Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

[Christopher]

Their backstory for the Coluans seemed pretty different from the comics version. I read through the entries for Colu it sounds like they were pretty much normal aliens. They seem to have taken the whole Kryptonian supercomputer concept for Braniac from Superman: The Animated Series, and applied it to all of the Coluans .

That's pretty much what the 2006 Legion of Super Heroes series did with Brainiac-5 and the Coluans. Smallville also adopted S:TAS's portrayal of Brainiac as a Kryptonian supercomputer, and their Brainiac-5 was a modification of the original Brainiac (James Marsters) reprogrammed to be a good guy. And the three-dot pattern on Indigo's forehead, though it is part of her comics appearance, originated with S:TAS's Brainiac design.

It's a comic book show. I'm not really expecting it to accurately reflect how real ICBMs work, and the vast majority of people watching wouldn't know any differently anyway.

It's not about how well the show fits reality, it's about its own internal consistency. As a rule, a story that departs from reality should still be true to its own internal logic for the sake of credibility. So it's inconsistent to say Supergirl is faster than Superman at one point in the episode if you intend to show later that she might not be fast enough to catch a missile. It's sending mixed messages. It's the incongruity between those two scenes that pulled me out of the story -- nothing to do with "how real ICBMs work," because that's not a subject I have any knowledge of.

 

[Tuskin38]

Huh, I had no idea the 3-dot pattern originated with S:TAS.

S:TAS was my first introduction to Superman as a kid, so i just assumed it came from the comics.

 

[Admiral2]

Huh, I had no idea the 3-dot pattern originated with S:TAS.

S:TAS was my first introduction to Superman as a kid, so i just assumed it came from the comics.

It didn't originate in the cartoon. The S:TAS version is a modification of Braniac's original appearance, with a crown of dots around his bald head and three prominent ones on his forehead

 

[Christopher]

Huh, I had no idea the 3-dot pattern originated with S:TAS.

S:TAS was my first introduction to Superman as a kid, so i just assumed it came from the comics.

Well, the original Brainiac did have a pattern of red dots connected by black lines, but its specific shape varied -- sometimes it went all the way around his head and had as many as nine dots in a zigzag pattern, sometimes it was a single circlet with 4-6 dots evenly spaced around it, sometimes it was a pattern of five dots in a flattened X-shape on his forehead. It was S:TAS that codified the simpler pattern of three circles in an inverted triangle.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

Honestly, I find the animated series' take on Brainiac far and away superior to anything the comics themselves produced, and certainly far more sensible. That's pretty rare praise, too. At least from me.

 

[Admiral2]

Honestly, I find the animated series' take on Brainiac far and away superior to anything the comics themselves produced, and certainly far more sensible. That's pretty rare praise, too. At least from me.

Well yeah, he might actually kill you. Comics Brainiac is just as likely to shrink you teeny-tiny...

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Really? I thought it was remarkably bad. Not for the effects, but for everything else about that scene.

The FX were bad, as the flying--once again--seemed cut and paste; she did not look like she was in the same shot with the passing landscape or the missile at all.

Yet a handful of minutes later, she's struggling to catch up with a subsonic (at least it certainly looked subsonic, not that it matters too much either way) missile and had trouble ripping open a thin piece of sheet metal to get the control panel. Hell, she had trouble lifting her own weight as she climbed up the missile (and again, why did she need to do that in the first place? Literally seconds before that she was seen traveling faster than the missile, hence her actually catching up to it.)

Just... what?

The "what?" is the fake drama at the expense of sense.

^^
In Superman he lifts an entire tectonic plate and flies around the Earth several times per second, yet he can't fly the length of continental US and stop two tiny missiles in several minutes.

It's not really that much different...

Yes, it is different, as Superman's pursuit of the missiles came right on the heels of his being chained to a Kryptonite rock, so his system was not entirely "clean" of its effects. In last night's episode, the villain's attack could not--and did not drain SG the way exposure to Kryptonite would, so she should not struggle with catching the missile at all.

It was pointless fan pandering to even mention she's allegedly faster than Superman, only to have her not be as fast as a common earth weapon.

 

[davejames]

It's not about how well the show fits reality, it's about its own internal consistency. As a rule, a story that departs from reality should still be true to its own internal logic for the sake of credibility. So it's inconsistent to say Supergirl is faster than Superman at one point in the episode if you intend to show later that she might not be fast enough to catch a missile. It's sending mixed messages. It's the incongruity between those two scenes that pulled me out of the story -- nothing to do with "how real ICBMs work," because that's not a subject I have any knowledge of.

Well it hasn't exactly been established how fast Superman is in this world (or his ability to catch a missile), so I don't see what exactly was contradicted here.

And I'm obviously not an expert on the subject, but a quick google search shows the typical ICBM speed as being around 13,400 mph compared to a bullet's speed of just 1,700 mph. So I can see how that might be much more of a challenge for a Supergirl to catch up to, no matter how much faster than Supes she might be.

 

[davejames]

The FX were bad, as the flying--once again--seemed cut and paste; she did not look like she was in the same shot with the passing landscape or the missile at all.

Cut and paste? Seriously? Like everyone else I've watched a ton of superhero shows and movies over the years, and to me these were flying effects that looked as good as anything in any recent superhero movie.

In fact I'd rank them higher than those of MOS and SR, or Iron Man in the Marvel movies, since it actually relies more on a real actor than a clearly fake digital double.

The only element that might have looked a bit fake and prop-like was the missile itself, but that was more about the construction of the prop than the surrounding effects.

 

[Christopher]

Well it hasn't exactly been established how fast Superman is in this world (or his ability to catch a missile), so I don't see what exactly was contradicted here.

It's not about Superman, and it's not about facts. It's about impressions, structure, and Chekhov's Gun. If you want to show your heroine struggling to be fast enough in the climax, it's an odd writing choice to have a character mention earlier that she's unusually fast, because it sets up the opposite impression from what's relevant to the climax. Whatever the objective facts may be, writing is largely about conveying impressions and guiding the audience's thoughts and perceptions in a certain way. After all, they won't be able to look up the facts until later; what matters is what they think and feel and react to in the moment.

 

[JD]

So where does the whole computer thing for Brainiac come from? When I was skimming the Wikipedia article for him it only briefly mentions the ability to manipulate computers in his abilities, but it didn't sound like any of his plots had much to do with computers.

 

[dahj]

Yes, it is different, as Superman's pursuit of the missiles came right on the heels of his being chained to a Kryptonite rock

But the tectonic plate lifting and superfast flying happens immediately after the missile chase.
So what, he got better at the speed of plot?

I never saw the point in expecting consistency when dealing with superheroes with superstrength and superspeed because physical accuracy has never been a thing with comics, but one can always make up an excuse to handwave a discrepancy in power levels, you're just being selective about where you apply it.

So let's just say the rivets on the rocket were unbeknownst to anybody made from an alloy that was infused with tiny bits of kryptonite which conveniently slowed her down just enough.
There, convenient excuse, now enjoy the rocket chase scene.

 

[Admiral2]

So where does the whole computer thing for Brainiac come from? When I was skimming the Wikipedia article for him it only briefly mentions the ability to manipulate computers in his abilities, but it didn't sound like any of his plots had much to do with computers.

Well that did start with S:TAS when Brainiac stopped being an alien and became the Kryptonian database.

 

[davejames]

It's not about Superman, and it's not about facts. It's about impressions, structure, and Chekhov's Gun. If you want to show your heroine struggling to be fast enough in the climax, it's an odd writing choice to have a character mention earlier that she's unusually fast, because it sets up the opposite impression from what's relevant to the climax. Whatever the objective facts may be, writing is largely about conveying impressions and guiding the audience's thoughts and perceptions in a certain way. After all, they won't be able to look up the facts until later; what matters is what they think and feel and react to in the moment.

Well I really doubt the majority of people watching were really thinking back to Olson's offhand comments earlier in the episode while the missile chase was going on (more likely just the super obsessive people like us who comment on message boards).

And in any case, who's to say that her being "unusually fast" isn't what allowed her to catch up to the missile in the first place? We saw her not only catch up to it multiple times, but fly a bit faster as well (while Supes could only just catch it's engines way back in STM). So I guess maybe Olson's comment did prove true.

Regardless though, these missiles apparently move really damn fast, so this idea that it should have just been a total breeze for her just seems odd to me.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So where does the whole computer thing for Brainiac come from? When I was skimming the Wikipedia article for him it only briefly mentions the ability to manipulate computers in his abilities, but it didn't sound like any of his plots had much to do with computers.

The flesh and blood Brianics (The Doxes) are a family. Braniac 1 is the Superman Villain, Brainiac two, a biological son who went on to found the interplanetary police force L.E.G.I.O.N. in the 1980s (he lives in the present), his (still) biological son Brainac 3 was a baby who tried to conquer the universe before he could walk. Mark Waid made these jokes where after Brainiac 3'd finish his Hitler speeches, and then baby Dox would admit that he had soiled himself, and someone had to wipe him and get rid of his diaper or he would burn all their planets to ash. Then much later in the Legion of Superheroes in the 30th/31st century Brainiac 5 (I remember this one claiming that he got smarter, and is now Brainiac 6, but that might have been a cartoon?) is a good guy, hopelessly in love with Supergirl.

Problem is is that Brainiac 1 is an an arrogant shit who keeps modifying his own name to address his increases in intelligence or/and power, which is how after Brainiac 1 digitized his intelligence and became an endless series of robots, he is (eventually) both Brainiac 13 and Brainiac 8 (Indigo) at different points in his development, which because of time travel keep becoming the 20th/21st century's problem.

Indigo crash landed hard while coming back in time. Amnesia. She was a goodie working along Judd Winick's Outsiders (2005ish) until she remembered who she was, and immediately started trying to kill all her "Friends". Donna Troy/Wonder Girl was dead for a while because of this.

 

[Admiral2]

Well I really doubt the majority of people watching were really thinking back to Olson's offhand comments earlier in the episode while the missile chase was going on (more likely just the super obsessive people like us who comment on message boards).

And in any case, who's to say that her being "unusually fast" isn't what allowed her to catch up to the missile in the first place? We saw her not only catch up to it multiple times, but fly a bit faster as well (while Supes could only just catch it's engines way back in STM). So I guess maybe Olson's comment did prove true.

Regardless though, these missiles apparently move really damn fast, so this idea that it should have just been a total breeze for her just seems odd to me.

Then how about this: forget chasing the missile. If the thing had been depicted accurately the smartest thing for her to do would have been just to let the sucker fly.

It's a BALLISTIC missile. It flies in an arc from launch point to target and it breaks up on the way until there's nothing left but the actual warheads which are what actually destroy the target. If I were Supergirl - or Superman, or anybody with the power to fly really fast - I would just haul ass back to National City and hover above the city and intercept the warhead(s) before they descended to their triggering altitude. That way, you're not chasing anything. The targets are coming to you. Just as dramatic as a missile chase...

...but only if you don't insist on treating an ICBM like a cruise missile.

 

[davejames]

Well sure, if she can know precisely where in the city the warhead is going to hit, but there's no guarantee she would have that information. And without it she's have to just hover at the center of the city and hope she could fly over fast enough to stop something moving many many times faster than a speeding bullet. And by that point she would likely just have one shot at catching it.

Somehow that seems a lot riskier to me than flying up alongside a missile as it's actually flying and trying to deflect or stop it ahead of time.

 

[Christopher]

So where does the whole computer thing for Brainiac come from? When I was skimming the Wikipedia article for him it only briefly mentions the ability to manipulate computers in his abilities, but it didn't sound like any of his plots had much to do with computers.

He was established as an android in 1964, six years after his creation. It's an interesting story -- his creators Otto Binder and Al Plastino (also Supergirl's creators) named him as a blend of "brain" and "maniac," but it turned out there was already an educational toy called the "Brainiac Computer Kit" on the market, named in part after ENIAC, one of the first electronic computers, which was touted in the press as a "Giant Brain" when it went online in the late '40s. The maker of the kit, Edmund Berkeley, complained to DC for their use of the name Brainiac, and, as explained here, they came to a rather unusual agreement where DC not only acknowledged Berkeley's prior claim to the name in Brainiac's next appearance, but retconned their villain into a computerized being so that he'd be more like his namesake product and thus, theoretically, help to promote it. Which is really weird, but kind of an ingenious way to resolve a trademark dispute.

 

[Admiral2]

Well sure, if she can know precisely where in the city the warhead is going to hit, but there's no guarantee she would have that information.

Yes there is, because the DEO would have that information, because Indigo would have that information, because Indigo couldn't have launched the missile at the city at all without precisely targeting it. And the DEO was tracking the missile anyway. It's not like they couldn't call up the weapons specs and make an educated guess.

And without it she's have to just hover at the center of the city and hope she could fly over fast enough to stop something moving many many times faster than a speeding bullet. And by that point she would likely just have one shot at catching it.

Or, she could use her telescopic vision to track the warheads before they enter the lower atmosphere and destroy them with her heat vision (eye lasers that travel a lot damn faster than her or the missile.)

Somehow that seems a lot riskier to me than flying up alongside a missile as it's actually flying and trying to deflect or stop it ahead of time.

But you're the one that keeps saying she might not be fast enough to do that. Better to risk a defense that you can make work than a useless pursuit you can't. Chasing the missile only works if the writers make the missile do things it doesn't actually do.

 

[The Old Mixer]

People are complaining about the quality of the episode? It had a Legion flight ring...was there anything else in the episode...?

As to why Superman's never around...maybe he spends a lot of time in the 31st century....