Star Trek: Axanar

[Ithekro]

the point is just cos its not made by paramount or whatever does not mean AXanar will not be as good.
The way "fan film" is used by some is like it is a snide belittling comment.

In the past sixty pages I've been following this thread, I have not seen ANYONE use the term "fan film" in anything resembling a snide, belittling way. Quite the opposite, in fact, nearly everyone who pointed this out did so in its DEFENSE, as if the fact that it's a fan film excuses the minor imperfections in its visual effects (which, IMO, it does).

In fact, I can't even say I've seen anyone deride Axanar AT ALL. Even the harshest criticisms in this thread have all been constructive in nature, by people sharing ideas on what they hope to see and comparing notes on personal taste.

Whatever it is you're constantly railing against, it's not something that's happening in this thread.

You do know imperfections, mistaken or deliberate are not confined to fan films.

Look at the lens flares in abrams movies

That is all you got out of that? Turn a positive into a negative. Why? The point was in support of Axanar, yet all you managed to find was a way to twist it into a negative and then bring up a motion picture for no good reason.

Again, why? Wouldn't it be better to know that thread agrees that Axanar is being done on a high level within budget limits, and that any problems will likely be overlooked because of the limited budget? The term "fan film" is not being used as a negative, it is being used as a means of identification and is a fact. Though in some regards I consider the context of fan film to incorporate something like Space Battleship Yamato 2199, even though it was a full on professionally budgeted animated series. It was done by fans of the older show, and it shows it was does by fans that get it. It is probably by far, the best remake series I've ever seen. Axanar is done by fan, professionally. The major difference to Hollywood is the amount of money used. That is all.

 

[BillJ]

That is all you got out of that? Turn a positive into a negative. Why? The point was in support of Axanar, yet all you managed to find was a way to twist it into a negative and then bring up a motion picture for no good reason.

Might as well save the keystrokes, gazomg has nailed himself to a cross and thrown away the only claw hammer around.

 

[Mudd]

You find two characters discussing events that are about to doom free civilization throughout an entire quadrant of the galaxy "dull"?

If something's written in a dull fashion it doesn't matter what it's about. All of this is pretty ephemeral fiction at best. Galactic empires crumble; film at 11:00.

In any event, I didn't call the scene dull - nor did I mean to characterize it as something that fit within the Enterprise fictional time period of the 22nd century, although both may well be true. What I meant was that this scene could be incorporated into the Enterprise television series somewhere - the content, the tone, the visuals, the performances - and blend perfectly into the show. On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

 

[Trekkin]

God yes. If there's one thing Star Trek has shown us, it's that even the most interesting concepts can be screwed by terrible execution.

But as always, I'm optimistic. Life's a freaking happy song, one way or the other.

 

[Amaris]

God yes. If there's one thing Star Trek has shown us, it's that even the most interesting concepts can be screwed by terrible execution.

But as always, I'm optimistic. Life's a freaking happy song, one way or the other.

This statement matches your avatar perfectly.

 

[BillJ]

If Axanar is good, it'll be another entertaining piece of the franchise, if it's bad then I'll have burned a couple hours watching it. Not exactly a bad proposition.

 

[Amaris]

If Axanar is good, it'll be another entertaining piece of the franchise, if it's bad then I'll have burned a couple hours watching it. Not exactly a bad proposition.

Considering how valuable my time is (or at the very least how much I value it), Axanar better be awesome. *shakes fist*

 

[gazomg]

If Axanar is good, it'll be another entertaining piece of the franchise, if it's bad then I'll have burned a couple hours watching it. Not exactly a bad proposition.

I firmly believe it will be good and will be more than just an entertaining piece of the franchise,
If the movie is on a par with prelude it could be my favorite film yet, as I was never a big fan in general of all the movies.

Of course it could turn out to be a major let down and be as bad as some of the other movies.

We live in hope.

 

[JES]

... I also didn't like the fact that there were only ships based off of the designs used in the past two movies.
The Saladin and Baton Rouge class should also have had important roles in the fleet at the time.

If it were up to me, I'd also have tried to get some of Masao's designs in there as well, since he as quite a few contemporary designs.

I think that the scene were the Ares comes in and starts fighting the Klingon ships should've been escorted by a couple of Loknar and Larson class ships as well, since this would've been a major tip of the hat to FASA.

And I would've just interpreted newer designs like the Ares, Loknar, and Larson classes...

All of that would mean nothing to 99% of their potential audience.

Ships are nice. Story is better.

I don't see why we can't have both.

I'm not asking for all of these, maybe just the Saladin, Larson, Loknar, and the Baton Rouge, since those are prevalent in fanon, or at least some of those.

I see those playing an active role in the war, and appearing among the fleet in battle scenes.

I saw the initial film some time ago, but only found this thread recently.

Some of the problems that I had with the film was the Korolev getting blasted without even fighting back, and depicting the Federation as completely helpless to the Klingon's assault.

I would've interpreted it as a case of Starfleet's patrols being outnumbered and outgunned during the initial engagements on the border, and by the time Starfleet got enough ships to launch a counter attack, the Klingons had a foothold.

I also didn't like the fact that there were only ships based off of the designs used in the past two movies.
The Saladin and Baton Rouge class should also have had important roles in the fleet at the time.

If it were up to me, I'd also have tried to get some of Masao's designs in there as well, since he as quite a few contemporary designs.

I think that the scene were the Ares comes in and starts fighting the Klingon ships should've been escorted by a couple of Loknar and Larson class ships as well, since this would've been a major tip of the hat to FASA.

And I would've just interpreted newer designs like the Ares, Loknar, and Larson classes as being a means to regain momentum. The older contemporary starship classes at the time would just have to have held the line until they were launched.

Some folks misinterpret the scene in toward the beginning of Prelude to Axanar that shows a Klingon ship following the single-nacelled Federation ship in to the asteroid field. It wasn't that one shot took the Federation ship out. It was that there was an unseen exchange and the Federation ship tried to get a bit of cover and even the odds a bit by going in to the asteroid field. Sadly it didn't work, as we saw on screen. Logically, most folks work that out, because on equal footing, or at least close odds, why would any ship venture in to an asteroid field if not for tactical benefit. =)

Our thought process is that the Federation simply wasn't prepared, either through lack of intel or simply not being able to keep up in the starship inventory department, for a Klingon assault of proper magnitude. Also, Klingons are warriors, rather grumpy, and constantly train for battle and even engage in battle with other species beyond the Federation. So, using that logic, our thought process is that the Federation didn't possess as many strategic or battle tested captains, so those poor souls were picked off early in the war which left only the captains that survived due to superior tactical knowledge.

As for the 2009 film's opening scene, which is prime universe canon, opening the door to a new or update ship design aesthetic, I believe that I've covered this in a previous post. But, the short version is that when Axanar was in the fetal stages of development, the early team was working out a way to bridge the gap between the more modern aesthetic of Enterprise, and the retro/simple/smooth aesthetic of TOS. When the 2009 film happened that problem was solved with the Kelvin, and the other older classes shown once the timeline skewed to the JJverse. Could we have gone TOS retro designs? Sure. Did we want to? No. The Connie in TOS will be the proper TOS canon design, and Tobias' mesh of that ship class is frickin' brilliant in detail, but we really didn't want to be pigeon holed in to being stuck with a 50 year old view of what the future might look like and we're actually rather pleased that the 2009 film opened up the doors that it did. =)

I guess I sort of understand your logic, but I don't completely agree with it. If I were the commanding officer, and knew my ship was about to be blown to kingdom come, I'd fire off a few last shots in defiance. To me, those aft torpedo tubes looked like they were itching to be fired.

And like I said, I don't see why you can't have a diverse fleet consisting of both Kelvin-type designs, and a few of the older semi-canon designs. There is also the possibility of early-run Saladin class Destroyers looking like the Avery class/Kelvin without the engineering pod (which were later refitted after the war).
The Loknar and Larson class on the other hand could be offshoots of the Ares, seeing as how the Ares looks like she is intended to be a predecessor to the Constitution.

 

[Trekkin]

They just didn't want to man. When it's their baby and their primary goal is not commercial or necessarily gathering praise, then their 'vision' is all that matters.

 

[Phantom]

As far as performances go, all we've seen is people talking. I'm not ready to nominate anyone for an Oscar or Emmy yet.

You do know that that is how actors perform...by talking...

Those weren't imperfections in the slightest. YOU may not personally like them, but they were a completely deliberate choice by the filmmaker, and also a stylistic artifact of shooting with anamorphic lenses.

It's 100% choice in Abrams' case. Camera operators and cinematographers are trained to reduce or eliminate flares unless they're instructed to do otherwise.

Not only does Abrams tell his to not avoid flares, he makes MORE flares by shining flashlights into the lens. He can be seen doing this in the bonus materials for his first Trek film.

You find two characters discussing events that are about to doom free civilization throughout an entire quadrant of the galaxy "dull"?

I didn't call the scene dull

I don't think I was specifically referring to you there...I know someone did use that word and I was replying to them. If I cross attributed that to you in error I apologize.

- nor did I mean to characterize it as something that fit within the Enterprise fictional time period of the 22nd century, although both may well be true. What I meant was that this scene could be incorporated into the Enterprise television series somewhere - the content, the tone, the visuals, the performances - and blend perfectly into the show. On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

Fair enough, though I note you still feel the need to qualify your statement by referencing "non-professional production" (aka "fanfilm"). I really dislike that. I find it insulting to the efforts of the filmmakers involved. Judge films as films. One media. Let the results fall where they may.

And yes, I do realize that most independent/fan projects would come off pretty poorly by that standard. But not all. Certainly not Axanar.

 

[Noname Given]

So... (I hate to ask, but morbid curiosity has set in) what exactly happens if the funding dries up? All the nuts and bolts have been covered for now (studios secured, construction in progress), so we're in the main chunk of money needed to actually film Axanar. So what happens if there's not enough money forthcoming in the future? If, say "episodes 1 and 2" get funded but money stalls at episode 3, what happens?

Valid question. Although that's highly unlikely, because we're in touch with George Takei to partner with him and his fan base again, which is huge, and we also have two Madison Ave.-type P.R. folks working on getting the word out about the production to all levels of media, including the higher-end/more mainstream type.

I'm an Axanar backer and really looking forward to the film hoping you guys can pull it off, but the above seems a bit dangerous as, if the project hits a high mainstream knowledge level, that could trip the CBS legal team to feel they need to issue you guys a C&D to demonstrate due diligence in enforcing/protecting their Star Trek Copyrights/trademarks and IP rights.
^^^
Isn't that something of a concern to you guys or is there some tacit agreement from CBS on this?

 

[Tom Servo]

Fair enough, though I note you still feel the need to qualify your statement by referencing "non-professional production" (aka "fanfilm"). I really dislike that. I find it insulting to the efforts of the filmmakers involved. Judge films as films. One media. Let the results fall where they may.

And yes, I do realize that most independent/fan projects would come off pretty poorly by that standard. But not all. Certainly not Axanar.

Only you are finding it insulting, and I don't think anyone is going change their argument because you think that is a degrading comment, when even the projects filmmakers who have appeared in this thread have no issue with it.

I'm sorry, no one is judging this the same way they will a big budget Hollywood production. It's two completely different playing fields, with different considerations about the final product in each case. It's not an insulting observation, it's a factual one. I don't understand why you are on this one man crusade to make sure that no one dare insult these filmmakers, when in reality, no one in this thread is.

 

[Karzak]

nor did I mean to characterize it as something that fit within the Enterprise fictional time period of the 22nd century, although both may well be true. What I meant was that this scene could be incorporated into the Enterprise television series somewhere - the content, the tone, the visuals, the performances - and blend perfectly into the show. On a technical level, if nothing else, I think that's a good achievement for a nonprofessional production.

Fair enough, though I note you still feel the need to qualify your statement by referencing "non-professional production" (aka "fanfilm"). I really dislike that. I find it insulting to the efforts of the filmmakers involved. Judge films as films. One media. Let the results fall where they may.

And yes, I do realize that most independent/fan projects would come off pretty poorly by that standard. But not all. Certainly not Axanar.

 

[Karzak]

Fair enough, though I note you still feel the need to qualify your statement by referencing "non-professional production" (aka "fanfilm"). I really dislike that. I find it insulting to the efforts of the filmmakers involved. Judge films as films. One media. Let the results fall where they may.

And yes, I do realize that most independent/fan projects would come off pretty poorly by that standard. But not all. Certainly not Axanar.

Only you are finding it insulting, and I don't think anyone is going change their argument because you think that is a degrading comment, when even the projects filmmakers who have appeared in this thread have no issue with it.

I'm sorry, no one is judging this the same way they will a big budget Hollywood production. It's two completely different playing fields, with different considerations about the final product in each case. It's not an insulting observation, it's a factual one. I don't understand why you are on this one man crusade to make sure that no one dare insult these filmmakers, when in reality, no one in this thread is.

Agreed.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Sorry... just couldn't resist...

 

[Karzak]

Whether Emerson said it or not, the point of the quote still applies. Phantom, like some others in the fan film world, could stand to develop a thicker skin, I think, and realize that contradiction is not the same thing as persecution.

 

[Maurice]

DELETED BECAUSE PROBLEM FIXED.

 

[Mudd]

Fair enough, though I note you still feel the need to qualify your statement by referencing "non-professional production" (aka "fanfilm"). I really dislike that.

You're welcome to dislike it.

BTW, I don't "feel the need" to do any such thing. I choose to do so, in order to acknowledge the extent of their accomplishment. Were this to be judged against the professional television product of any Hollywood studio the most that could be said of it is that it's as competently put together as one would expect.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Whether Emerson said it or not, the point of the quote still applies. Phantom, like some others in the fan film world, could stand to develop a thicker skin, I think, and realize that contradiction is not the same thing as persecution.

It goes beyond the fan film world.

"Stop trying to shut me up" is becoming a mantra.