The Walking Dead Season 6 Discussion

[Thestral]

He's not dead; he's ill.

All life is precious... except for those who are suffering so euthanasia is acceptable in certain circumstances.

Not as catchy.

But perfectly consistent. You should put "from terminal illness" after suffering, of course.

I'm also not sure about that grave. As I said earlier, why would Morgan bury him among all the other strangers. Surely you'd bury him closer to the house. In the garden?

He had made a point - his life's work, really - of burying even the walkers in that cemetary and dedicated himself to remembering the dead in that way. Why not bury him among his life's work?

 

[Silvercrest]

Yeah, I'm saying he was ill (infected) before he killed himself. But he still "killed" himself.

I'm also not sure about that grave. As I said earlier, why would Morgan bury him among all the other strangers. Surely you'd bury him closer to the house. In the garden?

Did Morgan walk past it unaware it was there?

Why didn't the guy Eastman starved turn?

I just think there might be more to come regarding Eastman.

I doubt it primarily because all that was still taking place in Georgia and we're now in Virginia. Same answer to the poster that suggested someone from Alexandria would be familiar with Crighton Dallas Wilton: it's certainly possible, but making it a plot point strikes me as horribly contrived.

Note that this is being written by a guy who supports Glenn somehow surviving. Please feel free to take my definition of "contrived" with a grain of salt.

"All life is precious" does not mean "All life is treated as sacred and thou shalt not kill anyone or anything ever again, or else!" It just means that you recognize that every living thing adds something to the world and you don't have any inherent right to take it away. If you do take away a life, there has to be a need. An example would be those cultures who apologize to animals before killing them (and then honoring their sacrifice).

But there would have to be a provable need, not just an excuse. Anything short of that would be hypocrisy from that viewpoint. Euthanizing Eastman (and Carter) is a provable need. Eating animal flesh could be a provable need, but Morgan and Eastman simply chose not to go there.

Killing Wolves just because they're dangerous is not a provable need, if there are other alternatives. Whether right or wrong, Morgan obviously believes there are.

I'm not defending the viewpoint; just representing it and explaining the apparent contradictions. Don't shoot the messenger. (Unless there's provable need, of course. )

 

[hux]

Did they show how he ultimately died? If so, I didn't see it.

He says he's ready and talks about having a gun out there. The implication being that he either shoots himself or Morgan does. Either way, terminally ill life is not so precious.

He was listed as dead in TD.

I mean learning more in flashback. It just seemed like there was something being held back. Something extra. Could be wrong but it just felt like there was more to this than... fat ninja in the woods teaches peace and love.

 

[Morpheus 02]

because Morgan's new philosophy will be important the next time we see him.

Morgan sees himself in the wolf. Consumed by madness and "clearing" whatever is in his path. He thinks these people are lost in the same trauma and can be saved but I think he's kidding himself.

Eastman's philosophy is flawed. "All life is precious." Well correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that include suicide? Either you contradict your beliefs by killing yourself or... Eastman didn't kill himself.

You made me think about that...and I came up with this -- people have to get they're brains smushed when they die. Walkers (or just-about-to-be-a-walker) are not a part of "all life is precious" philosophy, clearly. Now, it's messy to do it with walkers, but necessary, as there are limited bullets.

But with a person you have a friendship with, the gun seems like the least against the philosophy (i.e. you don't have to keep trying to make sure it worked, it's not hard to do, like with a recently dead Walker, you don't have to look them in the eye).

He just wanted to have Morgan make sure Eastman was dead in the least violent way possible.


----
and on a different note...because of the link, I thought the previews were purposely hiding some reveal about Glenn, and well, got hoodwinked. Still, a good episode, and the 90 minutes flew fast.

About how much time did Morgan spend with Eastman? Just wondering how much he really picked up, and how much is kind of an illusion as Morgan has confidence. (And so far, he's only really only fought some crazy low level Wolves).

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm also not sure about that grave. As I said earlier, why would Morgan bury him among all the other strangers. Surely you'd bury him closer to the house. In the garden?

Why not? It was a designated graveyard.

I do find it interesting that Eastman offered Morgan his home with what would be enough power and food to last the rest of his life--only with the caveat that not so nice people might pose a threat to him. That's a problem no matter where he goes, so Morgan should have considered staying there--even if in isolation.

Come to think of it, Eastman's home lasted longer than Woodbury, Terminus and the prison, so it seemed to be the perfect sanctuary.

 

[hux]

Why not? It was a designated graveyard.

For random passing walkers. You'd think Morgan would hold Eastman in higher esteem and give him a more personal touch.

Honestly, I think I'm speculating so much here because the episode didn't really tell me much. Had Morgan just said... "I met a guy in the woods who had experienced something awful and he taught me to appreciate life... oh and how to fight with a stick"... I think we would have learnt just as much as we did from the actual episode.

Truth be told, I'm now coming to the opinion that the episode was entirely filler. Hugely entertaining but not actually telling us anything new or that insightful about Morgan that we couldn't have learnt from two minutes of dialogue.

It probably was what it was.

 

[Silvercrest]

It told us that falafel is easier to make than goat cheese.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I just thought the episode would have worked better if at any point throughout I thought "wow, Morgan and his Kung Fu Master actually have a point. Maybe they're right. Yeah, actually Rick and co have been going about this all wrong the last five years. These guys have cracked it."

It's possible that what they're saying may have value in the future, but at present, yeah it's pretty ignorant. I mean, this guy has mostly been sheltered in the woods for how long? Your belief system works when you're in a secluded cabin in the woods, but not a neighborhood being attacked by strangers. Morgan should really see that, but I'm guessing he might still be kinda crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of his crazy get let out. At least, if he doesn't get killed. Leaving that wolf in that house is foolish and should result in his death since it's the second time he's spared him. Right now we need bandit Carol to come whizzing by with a gun.

Why didn't the guy Eastman starved turn?

I was kinda wondering that too. The cause of everyone turning is unclear though. It's possible that being secluded he was never exposed to it.

I'm also unclear of the timeline. He may have died before the disease abruptly went global. We have no idea how long a crazy Eastman stayed at his cabin before deciding to turn himself in. If he did die before, that might give us evidence that the already dead do not begin to reanimate. I've always been curious about that one in this universe.

Another possibility is that Eastman buried him before he was able to turn.

 

[Silvercrest]

The next question is: does anyone else in Alexandria know about Morgan's prisoner? Implication is they do not.

 

[theenglish]

He's dead regardless, so the precious life has already been lost; thus no contradiction in preventing suffering.

He's not dead; he's ill.

It might've been during TD but I'm pretty sure I saw Morgan walking away from Eastman's graveyard where a new grave had a cross that said "Eastman" on it.

That's right. Eastman was infected. That's why he mentioned the gun. Morgan took him out to die. We don't see if Morgan pulled the trigger or Eastman did, but it was Morgan who buried Eastman and left the marker. That was the symbolism of Morgan's conversion being complete.

I don't know how many literature people are on this board, but for me this reminded me a lot of Of Mice and Men.

Regardless of if all life is sacred, is it better to die a man or a thing?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Honestly, I think I'm speculating so much here because the episode didn't really tell me much. Had Morgan just said... "I met a guy in the woods who had experienced something awful and he taught me to appreciate life... oh and how to fight with a stick"... I think we would have learnt just as much as we did from the actual episode.

The effect is greater when you can see insane Morgan was after season 3. Just saying that does not have the same impact, nor Eastman's entire analysis (of Morgan) and philosophy regarding himself.

It's possible that what they're saying may have value in the future, but at present, yeah it's pretty ignorant. I mean, this guy has mostly been sheltered in the woods for how long? Your belief system works when you're in a secluded cabin in the woods, but not a neighborhood being attacked by strangers.

Remember, ailing Eastman warned Morgan against staying at the house because some no-so-friendly types might show up, so that sounds like he's had his own share of bad experiences. With chaos being the order of the day--and people running in all directions to either find safety, or assault / steal from others, there's no way to imagine Eastman was completely isolated.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I thought it was just a wound he got somehow else and it got infected with normal crap and that's why he needed antibiotics.

It looked like a knife slash or similar to me. Infected now, I suppose. Ends the same if it's not treated.

Well, this was certainly a gripping episode. It was just fascinating to watch Morgan's journey from complete insanity to normal to beginning the road to inner peace. I was pretty surprised when it was revealed that Eastman actually killed his family's murderer (definitely a Kodak moment). What a shame that Eastman had to die. And now we find out that Morgan's captive Wolf has been bitten. And he said "if I die." It seems that he's had the bite for a while-- I wonder if we'll start running into people who are immune to the virus.

Was that a bite though or just an ordinary wound that has gotten infected. He said he was looking for medicine.

For some reason, I thought it was a bite, but I'm probably wrong. Since everyone now alive has some degree of immunity from the virus, since they didn't die of the "flu," I thought it might be interesting if people with a greater degree of immunity-- whose immune systems can actually kill the virus-- started to turn up. It's already been speculated that Rick is immune, and there was Herschel who survived being bitten when they amputated his foot.

 

[Trekker4747]

I thought it was just a wound he got somehow else and it got infected with normal crap and that's why he needed antibiotics.

It looked like a knife slash or similar to me. Infected now, I suppose. Ends the same if it's not treated.

Well, this was certainly a gripping episode. It was just fascinating to watch Morgan's journey from complete insanity to normal to beginning the road to inner peace. I was pretty surprised when it was revealed that Eastman actually killed his family's murderer (definitely a Kodak moment). What a shame that Eastman had to die. And now we find out that Morgan's captive Wolf has been bitten. And he said "if I die." It seems that he's had the bite for a while-- I wonder if we'll start running into people who are immune to the virus.

Was that a bite though or just an ordinary wound that has gotten infected. He said he was looking for medicine.

For some reason, I thought it was a bite, but I'm probably wrong. Since everyone now alive has some degree of immunity from the virus, since they didn't die of the "flu," I thought it might be interesting if people with a greater degree of immunity-- whose immune systems can actually kill the virus-- started to turn up. It's already been speculated that Rick is immune, and there was Herschel who survived being bitten when they amputated his foot.

That's they key thing there. They hacked off his lower leg before the active infection(s) could kill him and the dormant infections everyone has reanimated him. And it seems pretty likely, as it usually is in zombie fiction, that you'd have to do it quickly. Which is why it's very unlikely Rick is infected from the wound he suffered, to say nothing of the production reasons he won't lose his hand or that Kirkman regrets taking off Comic Rick's hand.

Rick's going to be fine, and I suspect it's not due to any "immunity" he has to the "walker virus" or whatever infection everyone has. The hand injury seemed more due to just it happening due to his ambitions in taking out the walkers and maybe play a role in slowing him down a bit; it's just another in a long list of injuries he's suffered.

Everyone on this show has been exposed to gobs and gobs of walker blood, entrails, offal and so forth. The gang were swimming in stagnant water that had walkers in it for untold lengths of time (the Food Bank last season) which is going to be filled with the infections from the walkers and it's unlikely everyone managed to not get some water in their mouths, in a minor cut, or whatever.

Remember, on an injury from a walker you do not die from any "walker virus" they carry you simply die from a nasty, immune system resistant infection. Sort of like getting surgery done at a hospital and there's some minor lapse in contamination control and people get a staph or other infection.

There's a lot of quibbles we could make about this, but it's possible this mundane infection doesn't survive long outside of the walker's body, or outside of any body, and the injury Rick got from the blade was no longer active enough to infect him.

These people are regularly coated in the blood of walkers and survive, where it's getting in their mouth, their eyes, in any cuts, scratches, scrapes, etc. they have and they survive.

Rick is going to be fine.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

These people are regularly coated in the blood of walkers and survive, where it's getting in their mouth, their eyes, in any cuts, scratches, scrapes, etc. they have and they survive.

Rick is going to be fine.

True. Michonne had her face pushed through aquarium glass with active walker heads (and their water), and survived. In the same scene, Michonne used that nasty glass to stab the Governor in the eye, yet a serous wound did not lead to his death/reanimation.

As you say, Rick is going to be fine.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I think Gimple even made a statement to the effect that Rick wouldn't die from that cut. Not that it's necessary. We've seen zombie kills where their blood is spilled all over people's eyes and mouths. It stinks that it has to be so selective that a simple scratch can kill someone, but blood in your eyes wouldn't.

Remember, ailing Eastman warned Morgan against staying at the house because some no-so-friendly types might show up, so that sounds like he's had his own share of bad experiences. With chaos being the order of the day--and people running in all directions to either find safety, or assault / steal from others, there's no way to imagine Eastman was completely isolated.

No, he warned him about staying there because he'd be alone. When he said that Morgan couldn't expect others like him to appear, that was sarcasm, meaning that Morgan was pretty dangerous anyways, and that the cabin was fairly remote.

If Eastman actually met any people, it's hard to believe that if any of them were hostile that they would pick either of his two options. If they stayed, they would kill him, aikido or not. If they left, they'd probably come back to kill him. I think he would've been forced into killing.

The fact that he was ready to go on some journey with Morgan kinda made it seem like Morgan was the first person to come or at least stick around for a while. So I'd say that his experience with large opposing groups is very limited. He is still very withdrawn from what society currently is. His ideals don't work in Alexandria, Woodbury, the prison, Herschel's farm... anywhere.

 

[Trekker4747]

Have we seen someone die/turn from a scratch? And I'm guessing were talking a meaningful, deep, scratch. A scrape. Not a steak of rough skin and red lines in the top layer.

 

[hux]

It's pretty well established that you need to be bitten to recieve the active version of the virus. The problem with that though is explaining why the bite is so integral. It can't be saliva (because the crusty, dried up zombies don't have any) and it can't be blood because characters have got blood and guts in their mouths or in open wounds.

The only explanation appears to be that the active virus concentrates itself in the mouths of the dead once they have turned (for some reason). Meaning that recently bitten people can't pass it on until they're dead (so the cannibals eating Bob wouldn't have made any difference).

 

[sojourner]

Have we seen someone die/turn from a scratch? And I'm guessing were talking a meaningful, deep, scratch. A scrape. Not a steak of rough skin and red lines in the top layer.

Nope, no one has turned from a scratch so far. Just as no one has demonstrated any hint of immunity, contrary to how may times people keep alluding to immunity in this thread.

 

[theenglish]

It's pretty well established that you need to be bitten to recieve the active version of the virus. The problem with that though is explaining why the bite is so integral. It can't be saliva (because the crusty, dried up zombies don't have any) and it can't be blood because characters have got blood and guts in their mouths or in open wounds.

The only explanation appears to be that the active virus concentrates itself in the mouths of the dead once they have turned (for some reason). Meaning that recently bitten people can't pass it on until they're dead (so the cannibals eating Bob wouldn't have made any difference).

This is absolutely the type of geek talk, theorizing about minutiae that makes me proud to be a nerd.

 

[Mojochi]

It's pretty well established that you need to be bitten to recieve the active version of the virus. The problem with that though is explaining why the bite is so integral. It can't be saliva (because the crusty, dried up zombies don't have any) and it can't be blood because characters have got blood and guts in their mouths or in open wounds.

The only explanation appears to be that the active virus concentrates itself in the mouths of the dead once they have turned (for some reason). Meaning that recently bitten people can't pass it on until they're dead (so the cannibals eating Bob wouldn't have made any difference).

I'm not sure if we've seen newly reanimated people infecting others from a bite, but the speed & volume of the initial outbreak that eventually overwhelmed the world, would have to have allowed for a pretty quick turnaround time, to have infected so many so quickly, but yeah. If a living person, who'd been bitten, bit someone, not going to infect them yet

True, no one gets the fatal fever from anything other than a bite, but that need not be saliva based, & it need not even be entirely connected to the reanimation event, but probably is. (They don't turn into a walker when they get bit. They just get a fever & die). Since death is the only prerequisite for reanimation, it's fair to suggest the bite is just a mechanism

I've postulated that it could just be bacterial related, finding a better breeding ground in the largest open cavity in the human body. The human mouth is a very unique natural environment. It's possible that the necrosis in that area of soft tissue is more susceptible to bacterial growth, or specific decay which culminates in higher concentrations of the infectant, which would make sense since walkers crave biting.

It's even possible that the craving to feed is not primarily for the sake of consumption, (Which serves no real nutritional value) but is instead a driving force to spread the infection through the biting mechanism. They crave eating live flesh because that's the best device for how to achieve the needed biting mechanism that more efficiently encourages the spread of the disease

Raising the question... If a walker licked a person's open wound, would they get infected? I'm leaning toward yes. If not, then it's literally infecting from the tooth enamel itself,