Star Trek Maps (1980)
- Thread starter Darkwing
- Start date
We don't definitively know how stardates equate to days, so I'm not sure we can say three days passed or not.
--Alex
that is was around 40
eridani
Spcok solved the engine problem
Memory Alpha says it was 1991. Apparantly the idea originated with James Blish, and was further popularized in the FJ Technical Manual (the latter was where I had always thought it arose).
I might be mistaken but the 7410.2 stardate is a director's cut addition that didn't appear in the theatrical release in 1979 so I am not sure how much stock can be put in its relevance. And even if you allow for it (or that it appears somewhere I am not aware of), the Klingon attack and events on Vulcan occur before we are given that date. Surely some allowance of time must be given for Epsilon 9 to report, for Kirk to be made aware of it and for him to travel to SanFran to meet with Nogura. For all we know, Spock's rejection on Vulcan happens two or three days earlier then Kirk's arrival on the Enterprise.
Might be weeks earlier for all we know. It just casts Vulcans in a dark light when their kolinahr masters (and their well-known dropout) know about this intelligence approaching from deep space and tell nobody about it. Or then it just casts Starfleet in a dark light for dismissing that as Vulcan mystisicm and mumbo-jumbo. 
But we probably shouldn't mess with the actual sequence of events here. The Vulcan scenes are shown coming after Epsilon 9 learns of the threat, and while Starfleet might well spend several days assessing that threat (and recognizing that no other starship of sufficient potency will make it to the intercept even in that time, so the E has to go), they wouldn't spend weeks.
Yup - so it becomes an exercise for the audience to accept these figures while refusing to accept the WF^3 scale that is otherwise incompatible with Star Trek. I could well see Scotty thinking "Hmm... The engines were tested. I found out what they are like, didn't I? Let's stick to warp three for this one".
And when Kirk subsequently orders "Thataway!", I can see him thinking like a true engineer: "A proper shakedown! Finally! Let's do warp one for two minutes, then cool down, check out all the systems, run a Level One on the primaries and Level Three on the secondaries, compare our notes, then do warp two for two minutes..."
Timo Saloniemi
But we probably shouldn't mess with the actual sequence of events here. The Vulcan scenes are shown coming after Epsilon 9 learns of the threat, and while Starfleet might well spend several days assessing that threat (and recognizing that no other starship of sufficient potency will make it to the intercept even in that time, so the E has to go), they wouldn't spend weeks.
Yup - so it becomes an exercise for the audience to accept these figures while refusing to accept the WF^3 scale that is otherwise incompatible with Star Trek. I could well see Scotty thinking "Hmm... The engines were tested. I found out what they are like, didn't I? Let's stick to warp three for this one".
And when Kirk subsequently orders "Thataway!", I can see him thinking like a true engineer: "A proper shakedown! Finally! Let's do warp one for two minutes, then cool down, check out all the systems, run a Level One on the primaries and Level Three on the secondaries, compare our notes, then do warp two for two minutes..."
Timo Saloniemi
That is the most believable scenario I've read for a long time. I bet Kirk never asked for a "proper shakedown" after that!
That's a good point, and worth re-examining for travel times:
- In the Rec Deck scene, the V’ger cloud is less than 53.4 hours away from Earth (and near the Klingon border). Pre-launch countdown commences in 40 minutes.
- 1.8 hours from lauch, Decker calculates that at Warp 7 they will intercept the cloud in 21.1 hours.
- Just after the wormhole incident, Kirk tells Scotty that the cloud is “less than 2 days from Earth”
- Then Spock arrives and repairs the engines in “less than 3 hours” which means they can intercept the cloud while still more than a day from Earth.
This is all more or less consistent with itself. All good. However, if Scott is using Warp 12 the WF^3 scale then that means Vulcan is at least twice as far away as the Klingon border!
Furthermore, if the Vulcan system is indeed 40 Eridani (16.3ly away) and Enterprise previously travelled at Warp 7 on the WF^3 scale, that places the Klingon border at a mere 2ly from Earth!
All in all, the sequence of events actually supports Scotty using a slow speed when giving Spock's 4 day travel estimate.
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Why would he do this?
Yup, the stardate 7410.2 is on the remastered edition.
star Trek canon has 40 Eridani as Vulcan's location, 16.3 Ly from Earth.
There's no indication it can go at warp 12 or even how fast that would be. But again we have the problem that Vulcan according to canon is 16.3 LY and can be reached in 4 days when Archer traveled to Kronos 100Ly away at warp 4.5 in 3.3 daysMight be weeks earlier for all we know. It just casts Vulcans in a dark light when their kolinahr masters (and their well-known dropout) know about this intelligence approaching from deep space and tell nobody about it. Or then it just casts Starfleet in a dark light for dismissing that as Vulcan mystisicm and mumbo-jumbo.
But we probably shouldn't mess with the actual sequence of events here. The Vulcan scenes are shown coming after Epsilon 9 learns of the threat, and while Starfleet might well spend several days assessing that threat (and recognizing that no other starship of sufficient potency will make it to the intercept even in that time, so the E has to go), they wouldn't spend weeks.
Yup - so it becomes an exercise for the audience to accept these figures while refusing to accept the WF^3 scale that is otherwise incompatible with Star Trek. I could well see Scotty thinking "Hmm... The engines were tested. I found out what they are like, didn't I? Let's stick to warp three for this one".
And when Kirk subsequently orders "Thataway!", I can see him thinking like a true engineer: "A proper shakedown! Finally! Let's do warp one for two minutes, then cool down, check out all the systems, run a Level One on the primaries and Level Three on the secondaries, compare our notes, then do warp two for two minutes..."
Timo Saloniemi
Not when TMP was released, it wasn't!
All that tells us is that they traveled slower than WF4.5 at the end of TMP
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Of course, this still leaves unused the the leeway of where Archer in fact traveled. To Klaang's homeworld, that much is stated. But what world was that? Archanis IV, perhaps?
Only the Vulcans wanted to ship Klaang all the way to Kronos. And only after he was dead. That was a different mission altogether, and one that Archer scrapped.
Timo Saloniemi
Only the Vulcans wanted to ship Klaang all the way to Kronos. And only after he was dead. That was a different mission altogether, and one that Archer scrapped.
Timo Saloniemi
That would be a lovely solution, if it wasn't for this bit of dialogue in Unexpected:
They also make a 15ly diversion in Broken Bow to visit Rigel and their travel time does not appear adversely affected. Say what you will about the NX-01, that is one zippy ship!
@Novak Senkovic, are you still not getting the "edit" option popping up on your messages? You might need to ask a moderator if so.
Incidentally, you can also click "reply" on more than one message on the page and they will all appear on your text box for you to respond to in turn, if you wish.
They also make a 15ly diversion in Broken Bow to visit Rigel and their travel time does not appear adversely affected. Say what you will about the NX-01, that is one zippy ship!
@Novak Senkovic, are you still not getting the "edit" option popping up on your messages? You might need to ask a moderator if so.
Incidentally, you can also click "reply" on more than one message on the page and they will all appear on your text box for you to respond to in turn, if you wish.
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Still not getting the edit and no I can't click on reply to more than one message as I only have one reply and yes it is a zippy ship.
What you could do is go manual and just copy-paste everything you want to quote, from all across the thread if need be, to "quote" "/quote" brackets. (That is, both "quote" and "/quote" have to be typed inside square brackets, with the actual quote pasted in between.) It's a chore, but OTOH, it also gives you time to think.
As for the High Council Chamber thing, it would be fun to simply accuse T'Pol of lying for propagandist purposes (or of being ignorant of facts Klingon), as that Chamber looks nothing like the structure we learned to know in TNG. Wasn't it supposed to be ancient and all? Or do Klingons just rewrite their history there, too?
Timo Saloniemi
As for the High Council Chamber thing, it would be fun to simply accuse T'Pol of lying for propagandist purposes (or of being ignorant of facts Klingon), as that Chamber looks nothing like the structure we learned to know in TNG. Wasn't it supposed to be ancient and all? Or do Klingons just rewrite their history there, too?
Timo Saloniemi
Are you seeing a row of options along the bottom of the screen, of which edit should be one? There should also be an option that says + Quote, which will allow you to quote more than one post by hitting it on the ones you want to quote. If not, then it might be an issue with whatever browser or system you're using. I'd be glad to pass on more info to AntonyF if there are normal features that aren't showing up right. As mentioned, we're all still learning how XenForo works.
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