I just realized my joke fell flat because it reads like another Skrull (or Super-Skrull reference). Suffice it to say the intent was ... a little different. After all, "nothing's impossible, man!"
Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)
- Thread starter Trekker4747
- Start date
I just realized my joke fell flat because it reads like another Skrull (or Super-Skrull reference). Suffice it to say the intent was ... a little different. After all, "nothing's impossible, man!"
Okay it's almost 40 years late, but I think it's wrong.
Impossible Man cloned himself.
The clone was a woman.
Then they had babies.
If you want to #### your clone, that's not a deal breaker, but for gods sake use contraception.
Impossible Man cloned himself.
The clone was a woman.
Then they had babies.
If you want to #### your clone, that's not a deal breaker, but for gods sake use contraception.
Hey, those people were majorly inbred to start with. They had pointy heads!
Not the best episode ever. It kind of took me back to the bad old days of the HYDRA reveal, when everyone had to act out of character for it to work. So Theta Protocol is a heli-carrier. That's cool, but why keep it a secret from May? There's no reason why she couldn't, and shouldn't, have known about it. And now May is back to her forced conflict with Coulson mode. And we have a mole who betrayed the team-- at least it only took one episode this time, and you could see it coming a mile away (unless you work for SHIELD).
Mack, at least, wasn't out of character in leaving, but I was disappointed anyway. I really wanted him to reconcile with Fitz and stay with the team. Maybe it will still happen, but I imagine that a war with the Inhumans will only convince him that he was right.
And it looks like Jiaying is even crazier than Cal. Did she conspire with him to get him on the quinjet, or trick him, knowing that he'd go berserk when he found out that she had been "shot by Gonzalez?" In any case, very disappointing again, because once again Skye is betrayed by family-- although it looks like she will take their side against SHIELD next week. Hopefully that's a red herring.
And Gonzalez turned out to be a dud. The Big Man who took away the directorship from Coulson with his hard-line attitude and superior resources suddenly concedes because of off-screen events in a movie and then is unceremoniously killed off. So much for that plot.
Hopefully the finale will be better.
Mack, at least, wasn't out of character in leaving, but I was disappointed anyway. I really wanted him to reconcile with Fitz and stay with the team. Maybe it will still happen, but I imagine that a war with the Inhumans will only convince him that he was right.
And it looks like Jiaying is even crazier than Cal. Did she conspire with him to get him on the quinjet, or trick him, knowing that he'd go berserk when he found out that she had been "shot by Gonzalez?" In any case, very disappointing again, because once again Skye is betrayed by family-- although it looks like she will take their side against SHIELD next week. Hopefully that's a red herring.
And Gonzalez turned out to be a dud. The Big Man who took away the directorship from Coulson with his hard-line attitude and superior resources suddenly concedes because of off-screen events in a movie and then is unceremoniously killed off. So much for that plot.
Hopefully the finale will be better.
I'm sorry. Was that old? That looked old.
Mack did mention that he was going to the carrier to pick up his things first. And, well, there just happens to be an alien something of interest on the carrier.
The show's definitely in a tough position, if they tie into the movie, then fans complain that the show is beholden to the movie (as with the criticism about how season one was just "spinning its wheels" until the events of Winter Soldier happened). If they don't tie in, then people are upset, because it was expected.
Same problem with spoiling things with the movie (I advised a friend I have who watches, but didn't get to see Ultron to hold off on watching the episode, since it does spoil the Helicarrier's appearance, which is minor, but still something that works best if you see the movie first). If they tie directly in, like last year, those who don't see the movie opening weekend are spoiled (I was in that group last year). If they don't tie in, those of us who saw it opening weekend are disappointed that we didn't get a cool tie-in as a "reward" for seeing it opening weekend. Yes, I'm a fanboy, so I want it both ways.
At first, I was upset that DC movies and TV were going in different directions. Now, I'm happy that The Flash and Arrow will continue without being interfered with by the movies. That way these shows (as well as Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow) can be their own thing, create their own mythos, and continue on, without worrying about coinciding with a film.
Plus, there's always the hope that we get more than time travel with Flash, we get multiversal travel, allowing the show(s) to crossover with the movies.
Same problem with spoiling things with the movie (I advised a friend I have who watches, but didn't get to see Ultron to hold off on watching the episode, since it does spoil the Helicarrier's appearance, which is minor, but still something that works best if you see the movie first). If they tie directly in, like last year, those who don't see the movie opening weekend are spoiled (I was in that group last year). If they don't tie in, those of us who saw it opening weekend are disappointed that we didn't get a cool tie-in as a "reward" for seeing it opening weekend. Yes, I'm a fanboy, so I want it both ways.
At first, I was upset that DC movies and TV were going in different directions. Now, I'm happy that The Flash and Arrow will continue without being interfered with by the movies. That way these shows (as well as Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow) can be their own thing, create their own mythos, and continue on, without worrying about coinciding with a film.
Plus, there's always the hope that we get more than time travel with Flash, we get multiversal travel, allowing the show(s) to crossover with the movies.
The show's definitely in a tough position, if they tie into the movie, then fans complain that the show is beholden to the movie (as with the criticism about how season one was just "spinning its wheels" until the events of Winter Soldier happened). If they don't tie in, then people are upset, because it was expected.
Same problem with spoiling things with the movie (I advised a friend I have who watches, but didn't get to see Ultron to hold off on watching the episode, since it does spoil the Helicarrier's appearance, which is minor, but still something that works best if you see the movie first). If they tie directly in, like last year, those who don't see the movie opening weekend are spoiled (I was in that group last year). If they don't tie in, those of us who saw it opening weekend are disappointed that we didn't get a cool tie-in as a "reward" for seeing it opening weekend. Yes, I'm a fanboy, so I want it both ways.
At first, I was upset that DC movies and TV were going in different directions. Now, I'm happy that The Flash and Arrow will continue without being interfered with by the movies. That way these shows (as well as Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow) can be their own thing, create their own mythos, and continue on, without worrying about coinciding with a film.
Plus, there's always the hope that we get more than time travel with Flash, we get multiversal travel, allowing the show(s) to crossover with the movies.
While it's true that someone will always complain no matter what they do, I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as you say. The Hydra tie-in worked really well, imo, and yes, people complained about the earlier episodes spinning their wheels, but that was a problem with those episodes not being strong enough to grab people without an overarching story, not with the tie-in. We all know the show (like most tv shows, incidentally) had a rocky start, and there's actually no reason to think it would've been so much better even if they weren't planning a tie-in.
The problem with this tie-in, though, is that it's neither here nor there. It changes the storyline of the show, but it does so in a single conversation about events that have already happened without even showing a single clip of what Ultron did. The Hydra reveal worked because we got to see the other side of what happened inside SHIELD. Using the events of Age of Ultron as an excuse to instantly change the course of the show without even attempting to show any of those events within the show just feels lame and lazy. Especially after spending so much time building up Theta protocol, and then it turns out it's just a helicarrier which you don't even get to see any of the characters' reactions to - Talk about a complete waste of effort...
Drop an EMP before you start, block anything communicationy that's shielded, pay off any witnesses while explaining what a black site is.
Some Wars are Secret.
I suspect that the dialed-back nature of this tie-in compared to the one with TWS last year owes to some combination of (a) not wanting to spoil the movie as badly as they did then, and (b) a plot about an averted killer robot invasion wasn't nearly as big a game-changer for the show as the HYDRA reveal and the collapse of SHIELD.
That's fair, I suppose. Then the real problem is mainly the expectations they created for it. You can't build up hype for weeks about 'theta protocol' and 'everything will change' and then gloss over the tie-in in a single sequence which doesn't even show anything. If they knew this was the way they wanted to go, they should've taken a different approach from the start. And, also, come up with more than just theta protocol as the reason for why Gonzalez suddenly trusts Coulson, because just showing a carrier in a hanger and referencing offscreen events that happened in the past isn't a very convincing setup for the new shield.
That comes back to how "secret" that SHIELD really is. What Coulson and Company did while being hunted by General Talbot and others, yes secret. What action figures or even SEAL Team 6 do is different from what some mercenaries can do in secret
How many Newspapers/24 hour News Networks/Radio Stations does Tony Stark own?
It doesn't bother me. HYDRA's a large, global organization with many cells -- cut off one head, two more grow, etc. So it's logical that there would be multiple groups pursuing different facets of HYDRA. And the movie made it clear that the Avengers were focusing their efforts on the hunt for Loki's scepter, so their goals didn't overlap much with Coulson's.
There's another factor to consider: Deniability. The Avengers are public heroes. SHIELD is publicly discredited and considered a rogue, even terrorist organization. So the Avengers couldn't be seen cooperating openly with a remnant of SHIELD. Thus, it made sense that Coulson avoided interaction with the Avengers, except through secret contact with Maria Hill.
That's true. This was something that works rather nicely as an element of the integrated whole -- I quite enjoyed the way elements set up in the show merged smoothly into the events of the movie -- but that works poorly with regard to the show as its own entity. Ideally you want to find a good balance between serving those two goals, but they didn't succeed here.
It's both the strength and the handicap of this show that it's so closely tied to elements from the movies. It's a strength when it gets us guest appearances from folks like Samuel L. Jackson and Cobie Smulders and Jaimie Alexander, but a weakness when it compels the show to contort its storylines to accommodate the movies' events. The Netflix shows like Daredevil have it better in the latter regard, since their characters are unconnected to the movie characters and can thus follow their own independent story arcs. Although I wish Daredevil had done a bit better at integrating itself in at least one respect, since there were some shots of the Manhattan skyline where you could clearly see the MetLife Building instead of Avengers Tower.
(I also think it would be great if some future season of Daredevil could bring in Black Widow in a recurring role, given the connection between the characters in the comics.)
Personally, I like that this show existed in a world that doesn't revolve around it. In a weird way it makes if feel more grounded that there's a bigger world out there with event happening beyond our characters' control, sometimes even beyond they knowledge.
It was a bit jarring to jump over a whole week like that, but there's really no way to avoid it, nor could they get more directly involved. An Avengers movie by definition has global consequences and there's no way they could just ignore it and in this case there was a logical point of crossover since Fury and SHIELD (and Coulson) have been involved since the get-go.
We'll also probably see something similar happen when Civil War comes out. Indeed like Winter Soldier I suspect that will probably tie much more seamlessly into the show depending on his this Inhuman conflict pans out.
It was a bit jarring to jump over a whole week like that, but there's really no way to avoid it, nor could they get more directly involved. An Avengers movie by definition has global consequences and there's no way they could just ignore it and in this case there was a logical point of crossover since Fury and SHIELD (and Coulson) have been involved since the get-go.
We'll also probably see something similar happen when Civil War comes out. Indeed like Winter Soldier I suspect that will probably tie much more seamlessly into the show depending on his this Inhuman conflict pans out.
Nope. That scrap was said to be just a millennia old conflict while the one that led to the terragenesis experiments was more like a hundred thousand to a million years ago. That's several orders of magnitude more ancient.
I think the whole tie in would gave worked a wee bit better if Coulson had gotten a cameo in the movie and 30 seconds of heroic actions like saving one of the Avengers or actually being in command of the helicarrier instead of Fury.
I know Whedon didn't want that headscratcher in the movie because it would require some explanation for the audience who don't watch the show.
But a single tongue in cheek reference would have done it.
"Coulson? How the hell..."
"You'd be anazed what a trip to Tahiti can do for your health, Cap, it's a magical place. I'll tell you the whole story later (or buy the Agents of SHIELD DVDs instead), right now we have to get those people to safety!"
I know Whedon didn't want that headscratcher in the movie because it would require some explanation for the audience who don't watch the show.
But a single tongue in cheek reference would have done it.
"Coulson? How the hell..."
"You'd be anazed what a trip to Tahiti can do for your health, Cap, it's a magical place. I'll tell you the whole story later (or buy the Agents of SHIELD DVDs instead), right now we have to get those people to safety!"
Actually, the instant that random guy with dark curly hair and a necktie appeared on the helicarrier, I wondered if that role could have been filled by Coulson. And it really could have. He didn't even have to communicate with any of the Avengers - and a throwaway line to Fury or Hill would cover the "what's HE doing there?" people.
It would be a good nod to the series, and deserved really. I'm sure most casual fans would have heard obliquely that Clark Gregg was starring in a SHIELD television show, even if they'd never watch it.
Mark
It would be a good nod to the series, and deserved really. I'm sure most casual fans would have heard obliquely that Clark Gregg was starring in a SHIELD television show, even if they'd never watch it.
Mark
Given that the show has somewhat suffered from the need to throw in references to the movies, and given that Age of Ultron was already overstuffed with setup for the Infinity Gauntlet arc, I'm content that the movie didn't have any overt references to the series shoehorned in. It's enough to leave it implicit -- we know the Avengers found Strucker and Fury got the helicarrier thanks to Coulson's actions. His hand is felt in the movie for those of us who know what to look for, but in a subtle enough way that it doesn't intrude.
Similar threads
