Rey in The Force Awakens (Possible Spoilers)

[Finn]

^The Younglings in the clone war still had more training than Luke and Ren ever did.

Rey must be really strong with the force. How the hell did it occur to her to tell the guard what to do? I think she was around a Jedi at a young age before she was left behind. Luke?

 

[DWF]

When Kylo stared into Rey's eyes and she then fought back reminded me of the Yoda/Palpatine duel, when he was using the Force Lightning on Yoda and he merely seemed to focus his eyes and get the upper hand. Rey was just barely surviving up until that point, wounded or not Kylo was hard pressed after that.

 

[Ithekro]

If she is Luke's daughter, than she was around a Jedi as a young age. Perhaps even at the Academy before being set away.

 

[ConRefit79]

This is sounding more like Cadet Kirk being promoted to Captain at the end of Star Trek 2009. Why can't JJ and his team learn that ability and power are earned. And it takes time and experience to earn it.

 

[davejames]

Well it's implied she's heard stories about the fall of the Empire, Jedi etc.. so couldn't one of those stories have included the Jedi's mind trick aility.

Well you don't even have to go back that far. Kylo Ren had just a few minutes earlier tried to use his force powers on her, to get her to reveal the location of the map. Which is probably where she got the idea to try it out on the guard.

And even then, it still took her a few tries to get it right. So it's not like she completely mastered everything she tried right from the start.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

The film really does go out of its way to set the expectation that Rey is Anakin's granddaughter. She's an excellent pilot. She's good at fixing things (always has been ). Is called by Luke's and Anakin's lightsaber. And is very talented with the Force.

So whether she's Luke's daughter (which seems most likely, at this point, anyway) or someone else's ... there's a strong narrative connection between her, Luke, and Anakin. And at this point (and barring some rather fascinating alternative explanation for her abilities), I'd almost be disappointed if she wasn't related to Anakin in some way.

I'd forgotten how frustrating it can be having to wait years for a story to continue.

 

[Makarov]

Leia resisted the mind probe without training, good point, but the movie didn't really focus on that, in fact did the writers even know she was Luke's sister at that point? I would have liked Leia to get more powerful at this point, there's a missed opportunity there. Still there's a huge difference between her having that skill and the perfection this new character displays at every turn.

Luke did train before he could force pull the lightsaber to him. He levitated rocks with Yoda while he was doing a handstand or something like that. (Edit: Actually I'm wrong, he did do it at the beginning hanging upside down. So you might be right that training isn't as necessary to skywalkers as I'd thought... )

 

[Greylock Crescent]

the perfection this new character displays at every turn.

This has already been demonstrated to be a false analysis and statement. You may not agree that the flaws she has and demonstrates are enough to balance her strengths. And, IMO, there's room for that critique. But let's at least do so based on specifics, rather than poor, erroneous over-generalizations.

 

[Makarov]

I have to disagree that what you listed are actually flaws. Running into the woods searching for her destiny isn't a flaw, nor is taking action to create a diversion by releasing the beasts in the ship.

A flaw would be Luke getting his arm chopped off by Vader because he bit off more than he could chew by leaving before training. Or Anakin's anger and vulnerability against the darkside. Or Leia having to rely on a pilot because she's not an expert one herself. Something that actually has negative consequences for the character.

 

[Ithekro]

None of those character flaws show up in their first movie. Those are second movie events. Meaning we'll get Rey's flaws next time around. Three Act play structure and all that.

 

[Makarov]

Hopefully true, or we will just see her power get better and better as she remains the flawless hero? Not sure.

And those are just a couple examples. Han Solo was a selfish opportunist until the very end of the first movie. Luke couldn't match Obi Wan's force powers or light saber abilities at all, he needed guidance. They all kind of relied on each other.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I have to disagree that what you listed are actually flaws. Running into the woods searching for her destiny isn't a flaw, nor is taking action to create a diversion by releasing the beasts in the ship.

A flaw would be Luke getting his arm chopped off by Vader because he bit off more than he could chew by leaving before training. Or Anakin's anger and vulnerability against the darkside. Or Leia having to rely on a pilot because she's not an expert one herself. Something that actually has negative consequences for the character.

If your analysis is that Rey's character is absolutely "perfection ... at every turn," then it's certainly not a thoughtful critique and is little more than a blind, useless assertion. Even worse, it doesn't leave any room for a reasoned discussion or debate about the nature of her character.

Shame, really.

ETA:
I mean, honestly, the claim is that she's "perfect" because she doesn't lose a limb? Come now.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

None of those character flaws show up in their first movie. Those are second movie events. Meaning we'll get Rey's flaws next time around. Three Act play structure and all that.

That's what I was thinking. Going by ANH alone, Luke showed himself to be just as capable as Rey with no real flaws. Suits up in an X-Wing to go against the Death Star because it's just like shooting womprats in my T-16.

 

[Makarov]

I have to disagree that what you listed are actually flaws. Running into the woods searching for her destiny isn't a flaw, nor is taking action to create a diversion by releasing the beasts in the ship.

A flaw would be Luke getting his arm chopped off by Vader because he bit off more than he could chew by leaving before training. Or Anakin's anger and vulnerability against the darkside. Or Leia having to rely on a pilot because she's not an expert one herself. Something that actually has negative consequences for the character.

If your analysis is that Rey's character is absolutely "perfection ... at every turn," then it's certainly not a thoughtful critique and is little more than a blind, useless assertion. Even worse, it doesn't leave any room for a reasoned discussion or debate about the nature of her character.

Shame, really.

You say that but you haven't offered any reason to support that those flaws you listed... aren't really flaws. Meanwhile I'm offering specifics from the movie. You might as well have just said "you're wrong."

Does she sell the droid at the beginning, showing some questionable morals maybe? Nope. Does she need a pilot's help from Han Solo? Not really, she shows him how it's done. Her fighting skills certainly need no help and she can defeat the villain already without a scratch. Is she tempted by an offer from the dark side to train? Not at all.

 

[ConRefit79]

That's what I was thinking. Going by ANH alone, Luke showed himself to be just as capable as Rey with no real flaws. Suits up in an X-Wing to go against the Death Star because it's just like shooting womprats in my T-16.

But it is established in a new hope that Luke was a phenomenal pilot before he meets Obi-Wan. Is it established that Rey has any skills as a pilot? I suppose she could and this is all just left out cause modern films don't like to waste time talking.

 

[Ithekro]

Apparently she built her own speeder we see in the film. It is top heavy and needs skill to drive.

 

[{ Emilia }]

That's what I was thinking. Going by ANH alone, Luke showed himself to be just as capable as Rey with no real flaws. Suits up in an X-Wing to go against the Death Star because it's just like shooting womprats in my T-16.

But it is established in a new hope that Luke was a phenomenal pilot before he meets Obi-Wan. Is it established that Rey has any skills as a pilot? I suppose she could and this is all just left out cause modern films don't like to waste time talking.

Most of her skills (especially the fighting) are explained and make sense considering her biography. She wasn't a farmer living in their uncle's basement like Luke was. Her "perfect" flying skills included scraping the ground with the Falcon quite a few times and it looked quite funny. It was a mix of skill and luck and I suppose the force helped her there.

How come nobody even addressed the stuff I wrote here and here?

It's kind of tedious to have people repeat the same claims over and over instead of addressing the explanations and different opinions. The way this has been going it is not going to lead anywhere.

And I call bullshit on the claim that this isn't also about sexism.

 

[Makarov]

How come nobody even addressed the stuff I wrote here and here?

Sure Rey can be compared to perfect Anakin's flying skills in episode 1, but people generally hate that version of the character. He isn't spared from criticism just for being a male character.

 

[ConRefit79]

That's what I was thinking. Going by ANH alone, Luke showed himself to be just as capable as Rey with no real flaws. Suits up in an X-Wing to go against the Death Star because it's just like shooting womprats in my T-16.

But it is established in a new hope that Luke was a phenomenal pilot before he meets Obi-Wan. Is it established that Rey has any skills as a pilot? I suppose she could and this is all just left out cause modern films don't like to waste time talking.

Most of her skills (especially the fighting) are explained and make sense considering her biography. She wasn't a farmer living in their uncle's basement like Luke was. Her "perfect" flying skills included scraping the ground with the Falcon quite a few times and it looked quite funny. It was a mix of skill and luck and I suppose the force helped her there.

How come nobody even addressed the stuff I wrote here and here?

It's kind of tedious to have people repeat the same claims over and over instead of addressing the explanations and different opinions. The way this has been going it is not going to lead anywhere.

And I call bullshit on the claim that this isn't also about sexism.

The story established Anakin was a very good pod racer when he meets QuiGon. As for the fighter, auto pilot took him to orbit. And he had R2. I took his flying the fighter as dumb luck. And thought it was dumb to put him in it to begin with.

Luke bullseyed Wamp Rats in his T16 on Tatooine. You can see the T-16 in the garage when he's cleaning 3PO and R2.

Neither could use the force beyond prescience. Let alone go up against more than a remote with a Lightsaber.

I have no problem with a woman being the lead Jedi. But the story has to make sense. You cannot go from only thinking of the Force as myth to using it in a few days. That's established. Even Luke could not pull a saber for a few years. And he couldn't even control it well.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I have to disagree that what you listed are actually flaws. Running into the woods searching for her destiny isn't a flaw, nor is taking action to create a diversion by releasing the beasts in the ship.

A flaw would be Luke getting his arm chopped off by Vader because he bit off more than he could chew by leaving before training. Or Anakin's anger and vulnerability against the darkside. Or Leia having to rely on a pilot because she's not an expert one herself. Something that actually has negative consequences for the character.

If your analysis is that Rey's character is absolutely "perfection ... at every turn," then it's certainly not a thoughtful critique and is little more than a blind, useless assertion. Even worse, it doesn't leave any room for a reasoned discussion or debate about the nature of her character.

Shame, really.

You say that but you haven't offered any reason to support that those flaws you listed... aren't really flaws. Meanwhile I'm offering specifics from the movie. You might as well have just said "you're wrong."

Does she sell the droid at the beginning, showing some questionable morals maybe? Nope. Does she need a pilot's help from Han Solo? Not really, she shows him how it's done. Her fighting skills certainly need no help and she can defeat the villain already without a scratch. Is she tempted by an offer from the dark side to train? Not at all.

Your oversimplified comments summarily dismissed every flaw I've (and others) mentioned - including needing help to be rescued from Starkiller base (heck, Rey takes a moment to hug Finn and thank him for coming back for her), instead of actually discussing them.

But that's the problem with such gross generalizations - they only work if one blindly dismisses everything, otherwise, the exceptions ruin the generalization. So instead of an "all or nothing" generalization such as "perfection ... at every turn," or "Mary Sue," let's have comments that actually discuss those moments, such as her rescue from Starkiller base.

Or, for another example, this is a rather reasonable discussion of Rey's flying (Why not try and respond directly to it, instead of summarily dismissing it?):

Most of her skills (especially the fighting) are explained and make sense considering her biography. She wasn't a farmer living in their uncle's basement like Luke was. Her "perfect" flying skills included scraping the ground with the Falcon quite a few times and it looked quite funny. It was a mix of skill and luck and I suppose the force helped her there.