Auxiliary Control
- Thread starter Wingsley
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Those of us who remember that Kirk is the captain of the Enterprise and who also notice that none of the other officers contradict him aren't really left wondering that, no.
Evidently, if the antimatter pods blow up, so does the ship. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that Scotty didn't understand that himself. No doubt he knew that Kirk knew that, for crying out loud.
Let's keep in mind that while “EOT” was an entertaining and engaging drama, when looked at from the standpoint of a television show, when looked at purely from the technical point of view and searching for clues to trek tech, it’s not very well written.
Are the antimatter pods rigged to blow –detonating the A-M- or is there a bomb onboard?
Do the Klingons want the ship to blow when warp drive is engaged, or do they want to prevent it from going to warp at all by fusing the dilithium converter?
Is the above all part of one attempt at sabotage, somehow connected, or two separate things?
What’s going on here?
Are the antimatter pods rigged to blow –detonating the A-M- or is there a bomb onboard?
Do the Klingons want the ship to blow when warp drive is engaged, or do they want to prevent it from going to warp at all by fusing the dilithium converter?
Is the above all part of one attempt at sabotage, somehow connected, or two separate things?
What’s going on here?
The main Klingon plan was that what Kryton had done wouldn't be figured out before the Klingon ship provoked the Enterprise into activating the warp drive, which would trigger the antimatter detonation, and they were within seconds of succeeding. Kryton obviously didn't bring a bomb with him aboard the ship. He rewired something in engineering which converted the antimatter pods into a bomb. Kryton committed suicide so he couldn't reveal what he had done.
As for the dilithium crystal converter assembly being fused, I'd say that that was the backup plan. If the antimatter bomb was discovered and disabled, the ship would still be without warp drive, which in fact it was until the other crystals were discovered in the necklace. It's possible that the antimatter bomb could have been triggered by other means, such as by putting warp power into the shields. So if the fused crystals had been discovered first, the ship would still be sabotaged, and perhaps even discovery of the fused crystals might have created a false sense of security that the sabotage had been discovered which held long enough for the bomb to get triggered. The main point of triggering the bomb on going to warp was that it had to look like an accident to anyone who found the wreckage. Hence, the bomb was the ship itself. Again, the Klingons got within seconds of accomplishing that.
Actually, this is a really well written episode when it comes to Trek tech.
I can't believe I missed this the other day:
Whatever Kryton's sabotage was, this (it seems) was the intended result. The question is, does it require the presence of a M/AM reactor in the secondary hull?
That's a logical inference, but the trouble is that there are very few details on the explosive system that was rigged up.
Ya know, when we consider the rather vague instructions Kirk gives to Scotty:
In both cases, Kryton achieves his goal: either the Enterprise nacelles explode when activated or else the ship is unable to go to warp due to the secondary systems being offline (if he's very lucky, the crew won't notice the lack of Dilithium and will engage anyway, leading to the ship self destructing under FTL inertia)
Or maybe something else!
The lack of specific info in the episode leads to various interpretations. However, I'm not convinced that a tertiary "mini" M/AM reactor is required. There are far more references to the nacelles being the source of power in TOS, in any case.
Whatever Kryton's sabotage was, this (it seems) was the intended result. The question is, does it require the presence of a M/AM reactor in the secondary hull?
Aside from TWS and EOT, are they any suggestions of reactors anywhere except the nacelles? It's been a while since I thoroughly checked, but I think these two are the only ones.
That's a logical inference, but the trouble is that there are very few details on the explosive system that was rigged up.
Ya know, when we consider the rather vague instructions Kirk gives to Scotty:
...then maybe that is what happened. I earlier postulated that Scotty removed the "bomb" off camera, but maybe this was in fact his solution (albeit with some unplanned consequences).
In both cases, Kryton achieves his goal: either the Enterprise nacelles explode when activated or else the ship is unable to go to warp due to the secondary systems being offline (if he's very lucky, the crew won't notice the lack of Dilithium and will engage anyway, leading to the ship self destructing under FTL inertia)
Or maybe something else!
The lack of specific info in the episode leads to various interpretations. However, I'm not convinced that a tertiary "mini" M/AM reactor is required. There are far more references to the nacelles being the source of power in TOS, in any case.
I would assume that whatever Scott did to stop the ship from exploding if they went to warp fused the covernter assembly.
An assumption is that whatever Kryton did was through the Dilithium crystal setup. Setup a feedback to the antimatter pods through the dilithium crystals that would setoff the antimatter in the pods...like forcing the matter stream into the antimatter pods instead of both mixing together. The rigging would have to be such that taking it apart under normal conditions would also setup a matter-antimatter explosion, or at the very least cause the containment to fail somewhere around the antimatter (either in the stream or the pods) thus blowing up the ship.
Scott fusing the converter assembly might have been the only way to stop the antimatter stream from going into the matter stream and maintain containment. But that still leaves the ship without warp power until something can be rigged with new crystals.
An assumption is that whatever Kryton did was through the Dilithium crystal setup. Setup a feedback to the antimatter pods through the dilithium crystals that would setoff the antimatter in the pods...like forcing the matter stream into the antimatter pods instead of both mixing together. The rigging would have to be such that taking it apart under normal conditions would also setup a matter-antimatter explosion, or at the very least cause the containment to fail somewhere around the antimatter (either in the stream or the pods) thus blowing up the ship.
Scott fusing the converter assembly might have been the only way to stop the antimatter stream from going into the matter stream and maintain containment. But that still leaves the ship without warp power until something can be rigged with new crystals.
There is. In "The Day of the Dove" Chekov reports the energy creature "near reactor number three" and then the action takes us to the ordinary engine room set. I'm of the opinion that there is a third, smaller reactor in the secondary hull, in the vicinity of the engine rooms.
....
Or maybe something else!
Indeed. And I fully subscribe to the nacelles being the primary source of power. At least for the actual engines. I would suggest "Reactor Number three" is used as the main source of power for the rest of the ship's facilities. But that power can be passed around at need.
That said, I still think the scenario you've outlined here could still work even given a tertiary (really secondary, as both the nacelles would count as primary) power source.
--Alex
From EOT there is also the added information that dilithium crystals that aren't flowing energy correctly could blow the ship up.
So like others have suggested, the dilithium converter assembly was likely sabotaged in a way that when the m-am energy from the m-am reactors is sent to the dilithium crystals it would cause something to overload and catastrophically explode. When Scotty tried to remove it the whole assembly fused making it unusable. They still had m-am energy but couldn't do anything with it to generate power that the ship's weapons or warp drive could use until they got the new crystals in place, IMHO.
So like others have suggested, the dilithium converter assembly was likely sabotaged in a way that when the m-am energy from the m-am reactors is sent to the dilithium crystals it would cause something to overload and catastrophically explode. When Scotty tried to remove it the whole assembly fused making it unusable. They still had m-am energy but couldn't do anything with it to generate power that the ship's weapons or warp drive could use until they got the new crystals in place, IMHO.
SPOCK: Captain, these are crude crystals. There is no way to judge what the unusual shapes will do to the energy flow.
SCOTT: Aye, that could blow us up just as effectively as...
That is reasonable, also, either as an alternative to what I said above or as the nature of the backup plan for the main sabotage being uncovered in time.
It would make senes to have them be one and the same. It lessens the time Kryton needs to do the task, and even if Scott managed to stop the ship from blowing up, they won't have the ability to use their warp engines for power or warp speeds. Not without crystals anyway. I would guess that it would be normal to have spare crystals, but give how often the Enterprise has engine damage, it might be reasonable that any given starship would have used their spares within the first year of a Five Year Mission. And given the supposed rarity, replacement spares might be uncommon even for Starships that stop at Starbases.
If Kryton's aim is to blow up the ship, and the "bomb" or "rigging" can achieve that even when an expert like Scotty tries to work his way around the threat, let alone when a random goon is fiddling with it...
...Why did Kryton use a system that requires triggering? Why not just blow up the ship and be done with it? After all, all it takes is aforesaid fiddling!
It would make no tactical or political difference whether the ship blew up at a moment T1 or T2. Except that T2 would be suspicious if it was the moment the Klingons approached the ship - so Kryton would be motivated to go for the moment T1 when there are no Klingons anywhere near.
If Kryton is motivated by personal survival (leave a timed/triggerable bomb and call the Klingons for a pickup), it makes no sense for him to commit suicide. He doesn't fear interrogation or torture. If he wants to die, he can just wait until the ship blows up. Yet if he wants to live, he must tell Kirk about the threat and the actions Kirk needs to take to prevent the deaths of everybody. So it's quite unlikely Kryton chose indirect destruction as part of a personal escape scheme.
This sort of confused writing need not amount to internal illogic, though. Kryton could have been two seconds away from blowing up the ship when caught - and when he was interrupted, the blowing-up arrangements were left in a state that amounted to a "bomb" that needed "defusing". It would be completely accidental that warp drive would also serve as a trigger for the "bomb", because Kryton always intended to do it by flipping a switch himself.
As for the "reactor number three" thing, "Catspaw" has DeSalle order the entire output of "reactors 1, 2 and 3" channeled. It's an odd and unlikely way of phrasing it if there are only three reactors - "all reactors" would be much more concise!
Those appear to be impulse reactors anyway, as impulse power is what DeSalle ordered used in the preceding scene. Yet whatever type of reactor gets the mention in "Day of the Dove", it's also clearly just one out of several, or else Spock wouldn't feel obligated to specify "number three". Yet he has already specified "in engineering section", so it makes no semantic sense for number 3 to be the only one in that section.
I'm much more willing to see "foreshadowing of STXI" here, with potentially dozens of (but more probably something like half a dozen) smallish reactors in the engineering section. These need not have much to do with the primary power source of the ship, or with the warp drive, as the "numbered" reactors never are connected with such applications in dialogue. Perhaps there is no such thing as a "warp reactor" and never was? (After all, there's no such thing in any of the other Trek eras!)
Timo Saloniemi
...Why did Kryton use a system that requires triggering? Why not just blow up the ship and be done with it? After all, all it takes is aforesaid fiddling!
It would make no tactical or political difference whether the ship blew up at a moment T1 or T2. Except that T2 would be suspicious if it was the moment the Klingons approached the ship - so Kryton would be motivated to go for the moment T1 when there are no Klingons anywhere near.
If Kryton is motivated by personal survival (leave a timed/triggerable bomb and call the Klingons for a pickup), it makes no sense for him to commit suicide. He doesn't fear interrogation or torture. If he wants to die, he can just wait until the ship blows up. Yet if he wants to live, he must tell Kirk about the threat and the actions Kirk needs to take to prevent the deaths of everybody. So it's quite unlikely Kryton chose indirect destruction as part of a personal escape scheme.
This sort of confused writing need not amount to internal illogic, though. Kryton could have been two seconds away from blowing up the ship when caught - and when he was interrupted, the blowing-up arrangements were left in a state that amounted to a "bomb" that needed "defusing". It would be completely accidental that warp drive would also serve as a trigger for the "bomb", because Kryton always intended to do it by flipping a switch himself.
As for the "reactor number three" thing, "Catspaw" has DeSalle order the entire output of "reactors 1, 2 and 3" channeled. It's an odd and unlikely way of phrasing it if there are only three reactors - "all reactors" would be much more concise!
Those appear to be impulse reactors anyway, as impulse power is what DeSalle ordered used in the preceding scene. Yet whatever type of reactor gets the mention in "Day of the Dove", it's also clearly just one out of several, or else Spock wouldn't feel obligated to specify "number three". Yet he has already specified "in engineering section", so it makes no semantic sense for number 3 to be the only one in that section.
I'm much more willing to see "foreshadowing of STXI" here, with potentially dozens of (but more probably something like half a dozen) smallish reactors in the engineering section. These need not have much to do with the primary power source of the ship, or with the warp drive, as the "numbered" reactors never are connected with such applications in dialogue. Perhaps there is no such thing as a "warp reactor" and never was? (After all, there's no such thing in any of the other Trek eras!)
Timo Saloniemi
There was a hole in security that Kryton exploited, but evidently that hole did not allow him to actually activate warp power. So, all he could do was muck up part of the works where the warp power would flow.
Well, you do have some good points here, but hardly an airtight case. "All reactors" may be more concise for DeSalle to say, but maybe strict adherence to regulations requires the verbal numbering in such a situation. After all, DeSalle is not the normal order-giving guy, so maybe he's running it by the book out of inexperience. OTOH, perhaps he's just being very specific to make sure there is no confusion in what he's ordering.
As for Spock calling out Reactor 3 in the Engineering Section, this guy has a repudiation for using way more detail than required in most every situation. It would be entirely in keeping with his character for him to specify reactor 3 even though it is the only such device in the area.
Having said all that, I am of the opinion that there are other reactors. It would seem logical that the impulse drive have a reactor of some sort (perhaps numbered 4) and we often hear mention of "auxiliary power" which I suppose might also be coming from one or more smaller generators. I would suggest (with a healthy dose of supposition) That there are a whole collection of various sorts of reactor on board, numbered from most powerful to least. #1 and #2 each being in a nacelle to dedicate power to the warp drive, #3 in the engineering hull none-to-far from the main engine rooms, #4 near the impulse engines (possibly this a fusion reactor, not M/AM), and some quantity of small contingency fusion devices here and there throughout the hull for auxiliary power.
--Alex
Yes, this is the main reason why I lean toward there being a third A/M reactor in the engineering hull, especially since later in the same episode we see the pinwheel alien exit the engineering room and emerge from the secondary hull.
Also, as mentioned upthread, in “Catspaw” there is the reference to “reactors number 1, 2 and 3”; which, granted, might not necessarily mean all three are A/M reactors, since we know the ship has fusion reactors for impulse power, but Occam’s razor and parsimony of hypothesis would seem to suggest so.
Incidentally, I also entertain the possibility that what we see in “The Doomsday Machine” where the Constellation’s impulse engines are powered by fusion reactor(s) was the emergency backup only, and that under ordinary operating conditions, the impulse engines are powered by the M/A-M reactor(s) (which were “deactivated” and off-line in “TDDM”).
The above is also consistent with “Metamorphosis” where the crew is looking for anti-matter residue in search of the shuttlecraft which they think may have exploded, and we know that the shuttle is supposedly impulse powered.
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I tend to believe that the shuttles have only a superficial similarity to starship engines - they were said to have "ion engine power" in The Menagerie which may well have utilised antimatter in some manner to boost engine efficiency as well - we simply don't know.
Interesting notion about the Impulse Engines operating mainly on the mini-reactor though, since this is basically the setup in the TMP-E. It would set a nice precedent.
However, I would think that the Impulse Engine fusion reactors are kept in an ever-ready status, since the crew call on them to supplement the ship's power fairly often - Catspaw being just one such example, although by the time Reactors 1, 2 & 3 are used maybe not:
Albertese, you took the words right out my mouth with regard to the dialogue issues, thanks!
Interesting notion about the Impulse Engines operating mainly on the mini-reactor though, since this is basically the setup in the TMP-E. It would set a nice precedent.
However, I would think that the Impulse Engine fusion reactors are kept in an ever-ready status, since the crew call on them to supplement the ship's power fairly often - Catspaw being just one such example, although by the time Reactors 1, 2 & 3 are used maybe not:
Off camera, we moved from a heat field generated by the Impulse Engines to an electrical field generated by something else. Curiously, the Warp Engines are not mentioned at all that episode.
Albertese, you took the words right out my mouth with regard to the dialogue issues, thanks!
This is why I think the impulse engines/power was used initially to boost the deflector shields, but once proved effective, all three A/M reactors were thrown in to generate the maximum effect.
After all, they are trying to generate as much power as possible –which suggests three is the maximum # of M/A-M reactors, since the dialog makes clear that they were already using the impulse power/reactor(s).
And I agree that the impulse/fusion reactor power may be used on a regular basis for any number of things, but only called upon for propulsion when the M/A-M reactors (which normally provide that function) are not available? In any case, I think we may need to make a slight distinction between impulse power and impulse engines?
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Semantically, the fact remains that there is only one matter-antimatter reactor aboard the ship. Such a device is referred to twice and only twice, in "TWS" and "EoT". The reference is in singular in both cases, not even a case of a swallowed plural "s" such as in ST2:TWoK and the "main energizer(')s out" thing.
And in "TWS", it's a device that can be checked from Main Engineering, just out of sight (but within earshot) of Scotty, and apparently only from there, from a dedicated control panel whose specific properties feature in the forensic investigation to Watkins' death. In "EoT", it's a device sabotaged by Kryton at Main Engineering. Either it's a single machine close to that location, or then it's an extensive and distributed system that can be accessed from that location, but it's still just one system.
Correspondingly, all dealings with antimatter in TOS and TAS are from a single access point, not two or three. Although TAS does make it asymmetric, with access in one nacelle, but that's apparently just a "kickstarter" system of some sort, not an "all cylinders firing" arrangement.
None of the numbered reactors have anything to do with antimatter or warp drive in dialogue. This doesn't rule out their use in propulsion and the other possibilities, but it serves to distance them from the "matter-antimatter reactor", which does have a direct connection to warp drive in both episodes.
Combining all this, it's difficult to see a case for nacelle-located reactors, which would call for plural (which we never get) and, more fundamentally, mention of such reactors (which we never get). That's separate from whether the nacelles handle antimatter or generate power, though.
Timo Saloniemi
And in "TWS", it's a device that can be checked from Main Engineering, just out of sight (but within earshot) of Scotty, and apparently only from there, from a dedicated control panel whose specific properties feature in the forensic investigation to Watkins' death. In "EoT", it's a device sabotaged by Kryton at Main Engineering. Either it's a single machine close to that location, or then it's an extensive and distributed system that can be accessed from that location, but it's still just one system.
Correspondingly, all dealings with antimatter in TOS and TAS are from a single access point, not two or three. Although TAS does make it asymmetric, with access in one nacelle, but that's apparently just a "kickstarter" system of some sort, not an "all cylinders firing" arrangement.
None of the numbered reactors have anything to do with antimatter or warp drive in dialogue. This doesn't rule out their use in propulsion and the other possibilities, but it serves to distance them from the "matter-antimatter reactor", which does have a direct connection to warp drive in both episodes.
Combining all this, it's difficult to see a case for nacelle-located reactors, which would call for plural (which we never get) and, more fundamentally, mention of such reactors (which we never get). That's separate from whether the nacelles handle antimatter or generate power, though.
Timo Saloniemi
Not quite, there is this from "By Any Other Name" where Spock says “the Enterprise is propelled by matter/anti-matter reactors”. Note that this is not only a reference to multiple reactors (at east two) but multiple A/M reactors at that!
And the use of the word propelled as opposed to just “powered” suggests that these reactors are meant to be understood as being in the “propulsion units” i.e. the nacelles/pods.
That this is a correct inference is born out by the fact that Spock is discussing with Scotty the possibility of destroying the ship, and Scotty later tells the Captain that he has "opened the control valves to the matter/anti-matter nacelles" (in accordance with his and Spock's prior discussion and plan).
It is precisely this statement by Spock which leads me to favor a multiple reactor setup, and given that in “Catspaw” there are three reactors (at least), numbered together in numerical succession (implying that all three are of the same type), reinforces this conclusion. And while not specified as M/A-M reactors, neither is there evidence that they are not.
On the other hand, in “DOTD” one of these reactors (#3 -it’s highly doubtful there would be more than one reactor “#3” on board) is near the engineering room –which a host of other episodes (particularly “TWS” and “EOT”) establish as the general location of at least one M/A-M reactor -suggesting that all three reactors mentioned in “Catspaw” are M/A-M reactors and that it is therefore logical to conclude from this, and the weight of evidence throughout the series, that the other two (#1 and #2) are in each of the two nacelles.
Incidentally, that the engine room reactor is #3, as opposed to #1, implies that it is the tertiary back-up or booster, and not the primary?
Finally, there is lots of dialog in the show, both direct and indirect, that the nacelles generate power and contain M/A-M, so I don’t think it’s too far fetched to logically conclude that they also contain M/A-M reactors.
This way everything dangerous is kept as safe a distance as possible from the habitable parts of the ship, in accordance with Jefferies original intention for putting the warp drive engines where he did.
The two references in “TWS” and “EOT” are the odd man out, so to speak, with their single reactor reference, that’s why I think they should be interpreted (if possible) in such a way as to reconcile them with the rest of the series, and not the other way around.
The obvious solution in each case is that for some reason the two nacelle reactors are not an option, and there is only one reactor remaining at Scotty's disposal, hence his use of the singular "reactor" in these isolated instances. I think this is easier done with "EOT", as I suggested up thread.
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