Star Trek: Axanar

[Karzak]

Fair enough, though I note you still feel the need to qualify your statement by referencing "non-professional production" (aka "fanfilm"). I really dislike that. I find it insulting to the efforts of the filmmakers involved. Judge films as films. One media. Let the results fall where they may.

And yes, I do realize that most independent/fan projects would come off pretty poorly by that standard. But not all. Certainly not Axanar.

...

Somehow in that editing a quote by Dennis became attributed to Tom Servo.

I think I fixed it. Sorry about that, Dennis! THanks Maurice!

 

[TerryMcIntosh]

So... (I hate to ask, but morbid curiosity has set in) what exactly happens if the funding dries up? All the nuts and bolts have been covered for now (studios secured, construction in progress), so we're in the main chunk of money needed to actually film Axanar. So what happens if there's not enough money forthcoming in the future? If, say "episodes 1 and 2" get funded but money stalls at episode 3, what happens?

Valid question. Although that's highly unlikely, because we're in touch with George Takei to partner with him and his fan base again, which is huge, and we also have two Madison Ave.-type P.R. folks working on getting the word out about the production to all levels of media, including the higher-end/more mainstream type.

I'm an Axanar backer and really looking forward to the film hoping you guys can pull it off, but the above seems a bit dangerous as, if the project hits a high mainstream knowledge level, that could trip the CBS legal team to feel they need to issue you guys a C&D to demonstrate due diligence in enforcing/protecting their Star Trek Copyrights/trademarks and IP rights.
^^^
Isn't that something of a concern to you guys or is there some tacit agreement from CBS on this?

In the end CBS can C&D any effort that they choose to, with or without cause. All they'd have to do to shut one production down is type up a one page note and affix a stamp. That said, Axanar absolutely respects CBS in all things and follows their guidance and rules to the letter and in good faith. To directly answer your question, no, we don't sit around worrying that CBS is going to shut us down, but only because we're very careful to play with respect in their sandbox, so that we don't give them a reason to.

CBS is hyper-aware of Axanar and no doubt watches us, and every fan film, very closely, and their decisions will be respected no matter what they might be. Of course, we're hoping that they're (at least unofficially) proud of the fan film movement, and Axanar in particular, because I'm sure that they know that we do what we do with true passion and deep love for the franchise that they own. =)

 

[Barbreader]

[Terry Stuff for the last couple of pages. NO, you just read it, I'm not quoting it.]

I'm glad to hear that you have, not only George Takei on board again, but some advertising power. I am reminding my friends who officially love Trek and hate fan films (except... each has a few ones they like) that if they want a Blu-ray for Axanar, they have to take the change and donate NOW, there will be no later.

I wouldn't post this on Facebook (not that the Trek BBS is exactly private, but we're all Trekkies here) but I confess that goal, over 1.3 million, has me worried. I will be doing a Headline for your Indiegogo when I have a pause in releases, and I was just as glad to hold off a bit, since I can now also link to a few articles as well as the film and Prelude to Axanar.

I deeply and truly hope this film can be completed. And I hope it does all of your careers some good going forward.

 

[Red Omega]

On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

What qualifies it is "non-professional" in your mind? Every member of the Axanar cast and crew on the shoot was a paid professional, with expertise and experience working in Hollywood. They were all paid for the shoot, no volunteers. Sounds pretty professional to me.

 

[TerryMcIntosh]

[Terry Stuff for the last couple of pages. NO, you just read it, I'm not quoting it.]

I'm glad to hear that you have, not only George Takei on board again, but some advertising power. I am reminding my friends who officially love Trek and hate fan films (except... each has a few ones they like) that if they want a Blu-ray for Axanar, they have to take the change and donate NOW, there will be no later.

I wouldn't post this on Facebook (not that the Trek BBS is exactly private, but we're all Trekkies here) but I confess that goal, over 1.3 million, has me worried. I will be doing a Headline for your Indiegogo when I have a pause in releases, and I was just as glad to hold off a bit, since I can now also link to a few articles as well as the film and Prelude to Axanar.

I deeply and truly hope this film can be completed. And I hope it does all of your careers some good going forward.

You make valid points and that is a valid concern, Barb. In the end we'll raise what we raise and no more, and the best we can do is put it out there in the most sincere and heartfelt manner, not to mention partnering with those with perhaps greater social and print media reach as we are doing, to help further the goal of full funding.

In the end there's no reason to worry, because the film will be made one way or the other. We'd prefer to not come back to the bucket later if the goal isn't met now, but if we have to then we will. That, of course, is completely up to Alec, since Axanar is his ship and we are the able and willing crew that are ready to make those goals a reality.

Also, we have some for-profit initiatives in the works at the overall studio level, which don't conflict or would cause concern with CBS, that may also help being in revenue from efforts that have nothing to do with CBS IP -- Ares Digital, our forthcoming fulfillment platform which will be a BackerKit competitor, and that sort of thing.

Even if I have to start hooking my tired carcass on the street corner (that's a scary thought for many reasons), or selling plasma at the blood bank every week, we're going to make this happen and failure is NOT an option. =)

 

[Ithekro]

I seem to remember someone telling me that an episode of the old Battlestar Galactica cost on average about $1.3 million an episode. But back in 1978 it was the most expensive show on the air. For the same cost, plus what has been gathered in the previous Kickstarters, Axanar seems to be attempting to do a film for less than that (as that as $1.3 million back in 1978). But technology had improved. I can't guess what the difference in paycheck would be for Richard Hatch between that 1978 show and Axanar.

 

[Karzak]

On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

What qualifies it is "non-professional" in your mind? Every member of the Axanar cast and crew on the shoot was a paid professional, with expertise and experience working in Hollywood. They were all paid for the shoot, no volunteers. Sounds pretty professional to me.

I can only speak for myself, but it's apparent to me that this is a nonprofessional production in several capacities.

From the presentation of the Vulcan scene (with things like those "camera shakes" discussed here in this thread) but more importantly simply by virtue of the fact that it's still a fan film. Hollywood professionals don't cobble together to make movies using other companies' intellectual property. This is a film made by fans first and foremost, and starring a fan who before this film was not a professional actor.

None of this is an indictment or a negative in my opinion, just a pragmatic look at your question. It'd be easy to also point a finger at the financing of the production as problematic, or at the very least concerning, but I don't know enough to comment on that.

If I were someone associated with the production however I wouldn't hung up on this "fan film vs. indie film vs. professional film" nonsense. It's a waste of time; until CBS comes out an announces it's making Axanar itself, Axanar is always going to be a fan film.

Instead, I'd take Dennis' comment as high praise - he's saying Axanar has achieved a look similar to what one of the professional series (in this case Enterprise) had done on a regular basis a decade ago. Not many fan films can make the same claim.

 

[TerryMcIntosh]

On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

What qualifies it is "non-professional" in your mind? Every member of the Axanar cast and crew on the shoot was a paid professional, with expertise and experience working in Hollywood. They were all paid for the shoot, no volunteers. Sounds pretty professional to me.

I can only speak for myself, but it's apparent to me that this is a nonprofessional production in several capacities.

From the presentation of the Vulcan scene (with things like those "camera shakes" discussed here in this thread) but more importantly simply by virtue of the fact that it's still a fan film. Hollywood professionals don't cobble together to make movies using other companies' intellectual property. This is a film made by fans first and foremost, and starring a fan who before this film was not a professional actor.

None of this is an indictment or a negative in my opinion, just a pragmatic look at your question. It'd be easy to also point a finger at the financing of the production as problematic, or at the very least concerning, but I don't know enough to comment on that.

If I were someone associated with the production however I wouldn't hung up on this "fan film vs. indie film vs. professional film" nonsense. It's a waste of time; until CBS comes out an announces it's making Axanar itself, Axanar is always going to be a fan film.

Instead, I'd take Dennis' comment as high praise - he's saying Axanar has achieved a look similar to what one of the professional series (in this case Enterprise) had done on a regular basis a decade ago. Not many fan films can make the same claim.

We'll certainly agree to disagree there. Industry professionals by training and work produced is not the same as an effort not having the ability to earn profit due to licensing restrictions. Film and television professionals, including Emmy and Oscar winners and nominees, are the vast majority of the Axanar crew. The fact that they may be volunteering their time, or working at a significantly reduced rate due to their passion for the project, does not make it less professional than a for-profit effort. Nor does having a substantially lower budget cause an effort to be any less professional than an effort with an enormous budget. Any comparison between budget/licensing and the credentials of those creating the work is a false equivalency.

 

[Tom]

On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

What qualifies it is "non-professional" in your mind? Every member of the Axanar cast and crew on the shoot was a paid professional, with expertise and experience working in Hollywood. They were all paid for the shoot, no volunteers. Sounds pretty professional to me.

That's wrong Red Omega. While there are professionals in the crew, it's certainly not 100% professional.

'Professionals' are people that have done jobs in industry related TV and film productions. If I were to IMDB everyone one on the Axanar crew, how many would I find that fit that criteria?

Well let's start at the top, Alec himself (acting in the lead role) has only been in 2 film shorts and a short appearance on New Voyages. Terry, beyond Axanar, you have only been involved with Blade of Honor, and independent internet series being worked on this year. I could go on with other people on the crew , but you get my point.

As Terry mentioned, volunteering their time, or getting paid at a reduced rate, has nothing to do with be professional.

Claiming to be the first 'fully' professional production is not correct. STR has several professionals on the crew (since one of my jobs is HR, I know them all), but we are never claimed to be 'fully' professional, we had volunteers help to. Indeed, I will do a comparison once Axanar is shot and the crew listed out of curiosity.

I should note that while many people working on these productions have not been attached to any major industry related projects. Many are very professional at the particular jobs they do and will hopefully break thru in the industry someday.

 

[Karzak]

Terry, I still don't see how any of that changes the fact that it's still a fan film?

 

[BigJake]

Dude. Weren't you just talking about not getting hung up on semantics like a couple of sentences ago?

 

[northstar]

It is not. Axanar is a fan film - with the highest rate of professionals ever in fan films. Would they not have chosen to do Trek, they would not be called fan film, but just an independent production, like lots of others. And the other difference might be that they actually pay their crew as far as I know, which of course is a big difference to other fan films in terms of needed budget.

But this discussion whether it is a fan film or not is pretty pointless. It does not change the content of the outcome one bit.

 

[Karzak]

It is not. Axanar is a fan film - with the highest rate of professionals ever in fan films. Would they not have chosen to do Trek, they would not be called fan film, but just an independent production, like lots of others. And the other difference might be that they actually pay their crew as far as I know, which of course is a big difference to other fan films in terms of needed budget.

Exactly. Stating this however does not constitute an attack on Axanar. It's a simple fact.

Terry draws the line at the production not being able to earn a profit being different from being considered a professional production. Myself, I've seen every fan film group out there throw around the word 'professional' as if it's some get out jail free card, when most don't really seem to understand what it means.

I am glad to see so many people from the shows on board with this production, and I'm glad there's the money for the professionals hired to work on it to pay them... but that doesn't mean it still isn't a fan film, nor does it change the fact that it's a fan film being paid for by the fans.

As North Star pointed out, if it were an original script with content Peters or Burnett had created themselves, it'd be an independent film. As it is, this is a fan film. To me, that's different from a professional film.

But this discussion whether it is a fan film or not is pretty pointless. It does not change the content of the outcome one bit.

Agreed. I apologize if my comment has distracted the discussion here; Red Omega's question to Dennis got me thinking and insomniac that I am, I couldn't resist putting my thoughts out there.

 

[Tom]

Many of the terms used are for the purpose of marketing. The terms are valid in there usage just spun to help with the goals that are set.

'Independent Star Trek Film' = Without involvement of the trademark holder the film is a fan film, made by fans, funded by fans.

'Professional' = Meant to tell you it will be a higher quality fan film because many professional actors and crew are involved.

Being in marketing myself I know I have used these terms and many more. Smart people will generally read through the lines and know what is what however.

 

[TerryMcIntosh]

Terry, I still don't see how any of that changes the fact that it's still a fan film?

It doesn't. Not in the slightest. A fan film can be made by professional filmmakers and crew, just as they can be made by a couple of buddies with a discount camera and a $20 budget. The difference between the two, or even on that spectrum, is the perceived quality of the result and the expertise of the talent behind it. But, with that said, a great fan film is surely still a fan film, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't qualify as a professional production. The ability (or lack thereof) to profit =/= not professional, just as fan film =/= low quality.

 

[Tom]

Terry, I still don't see how any of that changes the fact that it's still a fan film?

It doesn't. Not in the slightest. A fan film can be made by professional filmmakers and crew, just as they can be made by a couple of buddies with a discount camera and a $20 budget. The difference between the two, or even on that spectrum, is the perceived quality of the result and the expertise of the talent behind it. But, with that said, a great fan film is surely still a fan film, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't qualify as a professional production. The ability (or lack thereof) to profit =/= not professional, just as fan film =/= low quality.

A valid point Terry. Key word here is 'quality', that's all it's really about, the other points (fan film) are a fact that can't be changed.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

As North Star pointed out, if it were an original script with content Peters or Burnett had created themselves, it'd be an independent film. As it is, this is a fan film. To me, that's different from a professional film.

In that sense, yes, but I read Terry's comment as saying it is a "professional QUALITY" film. Slightly different word use.

I consider myself a professional even though I work for a non-profit. I would still consider myself a professional if I was a millionaire and worked for free. Being a "fan film" is a distinction in a different sense in that its legal standing and end goals are different from a for-profit production (and thus so are its resources), but professionalism tends to be defined more along individual terms IMO.

To be clear: for a lot of people "professional" as distinct from "amateur" rather than "volunteer."

 

[Indysolo]

From the Indiegogo page; "Axanar feels like Star Trek because it is made by two of the biggest Star Trek fans in the world..."

Ergo, it's a fan film, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Neil

 

[Karzak]

From the Indiegogo page; "Axanar feels like Star Trek because it is made by two of the biggest Star Trek fans in the world..."

Ergo, it's a fan film, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Neil

 

[JarodRussell]

Professional, schmofessional. The sex you have with your girlfriend is better than the sex you have with a prostitute.