where everyone is coming from. I certainly get the dislike of VOY, DS9 and other incarnations of Star Trek. I know some Trek fans who have never watched, and have no desire to watch, anything besides TOS.

There are no shades of gray allows here!

Don't really like Voyager, don't really hate it either. It is just kinda there. A show that hit it out of the park a few times, but fell way short of its potential and acting talent.

And I've never seen anyone going on about their life being complete seeing Janeway raped.

You clearly are hanging out with the wrong crowd

 

[BillJ]

You clearly are hanging out with the wrong crowd...

Definitely not a crowd I'd want to hang with.

 

[fireproof78]

Definitely not a crowd I'd want to hang with.

Good point. You clearly are hanging out with the right crowd. Fix it for me

 

[BillJ]

If one likes Voyager, what do they care what other folks think? They got 178 episodes and a great novel series being written by Kristen Beyer.

 

[Anwar]

That would have been a horrible story choice for the Borg's first appearance. The idea was to establish the Borg as a threat...what purpose would have been served in seeing them get their asses kicked right out of the gate?

To make it clear that while they're tougher than the Feds, they certainly are not the end all be all of threats out there and people shouldn't be surprised that they can lose to anyone else.

Voyager goofs off in class and doesn't even try to work to its potential.

It comes in enthusiastic and cheerful only to be greeted by frostiness and unrealistic expectations, and has absolutely no incentive to put more effort in because it never received any form of encouragement. The teacher tells the happy cheerful kid right on day one that it will never amount to anything. The teacher wants more effort, it shouldn't go out of its way to be an unpleasable jerkwad.

 

[eyeresist]

I can understand that "ahead warp factor x" isn't always supposed to work out mathematically, but at the very least give us some consistent idea of total speed limits, or distances between planets.

It would be nice if for the new series the writers built up some sort of map for reference purposes.

The worst continuity error in Star Trek history is......
No Money!!

Maybe in TVH Kirk should have said, "Ask me again in 20 years, when I can EFTPOS this biatch."

I've not seen it. The only thing I see is attempts to fill in the various continuity gaffs. VOY at least has beloved characters that are still discussed and defended.

So does ENT. The ENT sub-forum also has a regular dripfeed of people coming in and saying "I dismissed it originally, but now I find a lot to like."
The contintuity "gaffs" were no worse than any other Trek series.

 

[fireproof78]

So does ENT. The ENT sub-forum also has a regular dripfeed of people coming in and saying "I dismissed it originally, but now I find a lot to like."
The contintuity "gaffs" were no worse than any other Trek series.

Nope, they were not. I just noticed them more because I was older

 

[Anwar]

Sorry, I don't know how to merge posts.

Again, he speaks for all of fandom?

No one bothers counting anything he says, which means no one challenges his views as incorrect.

We had two episodes of 8472. Not a fair comparison, by a long shot.

If the Borg and Dominion and Cardassians had gotten the came reception they did, odds are we wouldn't have gotten more of them either.

Which is why we have threads going on and on about Carey dying too soon, Kes' departure, return, and departure, among others.

Compared to how the ENT Novels undid his death entirely?

No, I didn't notice that, at all. Not a lot of hostility so much as criticism.

Voyager's critiques always had that extra dose of venom involved.

About his opinion. Yep, sure does.

His unchallenged opinion, yes.

Um, as others have pointed out, Riker basically called out capitalism as one of humanity's worst features, marveled that, under such a system, humanity managed to survive past the 20th century. It isn't calling it imperfect-it's treating it like humanity was nothing but scum in that era and beneath contempt.

It's hardly different from how people today keep thinking Feudalism was barbaric and useless.

Hell, other shows do it too like how the Doctor from Doctor Who keeps looking down on Humans as "Stupid Apes".

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry, I don't know how to merge posts.



No one bothers counting anything he says, which means no one challenges his views as incorrect.

Doesn't mean he speaks for the whole fandom, since fandom is large and diverse and all that jazz. Also, he establishes that it is just his opinion and all scores are relative to there respective series and cannot be compared from series to series.

In other words-no.

If the Borg and Dominion and Cardassians had gotten the came reception they did, odds are we wouldn't have gotten more of them either.

I don't see the difference, because there are one off aliens all the time in every Trek iteration. VOY is not special. We've been through this.

Compared to how the ENT Novels undid his death entirely?

Shatner undid Kirk's death. So?

Voyager's critiques always had that extra dose of venom involved.

If I look, I can find venom in TOS, TNG, DS9. ENT and definitely at Abrams films. VOY is not special.

His unchallenged opinion, yes.

I've challenged it. He has a whole forum for discussion. You don't like it-challenge it. Do your own content, your own show and provide us the evidence that support your opinion.

It's hardly different from how people today keep thinking Feudalism was barbaric and useless.

I still don't wonder at how humanity survived or that feudalism was the worst thing to befall humanity.

 

[TheSubCommander]

The continuity error that bothers me the most is B-4 from Nemesis. We were led to believe that only Data, Lore, and Juliana Tainar were the only Soong-Type androids to exist, with Lal being a failed attempt. Then come the retcon of B-4. Data met Soong, as well as conversed with him in his programming, as well as met the Tainar android and Lore, and no one ever bothered to mention B-4. Very poor writing. I would have bought it easier if B-4 had been actually written as Lore.

First contact with the Borg in "Q Who".

Except the Hansens were on a mission to study the Borg 20 years before in "Dark Frontier"

Except the Enterprise-B rescued refugees from the Borg attack on Guinan's world in "Generations"

Except Captain Archer was battling some "First Contact" survivors in 2152's "Regeneration"

I can suspend disbelief for the Hansens in Dark Frontier, and also Regeneration. The Hansens were just weirdos that others in the Federation considered crackpots, so any reporting they had done was seen with skepticism. We don't even know what findings of the Borg they even shared. Regeneration, I chalk up to Starfleet not knowing who or what the Borg was, and just recorded it as a one-off event, that was quickly forgotten since the Borg never returned.

But Generations never explicitly said they were refugees from a Borg attack. The El Aurians were there trying to get into the Nexus. For all we know, they were nomads long before Generations.

However, the fact the El Aurians never bothered to explain to anyone in the Federation why they were homeless, and scattered IS a continuity error. Why wouldn't the survivors be telling anyone and everyone about the Borg,a nd how dangerous they are? Especially if Guinan has been visiting Earth since the 19th century!