Helm was on the right for this pilot. Scotty is sitting at the helm, which was Mitchell's station.
Spock Was First Officer in the Second Pilot
- Thread starter Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Helm was on the right for this pilot. Scotty is sitting at the helm, which was Mitchell's station.
You are right, I stand corrected. Servers me right for relying on my memory and not verifying it first. My apologies Ssosmcin.
Navigator NCC-2120, USS Entente
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Well we saw how things stood at the time of "The Cage," but that about a decade (give or take) before Pike turns over the chair to Kirk. A decade later many of the characters besides Spock might not have even been there anymore. Number One might have already been promoted and given her own command. Spock might already be XO when Kirk takes command.
Then again, this is the very launch of an exciting mission into deep space. For all we know, Kirk has known Spock for all of nine days at this point.
The intriguing thing is that Spock and Mitchell are said to be old friends or colleagues, going back years. That puts interesting dynamic in the events without requiring one to consider the details of military chains of command, ranks or positions.
As for helm or navigation positions, we really don't know if such things existed back in TOS. It's only in TNG "The Battle" that such descriptions are stenciled in to the steering pulpit. Previously, we had people called Helmsman and Navigator, but occasionally also other random officers sitting at those positions - and the pilots neglected to describe even the people, let alone the chairs, in terms that confining.
Then there's this whole "every starship bridge looks different" and "every command crew is differently put together" business running through Star Trek. It really takes special effort to find contradictions or patterns in this...
Timo Saloniemi
In "The Naked Time," Kirk orders Rand to take the helm and sets her down in the chair he was occupying, which is where Sulu normally sits.
So, yeah, yeah, we do know.
That's just Rand being made to sit down in Kirk's place. Doesn't mean any other console (or at least the other one in the same pulpit) wouldn't have been equally good - the point was to get Kirk up and Rand down.
IIRC, we have even seen/heard Spock set a course from his supposed science console once. Sure, it was probably just a writing error, but much of Trek is.
" I know those from your planet aren't suppose to have feelings like we do, Mister Spock, but to talk that way about a man you've worked next to for years is worse than-"
And she should know, being a personnel expert and all. So the question we actually face here is whether Spock and Mitchell ever worked together in a setting that excluded Kirk, or merely under Kirk's command, which gets us all tangled up in how familiar Kirk and Spock really are with each other.
Timo Saloniemi
IIRC, we have even seen/heard Spock set a course from his supposed science console once. Sure, it was probably just a writing error, but much of Trek is.
When Dehner is aghast at Spock saying "forget Michell, consider the monster he'll soon be", her rant is directed specifically at Spock:
" I know those from your planet aren't suppose to have feelings like we do, Mister Spock, but to talk that way about a man you've worked next to for years is worse than-"
And she should know, being a personnel expert and all. So the question we actually face here is whether Spock and Mitchell ever worked together in a setting that excluded Kirk, or merely under Kirk's command, which gets us all tangled up in how familiar Kirk and Spock really are with each other.
Timo Saloniemi
Some "Naked Time" clarifications: Per transcript (and several rewatchings), Kirk has already left the bridge by this point; Spock is the one issuing orders. Also, it isn't Janice Rand that takes over Kirk's place in the command chair.
In addition, per Memory Alpha, the lieutenant in question is actually surnamed Brent rather than Rand. Poor subtitling would lead to the confusion, as would poor hearing.
Let's put it another way: in every episode Sulu was the helmsman, when he took his station, it was the left-hand position. Chekov, when sitting in navigation, sat in the right-side chair.
Sulu's helm position carried over into the movies. With or without a huge white sign, it was clear where the helm/navigation stations were.
Kirk asking Spock to set a course or take the ship to warp one (say, the end of "Dagger of the Mind") was just Kirk being formal, using the chain of command to relay his orders. Spock wasn't setting the course himself. The helmsman did the job.
Let's not be picky for the sake of being picky.
Sulu's helm position carried over into the movies. With or without a huge white sign, it was clear where the helm/navigation stations were.
Kirk asking Spock to set a course or take the ship to warp one (say, the end of "Dagger of the Mind") was just Kirk being formal, using the chain of command to relay his orders. Spock wasn't setting the course himself. The helmsman did the job.
Let's not be picky for the sake of being picky.
My point is that the preliminary script is not authoritative. The fact is there is nothing on-screen to settle this question authoritatively.
I'd just as easily say that there's nothing on screen to suggest Mitchell is first officer. The mention is never made and nothing filmed shows Spock as subordinate to him in any way.
Not on its own and certainly not when viewed in their original airdate order.
But it's always fun to speculate.
Not on its own and certainly not when viewed in their original airdate order.
But it's always fun to speculate.
Some "Naked Time" clarifications: Per transcript (and several rewatchings), Kirk has already left the bridge by this point; Spock is the one issuing orders. Also, it isn't Janice Rand that takes over Kirk's place in the command chair.
In addition, per Memory Alpha, the lieutenant in question is actually surnamed Brent rather than Rand. Poor subtitling would lead to the confusion, as would poor hearing.
You're talking about something else than I was.
What I was talking about:
transcript
screencaps
Sorry, I don't have a time stamp, but it should be clear now.
Some "Naked Time" clarifications: Per transcript (and several rewatchings), Kirk has already left the bridge by this point; Spock is the one issuing orders. Also, it isn't Janice Rand that takes over Kirk's place in the command chair.
In addition, per Memory Alpha, the lieutenant in question is actually surnamed Brent rather than Rand. Poor subtitling would lead to the confusion, as would poor hearing.
You're talking about something else than I was.
What I was talking about:
transcript
screencaps
Sorry, I don't have a time stamp, but it should be clear now.
Thank you for clarifying that. Very much obliged!
I think that either side would actually be able to handle those duties and Uhura even rerouted her communications console controls to the left station. I think there is redundancy in many of the controls to prevent some idiot shooting the controls with a phaser can crippling the whole ship.
But what this has to do with who was the First Officer,....idk
But what this has to do with who was the First Officer,....idk
So...was Spock second officer in the first pilot?
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