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Auxiliary Control

Although undoubtedly influenced by the literature of the 1980s and 90s, I never considered that the severing of the primary and secondary hulls in TOS was anything but a last ditch, permanent course of action. There's also the language that Kirk uses - "jettison" implies a final option rather than a routine (if rare) manoeuvre.

However, having an emergency control room in both sections (just in case) is a sensible precaution, IMO
 
Kirk has been known to use existing hardware in unconventional ways before: antimatter from the engines as a weapon in "Obsession", adding impulse engines to warp ones to break tractor tow in "Corbomite". The other heroes appear at least slightly surprised at such orders - is this because this runs contrary to what the field manuals say; because it on the surface makes no sense; or because Kirk is absolutely brilliant in having come up with this idea when everybody else had forgotten the ship was capable of this?

The "to do" list Kirk gives Scotty in "The Apple" may describe a single multistage procedure, but it sounds more like a list of two separate and alternative items Scotty might try: either use impulse engines, or if that fails, separate the nacelles. It might also be that Kirk does not really expect Scotty to do either: he might be suggesting absurd things to give emphasis to his orders to bring imagination to play. That latter interpretation might in fact establish that Kirk's ship can perform no separation maneuvers of note...

Timo Saloniemi
 
I don't have time to look it up at the moment, but doesn't TMoST go a bit into the idea of the saucer separating from the secondary hull to be used as a lifeboat?

--Alex
 
"Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" suggested that that was the old procedure, but with the engine redesign, the reduntancy features in the original secondary hull were removed as the new drive systems would not be able to provide thrust without the impulse unit. A quirk of the new design that routed warp power into everything and shifted the nacelles to only being there to generate a warp field, but not provide thrust within said field. Thus there is no full on auxilary control room in the refit Enterprise's secondary hull, though those systems can be routed through main engineering.
 
There's a copy of the series bible in PDF form here.

On PDF page 48 (the second p.15) there is the following passage:

WHAT ABOUT THE SHIP'S MAIN SAUCER-LIKE SECTION?

This is the portion of the shop in which we will be and which we will use most. It contains at the very top the ship's bridge and general operation facilities. This "saucer" is approximately twenty stories thick at its widest spot, containing also primary ship's departments, living accommodations, recreational facilities, laboratories, and is in fact a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short-range solar system exploration.

So, was the saucer originally going to be a glorified shuttlecraft? Bear in mind that this is an earlier version of the series bible (the later one is PDF pages 1-33). It would also indicate that the ship was originally imagined as nearly twice as long as the "official" 947 feet.

Mind you, I am not sorry that the source of the Impulse Engine's power was canonically fixed as "atomic". That would make it WAY underpowered :D
 
I would suppose that the conceptual basis for how a starship operates deviated from the realities of television production pretty quickly; the cost of showing the ship separating probably scared the writers and producers off quickly.

Imagine if "The Galileo Seven" wasn't just about seven castaway astronauts in a shuttlecraft, but a couple hundred specialists aboard the original Enterprise's saucer section (atmosphere a little like the C57D on THE FORBIDDEN PLANET, perhaps?) and Spock in command of the saucer's expedition as Kirk stands by in the star drive section some distance away from the Murasaki 312 Effect. It would be essentially the same story, but the saucer would have to be attacked by a HUGE King Kong, or an army of Baby Kongs, or more likely several dinosaurs.

It would be a neat idea, but probably not practical if the cost of the shuttlecraft set and exterior mock-up, etc. were (almost certainly) less than the saucer approach. If someone could've found a way for a saucer-and-dinos or a saucer-and-ten-foot-tall-apes scenario to work, it would've been great. It also would've shown Spock in command of a mission worthy of his rank.

I could see the saucer being useful for planetfall missions where it would be helpful for the saucer to remain with an expedition for a time, like they would temporarily be using it as a home-base until a new base-camp or other station could be set up. TOS really didn't capitalize on being in outer space enough; it took until "The Tholian Web" before we saw our heroes wearing spacesuits. If the first year of TOS had shown this sooner, we could have seen the saucer landing on the surface of an asteroid, possibly to either help establish an important survey expedition there, or to investigate what happened to a mine or station there. If the situation had a military dimension to it (the sector being put on alert because a disaster beacon sounded; maybe Romulans were suspected), the saucer could be sent into an asteroid field while the stardrive section would remain on-watch in open space.

Another scenario would be the Enterprise and her sister-ships using interchangeable saucers. Say the Enterprise had a new mission: a new colony or starbase/space-station was prefabbed and ready to get set up on a planet or asteroid in a distant frontier sector, and the mission is time-sensitive. Command wants that base in operation fast. So the Enterprise arrives at Starbase 11, jettisons her "regular" starship saucer, and attaches a ready-made "mission module", a saucer built to operate independently and jettison quickly to allow for rapid deployment to a frontier site were it would immediately become either a provisional command-base or a short-range interplanetary spacecraft to service the new base's operation. Prefabbed one-mission saucers could be an excellent way for the Federation to deposit hundreds of well-equipped specialists on a planet or asteroid and be completely independent and well-protected from the start.

When it comes to saucer-power, I always go back to "The Alternative Factor" when Lazarus steals dilithium from an engineering room that appears to be powering the ship even while in orbit; I surmised this was an impulse engine room and the dilithium was being used for the impulse drive.
 
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Use of "man-sized" props and sets serves another function where televised scifi makes compromises between reality and drama - or, amusingly, caters for both with the same solution. Sending the saucer to study a planet is 1950s thinking; by the 1960s, it would already have become clear that the one thing a survey mission does not need is people.

In the modern world, instruments do the studying, and people only get in the way if they don't sit in their comfy chairs and toy with the data on their VR displays. There's basically nothing realistic for hordes of extras to do, and it's difficult to invent "scientific" or "naval"/"astronautical" tasks for even a group of seven characters with lines.

A shuttle that accommodates half a dozen characters is a nice "compromise" in that it's a step that pleases both those minding the realism of the situation and those paying for the actors. We get machinery that goes ping, and we get people, and we get the sense of people going places. And we get the impression that these folks should really be back in their ship for safety, that their mission automatically puts them in jeopardy, and that things like "lifeboats" or "abandon ship scenarios" would mean even greater jeopardy and would be avoided by the characters till the very last.

TOS really didn't capitalize on being in outer space enough; it took until "The Tholian Web" before we saw our heroes wearing spacesuits.
And that's realism of sorts, too. People up at the international space station would much rather never do spacewalks; once we go to Mars, suits will probably be donned mainly for the obligatory photo opportunities and extreme emergencies, and the way to actually get stuff done is to sit down at the control console and tell work to happen.

But that's a future that is in the past of our heroes. They no longer should have to grumble about wearing a spacesuit, as taking a spacewalk ought to be as simple as taking the dog to her evening rounds. And in TAS, it is. Perhaps that's how spacewalks happen in most of the Federation, and Kirk's mission to the far frontier is an exception in featuring "excessive" protective measures - the difference between what to wear for -30C winter days in downtown Ottawa and in Antarctica.

When it comes to saucer-power, I always go back to "The Alternative Factor" when Lazarus steals dilithium from an engineering room that appears to be powering the ship even while in orbit; I surmised this was an impulse engine room and the dilithium was being used for the impulse drive.
It should be remembered that the dilithium in that adventure was essentially down for the count - it was being hospitalized because of what the interuniverse hiccups had done to it. IMHO, what we saw was a dilithium hospital, meaning that when the Lazari stole the (almost but not quite healed) crystals, they didn't deprive the ship of any of her currently available power (since everything still worked like it previously had - it took some effort to even notice that the dilithium was gone), merely of power that should have been available later on.

Doesn't mean I would disbelieve in things like saucer warp drive...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Most modern ships have some form of emergency steering to allow navigating the ship if control from the bridge is lost in any way. It makes sense that the TOS-E would have a similar capacity, regardless of separability.
 
It would make sense in ancient terms, too. Ever since the connection between the helmsman and the rudder ceased to be the direct "tiller-of-the-rudder-in-the-armpit" one, there have been various emergency procedures for making the rudder do its vital job even when the connecting machinery fails or the other end of it is knocked out of action. Certainly the audiences of TOS would recall or be informed of WWII era arrangements where forcing the rudder to turn or forcing the machinery to provide asymmetric thrust were commonplace in even the smallest vessels.

But there would be more to TOS navigation and operation than mere steering. Remote/emergency control of the powerplant would probably be even more vitally important than remote/emergency control of propulsion. Few vessels of yesterday or even today have that. And emergency measures to keep life support working even when key control facilities are lost might be the most important of all, yet those are basically absent from today's vessels, aircraft and vehicles.

Timo Saloniemi
 
It would make sense in ancient terms, too. Ever since the connection between the helmsman and the rudder ceased to be the direct "tiller-of-the-rudder-in-the-armpit" one, ...
Of course, I just was trying to be terse in my comments and not give in to my pedantic nature. :lol:
But there would be more to TOS navigation and operation than mere steering.
Didn't mean to suggest otherwise; just providing a RL analogy to Aux Control. If you look closely at the human-machine interface(HMI) in the provided link, you can see that much more than just mere steering is going on. There is a digital compass, engine order telegraph, even an automatic pilot. Undoubtedly, other HMI have radar and other navigation info.
 
Here's an interesting feature from the U.S.S. Enterprise Officer's Manual (supposed to have been illustrated by Doug Drexler and Geoffrey Mandel, written by Mandel, in 1980):

According to the schematic that illustrates Primary Hull separation...

  • the "interconnecting dorsal fin" (the Enterprise's "neck") is supposed to act as a landing leg during saucer planetfall. In other words, this "neck" separates with the saucer.
  • the upper 3 or 4 decks, called the "Bridge module", are supposed to detach and serve as a ship's "lifeboat".
  • The "Bridge module" contains tiny landing legs and "Descent Engines", but the saucer only has a couple landing legs and the large impulse engines. (There is also mention of an anti-grav system embedded in the saucer's lower outer ring; presumably this is for levitating the ship.)
  • A couple of details I do recall from '80: Mandell and Drexler supposedly added a feature wherein the lower vortex of the saucer extends to become a support pillar and turbolift extension for ship-to-planet-surface-access.

Can anyone confirm that Mandel and Drexler were responsible for this fandom publication?

Also, does anyone know where they got the idea that the dorsal/neck detached with the saucer?

Since this was a good seven years before TNG's debut, and thus seven years before the notion of "saucer sep" was ever demonstrated in canon (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint"), it would seem that Mandel and Drexler got their idea from somewhere, dating back to TOS. It would also seem to indicate that Auxiliary Control would have yet another use, if the so-called "Bridge module" were jettisoned as its own quasi-independent "lifeboat", it could be left in orbit to serve as a kind of improvised orbital command post or space station while the rest of the saucer would be free to either make planetfall or journey to some other destination. If the TOS Enterprise possessed something like TMP-style Travel Pods, and the saucer and "Bridge module" both had the facility to dock with said pods, then the pods could be used for transportation between the saucer and the jettisoned module.
 
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Though I don't know for sure, I expect that they figured out the neck goes with the saucer on their own. It is logical if you accept those two triangles as the landing legs, then the neck is where the third one should have been, but couldn't be, what with the neck there and all. Also, the neck does have a vaguely aerodynamic shape and I could see it acting as a vertical stabilizer.

And, I figure they then deduced, from the height of the neck that the legs would have to fold down as far as that the make a level platform, and also that they would lack the strength to hold up the weight of the saucer on their own, so the lower sensor dome is telescoped down to provide a landing pedestal, C-57D style.

At least, again, so I would assume.

--Alex
 
It's a nice concept, but seems a bit over-engineered for a last-ditch emergency procedure. All those thrusters, deck divisions, docking systems, airlocks, telescopic lift machinery etc sitting in place year after year, taking up space and maintenance resources and probably never getting used. This sort of set up is more in keeping with the kind of scenario that Wingsley proposed upthread, with the saucer acting as a kind of local exploration vehicle. The detachable Bridge unit (see also Fireball XL5!) as a planetary lander would further support this role, with the option of the saucer landing as well if the situation demanded it. The secondary hull would be limited to interstellar duties only, in this scenario.

I like it, but it's not the Star Trek we got on our TVs every week.
 
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; quite possibly warp travel is possible without impulse engines, but still it seems possible and even probable that a separation would leave everything but the saucer so much inert space junk.
If the separation occures owing to a problem with the saucer, then the engineering section becomes the "life boat," having the means of going to warp would be advisable.

The impulse engines supposedly are separated along with the saucer
Maybe there a option to have it either way.

pUj4jLr.jpg


:)
 
Why would the lack of impulse engines be a problem? We know from onscreen dialogue that ships can manoeuvre using their warp engines (TUC):

KIRK: Estimate damage on Lexington, Spock.
SPOCK: Hit in engineering section. Possible damage to her impulse engines. She's still manoeuvrable on warp drive.

In The Cage, Spock also states that the Enterprise has some type of rocket power:

SPOCK: Address intercraft.
GARISON: Open, sir.
SPOCK: This is the acting captain speaking. We have no choice now but to consider the safety of this vessel and the remainder of the crew. We're leaving. All decks prepare for hyperdrive. Time warp factor.
TYLER: Mister Spock, the ship's controls have gone dead.
(The lights go out)
SPOCK: Engine room!
GARISON: Open.
SPOCK: Mister Spock here. Switch to rockets. We're blasting out.
 
I'm usually willing to dismiss details from pilot episodes. Too much not really ironed out. there are bits of "Encounter at Farpoint" that I handwave away also.

--Alex
 
T-Girl, I have that exact same graphic novel! It was an interesting artistic choice and one clearly influenced by the Enterprise-D. I wonder if the artist ever considered how the saucer would move following separation - manoeuvring thrusters only, presumably!

MarsWeeps, its interesting that you should bring that quote up, because I believe "rockets" is a reference to manoeuvring thrusters as well, at least when viewed retrospectively from the POV of the rest of the series. At the time the script was doubtless referring to the "atomic impulse rockets" that we heard mentioned in the early version of the series bible. However, the way that Impulse Engines are used in subsequent episodes there is just no way that they can be of that technology. There's a strong argument that Impulse Engines are lower performance field based FTL drive, but even if you don't buy that then a simple atomic rocket would never be able to accelerate a starship to 0.25c without requiring several million tonnes of fuel!

So, where are TOS Enterprise's manoeuvring thrusters you ask? Viewers are accustomed to TMP and TNG style RCS packages at key points on the perimeter of ships, but Nutrek presents a different option - numerous tiny thrusters scattered around the hull which go unnoticed most of the time, only visible when active and glowing red hot. Such an option is must safer in terms of redundancy and unit failure, plus it would allow for more precise manometers where needed. I have no trouble believing that they would also be able to "blast" a ship out of orbit in the way that Cage-Spock had hoped for.
 
Using the warp drive to generate a warp field to lower the effective mass of the starship to boost impulse efficiency would not make the impulse engines FTL anything, just as a diffuser does not make a car an airplane.
 
Ur no, I'm pretty sure I never said that, so I agree! :)

However, Impulse Engines that can power a shuttlecraft fast enough to chase a warp driven starship (Menagerie) or cross interstellar distances in days (WNMHGB) or allow the Romulans to start, fight and lose a solar system spanning war in mere years all strongly indicate that Warp Engines are not the only way to achieve FTL velocity. There's numerous other examples but that's not really the point I was trying to make, which was more to do with how the saucer could carry the crew safely to anywhere without the benefit of Warp Engines.

The "are Impulse Engines a FTL drive?" is a whole other debate!
 
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