Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)

[Orphalesion]

I didn't care enough for Dany's plot in the books to remember whether Greyworm and Barristan Selmy die or if that whole thing was a show fabrication to spice up Mereen for the screen. And even in the TV show I don't really care enough for those characters to be effected by their death. For all I care Dany's whole entourage, including the mother of dragons herself can just drop from the radar. The plot is just too disconnected from the rest of the characters and I don't give a Grey Rat's ass about Mereen.

I liked the Sand Snakes, though I'm still disappointed about no Ariana and also want finally see more of Myrcella and Trystane. More of Dorne really, it's just such a beautiful place.

Seriously wonder though if we're gonna see Yara again?

In general I really like the deviations from the books here! They cut out a LOT of unnecessary (if often entertaining) new characters and replaced the with those we already know and love who had precious little to do in AFFC and ADWD. This ties the story closer together and prevents it from sprawling out into this unwieldy behemoth it has become in the last two books.

 

[QCzar]

As an aside, I can't be only one who's noticed how much less GoT/ASOIF activity there is here lately. Last year the ASOIF thread stayed in the top ten threads the whole time the show was on (and much before and after it) and the threads (for individual eps, no less) were as big or bigger than this one (from what I remember).

And there seems to be less coverage overall, on other genre sites and even in the media. Has the "OMG Red Wedding!" sheen worn off?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

This season has been really underwhelming so far, which I think speaks to the quality of the source material more than anything else. Last season used most of the best stuff from books 4 and 5, so it's no wonder this season is dragging by comparison. There's still some good material to be had, but it's going to be a thin season.

We're already past the written stories for some of these characters, and will probably exhaust the remainder this season. Some book events look like they aren't going to happen at all. One could argue whether avoiding the character glut of the later books is good or bad--I think it could be good. Bronn and Jaime in Dorne is a potentially promising storyline, if they'd actually do something with it. But the quiet scenes of characters interacting have been pretty dull this season. Lots of spelling things out for the audience as if we're too dumb to figure it up ourselves, and then other things happening virtually without explanation. Cersei's alliance with the High Sparrow, for instance, comes off making very little sense when it should look like a bold strategic move.

 

[DarthTom]

Cersei's alliance with the High Sparrow, for instance, comes off making very little sense when it should look like a bold strategic move.

I always looked at her alliance with the High Sparrow as more detest for Margery - and jealousy related to her on - and an attempt to get her out of the picture which no doubt will ultimately backfire on her somehow.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Cersei's alliance with the High Sparrow, for instance, comes off making very little sense when it should look like a bold strategic move.

I always looked at her alliance with the High Sparrow as more detest for Margery - and jealousy related to her on - and an attempt to get her out of the picture which no doubt will ultimately backfire on her somehow.

You'd think she could just pay someone to kill her instead of doing stuff to piss her off (like have Loras imprisoned.)

 

[137th Gebirg]

Cersei's alliance with the High Sparrow, for instance, comes off making very little sense when it should look like a bold strategic move.

I always looked at her alliance with the High Sparrow as more detest for Margery - and jealousy related to her on - and an attempt to get her out of the picture which no doubt will ultimately backfire on her somehow.

That and, in reality, she's trying to prove to herself and the world that she's every bit the strategist at forming alliances and playing the highest political games in the Realm as her father. She's got some seriously unresolved daddy-issues and she thinks that this will propel her into the upper stratosphere of great Westerosi rulers in history. Sadly, all that is being pretty much forgotten in her back-story and what's going on in her head right now.

I love how they're starting to talk about the events that led to Baratheon's rebellion and, in particular, Rhaegar's infatuation with Lyanna. They're FINALLY starting to touch on some very important history that led to all this turmoil. I only wish Littlefinger told Sansa more - he clearly knows what really happened, and the look she gave him about the whole "captured and raped" bit speaks VOLUMES in its silence.

 

[DarthTom]

You'd think she could just pay someone to kill her instead of doing stuff to piss her off (like have Loras imprisoned.)

That wouldn't have been as effective because Margery would have convinced Tommen to go after Loras or at least try to find him.

She needed to create a situation whereby Tommen - who she knows is weak - would be backed into a corner and to some degree betray Margerys confidences.

I'm betting this whole scheme will fail in multiple ways. Likley:

1. Tommen will so miss Margery that he'll, 'man - up,' and have Loras released and take on the group or....

2. The Sparrow will also betray Cersci and back-stab her somehow undermining the whole plan or....

3. Margery will somehow undermine the whole plan and perhaps reveal that Cercei and Jamie fathered her three children - including Tommen - making their, 'sin,' worse than homosexuality.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I strongly doubt #3, but humiliating Tommen so he'll come crawling back to mommy is probably stage one of her power play. It just has a lot of room to blow up in her face.

 

[DarthTom]

I strongly doubt #3, but humiliating Tommen so he'll come crawling back to mommy is probably stage one of her power play. It just has a lot of room to blow up in her face.

Don't forget though that Lady Olenna was well aware of Tommen and her other children's true lineage.

In fact if you recall, she hinted as such with Tywin Lannister when he attempted to use Loras' sexual orientation as some sort of leverage. To paraphrase her, ..'buggery may be one thing but incest is another....'

Perhaps also, Olenna will be incensed in learning her grandchild is locked up in chains and will reveal Cersi and Jamie's big secret.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I strongly doubt #3, but humiliating Tommen so he'll come crawling back to mommy is probably stage one of her power play. It just has a lot of room to blow up in her face.

Don't forget though that Lady Olenna was well aware of Tommen and her other children's true lineage.

In fact if you recall, she hinted as such with Tywin Lannister when he attempted to use Loras' sexual orientation as some sort of leverage. To paraphrase her, ..'buggery may be one thing but incest is another....'

Perhaps also, Olenna will be incensed in learning her grandchild is locked up in chains and will reveal Cersi and Jamie's big secret.

It doesn't matter. The incest is an open secret at this point. It's not as if Jaime or Cersei is going to openly admit to it, and they don't have DNA tests.

 

[FPAlpha]

Does anyone in Westeros not know about Jaime and Cersei?

As for DNA tests.. well.. i think even in Westeros common sense is still a thing. Robert Baratheon was a brown haired man, Cersei and Jaime are blondes.. Cersei's children are blondes and together with the rumors that's more than enough for the common people to put two and two together (as evidenced by the scene where Tommen tries to meet the High Sparrow).

I agree that the season so far lacks that little bit of "Oomph" that previous seasons had but then again all seasons spent the first few episodes setting up the second half of of the season where the show usually picks up speed to explode in the final two episodes so i'm not worried.

In fact i like the character driven episodes, the developments and the dialogue heavy scenes very much.. it reminds me of other series i liked (such as Rome for example).

I liked this one too very much.. Tyrions razor sharp wit in deducing who his captor is, Cersei thinking she's oh so smart while sending an incompetent fool to negotiate the states finances with cutthroat bankers (and assembling a ruling council full of sycophants, incompetence and people ill suited to their position just so she can feel all powerful) and Dany's reign slowly slipping away from her while she refuses to compromise and acknowledge a different culture while refusing to compromise.

I have not read the books (i know.. damn oversight and i plan to do so sometime in the future) but i have spoilt myself on some things still to happen (in this season i think) so it's a delight to see the producers setting up these events (i especially look forward to one particular event ).

Anyway.. even without huge and constant WTF moments in the episodes it's still one of the best shows currently and i like it a lot.

P.S.
Poor Barristan and Grey Worm.. i really liked them and i especially liked the scene with Barristan and Dany where he spoke of events he witnessed that would change the world (and he spoke so casually about that it was no wonder he made Dany laugh and admire him).

 

[137th Gebirg]

I, too, was shocked at that scene, although I'm not entirely convinced that Grey Worm is down for the count yet. Clipping one character as shock value is true to GoT form. Clipping two in the same scene is a bit much, I think, even for them. The preview only showed Selmy's body on the slab, so there may be hope. Either way, the scene showed what a genuine bad-ass Selmy was, right up to the end. I lost count of all the bodies he put down before hitting the floor himself.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Does anyone in Westeros not know about Jaime and Cersei?

As for DNA tests.. well.. i think even in Westeros common sense is still a thing. Robert Baratheon was a brown haired man, Cersei and Jaime are blondes.. Cersei's children are blondes and together with the rumors that's more than enough for the common people to put two and two together (as evidenced by the scene where Tommen tries to meet the High Sparrow).

My point must have sailed right over your head because that's exactly what I meant. No one can prove conclusively that Cersei's kids are the product of incest, but everyone basically knows they are anyway.

In any case, Westerosi genetics work a bit oddly since you actually can have two brown-haired parents produce blonde-haired children. In our world, such an outcome wouldn't prove anything! But it was enough for Ned Stark, I guess.

I agree that the season so far lacks that little bit of "Oomph" that previous seasons had but then again all seasons spent the first few episodes setting up the second half of of the season where the show usually picks up speed to explode in the final two episodes so i'm not worried.

In fact i like the character driven episodes, the developments and the dialogue heavy scenes very much.. it reminds me of other series i liked (such as Rome for example).

I liked this one too very much.. Tyrions razor sharp wit in deducing who his captor is, Cersei thinking she's oh so smart while sending an incompetent fool to negotiate the states finances with cutthroat bankers (and assembling a ruling council full of sycophants, incompetence and people ill suited to their position just so she can feel all powerful) and Dany's reign slowly slipping away from her while she refuses to compromise and acknowledge a different culture while refusing to compromise.

I have not read the books (i know.. damn oversight and i plan to do so sometime in the future) but i have spoilt myself on some things still to happen (in this season i think) so it's a delight to see the producers setting up these events (i especially look forward to one particular event ).

Anyway.. even without huge and constant WTF moments in the episodes it's still one of the best shows currently and i like it a lot.

P.S.
Poor Barristan and Grey Worm.. i really liked them and i especially liked the scene with Barristan and Dany where he spoke of events he witnessed that would change the world (and he spoke so casually about that it was no wonder he made Dany laugh and admire him).

I just wish it all wasn't so fucking boring. Even the scheming this season, which is usually entertaining, is dull as dirt so far.

 

[FPAlpha]

Does anyone in Westeros not know about Jaime and Cersei?

As for DNA tests.. well.. i think even in Westeros common sense is still a thing. Robert Baratheon was a brown haired man, Cersei and Jaime are blondes.. Cersei's children are blondes and together with the rumors that's more than enough for the common people to put two and two together (as evidenced by the scene where Tommen tries to meet the High Sparrow).

My point must have sailed right over your head because that's exactly what I meant. No one can prove conclusively that Cersei's kids are the product of incest, but everyone basically knows they are anyway.

In any case, Westerosi genetics work a bit oddly since you actually can have two brown-haired parents produce blonde-haired children. In our world, such an outcome wouldn't prove anything! But it was enough for Ned Stark, I guess.

I don't think i adressed your point specifically hence me not quoting you

Genetically speaking it is possible that two dark haired parents can produce a light haired child but it's rare because dark hair is dominant usually.

However since Westerosi haven't even heard of the word gene all they can use is their eyes and rumors and those spread faster than anything else.

But as you said it was enough to spark the curiosity of Ned (which led to the death of Jon Arryn that got the whole story rolling).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Does anyone in Westeros not know about Jaime and Cersei?

As for DNA tests.. well.. i think even in Westeros common sense is still a thing. Robert Baratheon was a brown haired man, Cersei and Jaime are blondes.. Cersei's children are blondes and together with the rumors that's more than enough for the common people to put two and two together (as evidenced by the scene where Tommen tries to meet the High Sparrow).

My point must have sailed right over your head because that's exactly what I meant. No one can prove conclusively that Cersei's kids are the product of incest, but everyone basically knows they are anyway.

In any case, Westerosi genetics work a bit oddly since you actually can have two brown-haired parents produce blonde-haired children. In our world, such an outcome wouldn't prove anything! But it was enough for Ned Stark, I guess.

I don't think i adressed your point specifically hence me not quoting you

Genetically speaking it is possible that two dark haired parents can produce a light haired child but it's rare because dark hair is dominant usually.

However since Westerosi haven't even heard of the word gene all they can use is their eyes and rumors and those spread faster than anything else.

But as you said it was enough to spark the curiosity of Ned (which led to the death of Jon Arryn that got the whole story rolling).

Good to know, since my brown haired parents have two blond haired children.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Did Sir Barristen and Grey Worm die in that scene or did they just pass out very badly injured? It wasn't completely clear.

Must've been a badly executed cliffhanger for it not to be obvious to everyone--you aren't supposed to know yet. Gotta wait until next week!

The real question was.. did anyone care?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked the Denerys story a lot early but I agree it's dragged a lot. But I still like the characters enough to care if they die.

I know it was supposed to be a cliffhanger, but that kind of cliffhanger is lame.

I don't think the idea behind Ned's discovery about the blonde hair was not that brown haired parents produced blonde haired children so much as every single Baratheon male has brown hair regardless of the hair color of the wife.

I do see Cersei's allegiance with the fanatics as a political move. She can't kill Margery or Loras because she still needs the Tyrell's money. But she can replace the whole small council with people directly loyal to her.

I'm wondering when that guy is going to be done Frankensteining the Mountain.

 

[Venardhi]

Not every Baratheon male, just all children born of Baratheon and Lannister pairings. (This was a bit more convincing in the books where the Baratheons have coal-black hair.)

 

[Anaximandre]

The thing i find disturbing with this whole Lannister-hair color thing is that most of the nobility of westeros doesn't seem to notice it. I mean it's so easy to figure out that they're not the children of Robert.

 

[Orphalesion]

On the sparrows thing; in the book they also came out of nowhere. Sure they were given a justification (being people displaced/disenfranchised by the war) but it's still true that they were nowhere to be seen in book 3 and suddenly appeared out of nowhere in FFC.

Kinda meh that Loras suffers the wrath of Cersei here, though I really liked the contrast between Tommen and Joffrey as well as Margaery's reactions to Tommen, when it comes down to it Margaery's loyalties will always lie with Highgarden and I love it.

As for the oomph being gone well....for a long time GoT was kind of the story of Rob Stark waging war against Joffrey and Dany's quest to win the Iron Throne with everything else as a totally delicious bonus.
Now...Rob's dead...Joffrey's dead....Dany's sitting on her ass in Mereen instead of going to conquer. We lost one "main hero", the other is doing nothing and the "main bad guy" is gone. We lost a lot of awesome characters over the last two seasons and the rest are spread far and thin. You can see how this might be a problem.