CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[carlosp]

Ares Studios doesn't exist as a legal entity, only Axanar Productions Inc. does. It's just a name, a hope, really, for Peters' future endeavors. The judgment in this case would apply only to the named defendants (i.e., Peters personally and Axanar Prods., Inc.). If Ares is incorporated separately someday and has the (non-Axanar-related) finances to actually open a rentable studio, it could conceivably rent out its facilities for other fan films, just like it might to any production, so long as Peters himself is not directly involved. It would be like suing the company you rent your studio lights from because your production infringed on someone else's copyright; it's simply not an accountable party.

 

[muCephi]

So, yeah, tell me again what makes Axanar's story plot points so original and not done in Star Trek previously again?

maybe its "the original" if its set in an earlier time period.

 

[TribbleTrouble1]

Ares Studios doesn't exist as a legal entity, only Axanar Productions Inc. does. It's just a name, a hope, really, for Peters' future endeavors. The judgment in this case would apply only to the named defendants (i.e., Peters personally and Axanar Prods., Inc.). If Ares is incorporated separately someday and has the (non-Axanar-related) finances to actually open a rentable studio, it could conceivably rent out its facilities for other fan films, just like it might to any production, so long as Peters himself is not directly involved. It would be like suing the company you rent your studio lights from because your production infringed on someone else's copyright; it's simply not an accountable party.

I think perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I am fully aware of the current legal non-existence of Ares (as far as we know) and that it is little more than a pet name for the studio within the defendant Axanar Productions. There was some speculation upthread about what Alec might do even if Axanar and Alec go bankrupt in connection with the lawsuit where he could incorporate Ares as a new commercial start-up entity and ta-da! he's back in business and ready to crowdfund again to keep the lights on. In fact, I suspect that's been the plan for Ares for quite some time based on something Terry (or maybe RMB) said somewhere about how they were REALLY looking forward to equity crowdfunding opening to non-accredited investors this May.

My question was more along the lines of how much distance would there need to be between Alec and Ares should the CBS/P lawsuit go fully against him and he is barred from "participating or assisting" in any Star Trek fan production that uses the Star Trek Copyrighted Works. It seems likely that CBS/P would not be happy if, after such a judgment against him, Alec is enjoying any financial benefit from their IP. So, if Alec is founder/chair/CEO/majority stockholder of Ares it seems they'd need to find a creative way to wall him off if they want to do any business with any ST fan productions.

 

[Jay]

My question was more along the lines of how much distance would there need to be between Alec and Ares should the CBS/P lawsuit go fully against him and he is barred from "participating or assisting" in any Star Trek fan production that uses the Star Trek Copyrighted Works.

What fan production wants anything to do with Peters at the point?

How many Axanar people are even Axanar people. Anyone heard from his co-writer? The original director left, Tony Todd left. No one has actually been signed officially anyway. David Gerold supported it early and then said Peters DIDN'T sign up to make his series where Peter's had bragged they had. David Galantner posted a hundred pages back that Peters said they were writing the screen play together at one time but his named isn't on it and the writer said he only given advice and wasn't a writer of it. It seems like a lot of people either were involved or aren't really, or never were much involved but their level of participation was pumped and fluffed.

 

[Mudd]

...their level of participation was pumped and fluffed.

Paging Cash Markman!

 

[Mudd]

This from Axanar's press release about a year ago, still online:

"Star Trek: Axanar, a groundbreaking, officially-sanctioned independent film begins pre-production following a hugely successful Kickstarter campaign...

"... it looks like a fan tradition that began with a Star trek letter-writing campaign in 1967 has evolved to the point where the fans will lead the way, and take ownership of the original vision."

Wonder if their tendency to push themselves as "officially-sanctioned" played into the lawsuit?

http://axanar.e-presscenter.com/2015/03/hello-world/

 

[Jay]

I don't see in the link where it says officially-sanctioned.

 

[urbandefault]

This from Axanar's press release about a year ago, still online:

"Star Trek: Axanar, a groundbreaking, officially-sanctioned independent film begins pre-production following a hugely successful Kickstarter campaign...

"... it looks like a fan tradition that began with a Star trek letter-writing campaign in 1967 has evolved to the point where the fans will lead the way, and take ownership of the original vision."

Wonder if their tendency to push themselves as "officially-sanctioned" played into the lawsuit?

http://axanar.e-presscenter.com/2015/03/hello-world/

I don't see in the link where it says officially-sanctioned.

Me too. Anybody have a screenshot of the unedited version?

 

[Albinator]

W It seems like a lot of people either were involved or aren't really, or never were much involved but their level of participation was pumped and fluffed.

I suspect prior to the suit certain people were happy to oversell their level of involvement, and after the suit are now downplaying it as relatively negligible-- when the truth is probably somewhere in between.

Right now, I think most everyone but Peters and Burnett are doing their best to distance themselves as much as possible, either by downplaying their part in it, or not saying anything at all.

 

[Earthrise]

Me too. Anybody have a screenshot of the unedited version?

No, and the Wayback Machine link for that specific page is not working for me. Too bad there's another one. Bottom right corner.

Edit to add: Screenshot for the link averse.

Edit #2: Also of note, as of today that link description wasn't edited. (Bottom of page) In the immortal words of Rick Perry: "Oops."

 

[Jay]

Just found this by searching:

Star Trek: Axanar

Looks like David Galanter was right about not doing much with the script but was hyped on how much he liked it. Any changes with him? He posts here so if he wants to chime in...

 

[BillJ]

Loeb & Loeb have to be smelling blood at this point.

 

[Jedi_Master]

No, and the Wayback Machine link for that specific page is not working for me. Too bad there's another one. Bottom right corner.

Edit to add: Screenshot for the link averse.

Edit #2: Also of note, as of today that link description wasn't edited. (Bottom of page) In the immortal words of Rick Perry: "Oops."

Seems like Boomer needs to put a little more effort into scrubbing the hubris off the Axanar website(s).

 

[jespah]

So a random thought occurred to me as I was rereading this language...could this conceivably be interpreted as barring not just Axanar Productions from continuing, but Alec personally (and any Does if they are ever named) from participating or assisting on ANY Star Trek fan production that uses the Star Trek Copyrighted Works in the world? If Alec is indeed the sole owner and shareholder of AP of which Aries Studios is currently a part, could that order conceivably bar Aries Studios from ever being rented out to or used for other ST fan productions as originally planned? Further could it bar Alec (and any named Does) individually from even working with any other ST fan productions in any capacity? If the language can be interpreted that broadly, then theoretically even if Alec separately incorporates Aries Studios, neither he nor any named Does could be associated with it if it intends to do business with any fan production that uses the Star Trek Copyrighted Works.

Is that a ridiculously broad misinterpretation of that language or could it put Alec out of the Star Trek fan film biz altogether if he loses?

It's probably an overly broad interpretation for, say, Hatch or a costumer or the like.

One thing about a prayer for relief is that it's a lot like the opening salvo in a negotiation. E. g. you ask for the most you think you can possibly get, and then you work from that. You build in a buffer for concessions.

What does CBS/Paramount really want? Hard to say (and now we're really in the land o' speculation, folks), but if 9 separate IP violations are found (9 x $150,000 = $1.35M), then the KS and IGG $$ is completely gone (never mind that a lot of it has already been spent on props and possibly office space and crowdfunding fees and the like. The studio lease would be assumed by the plaintiffs, I imagine, if assets needed to be handed over). The well is dry by that time. Then the two proposed bits of injunctive relief are to keep this outfit from doing it again, either in the US or elsewhere.

What are 9 really, really strict IP violations?

1. The Vulcan scene
2. Prelude
3. The models
4. The badges
5. The Soval character (particularly due to Gary Graham's near-exact reprisal of his own canon performance, and the only differences are due to the actor's aging since he last played the role)
6. Klingons
7. Vulcans
8. DVDs
9. The use of the word Axanar itself.

You don't even have to get into IDIC pins or even the Enterprise herself.

 

[Admiral Cain]

If he is barred from selling any works derived from the Star Trek copyrighed works, could he conceivably be barred from selling Star Trek props via Propworx or any other means?

 

[Mudd]

I don't see in the link where it says officially-sanctioned.

Scrubbed, and quickly. As noted above, there are other instances of the text on their webpages. Folks have been screencapping them.

We're sort of helping them edit their website, here.

 

[muCephi]

I don't see in the link where it says officially-sanctioned.

what they probably mean is tacitly sanctioned. "CBS has an official policy that if they hold their tongue if you don't make money, and they have held their tongue, so its officially tacitly sanctioned". elide that some, arise at weaselspeak, "officially sanctioned". just gotta get out the crowbar parser and pry it open. see also: not making a profit after spending all the money on a for profit business --> not making any money --> "non profit" --> 501(c)3 in progress --> officially sanctioned.

 

[Tom]

With all editing sent to Leob & Leob for review

 

[Squiggy]

That was true for every-other fan film so there wouldn't be any point in mentioning it.

 

[muCephi]

What does CBS/Paramount really want?

in all likelihood they want to permanently end the event that a persistent mosquito has found its way through the net. that would involve both the mosquito, and the path it found.