Auxiliary Control
- Thread starter Wingsley
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If you look on the Memory Alpha article for "Auxiliary Control", you'll see a scene from "The Changeling" in which Kirk and Spock converse with Nomad in that room. Spock operates a hooded viewer there, researching information during the conversation.
I assume this would take that part of the table into an improvised science station. (Or, as FJ might call it, "Command Intelligence".) I do not recall seeing this hooded viewer in any of the other visits to this facility. (I just checked TrekCore's screencaps for "The Way to Eden", and it doesn't seem to be there.)
I assume this would take that part of the table into an improvised science station. (Or, as FJ might call it, "Command Intelligence".) I do not recall seeing this hooded viewer in any of the other visits to this facility. (I just checked TrekCore's screencaps for "The Way to Eden", and it doesn't seem to be there.)
It would really be neat to re-imagine this facility in terms of a TMP-era refit; not just the chairs, but everything else. I could see the tabletop control panels being replaced by something like a scaled-down version of Scott's main Engineering console.
For what it's worth to the discussion, the (non-canon admittedly) PC adventure game Star Trek: 25th Anniversary treated the auxilary control room on the USS Republic as literally a second bridge, ala the 'Battle Bridge' on 1701-D, only more compact. Although the one actually seen on the TOS TV series wasn't really much like the main bridge at all (at least in the physical sense).
If it's anything like the 'Battle Bridge', then it might have only a limited set of functions compared to the 'main' bridge, although the implication of the aux bridge appearances in TOS was that you could in a pinch fully run a starship from there.
If it's anything like the 'Battle Bridge', then it might have only a limited set of functions compared to the 'main' bridge, although the implication of the aux bridge appearances in TOS was that you could in a pinch fully run a starship from there.
I found a single grainy image:
http://www.startrekvids.com/pyts.cache/pic.8855.jpg
(Squint and you might be able to make out some details.
)In any case, that version at least doesn't look much like the auxilary control from the TV series... but it does look more credibly like an alternative bridge. Bare in mind that in the scenario in the game we aren't seeing it at it's best, as the USS Republic has been severely damaged in battle and everywhere you travel on the ship is in a state of disrepair, auxilary control included.
Why should it be steerable at all? The impulse engines supposedly are separated along with the saucer; quite possibly warp travel is possible without impulse engines, but still it seems possible and even probable that a separation would leave everything but the saucer so much inert space junk.
It's a bit like speculating that there must be some sort of a spare steering column within the fuselage of a B-1A or a B-70 or an F-111 so that the plane can still be flown after the cockpit pod has been ejected...
Timo Saloniemi
Why would the lack of impulse engines be a problem? We know from onscreen dialogue that ships can manoeuvre using their warp engines (TUC):
Also, nothing's ever been said to exclude the use of warp engines at sublight speed. In fact, The Phoenix seemed to use her "warp core" to build up to the speed of light at a very slow rate of acceleration!
Also, nothing's ever been said to exclude the use of warp engines at sublight speed. In fact, The Phoenix seemed to use her "warp core" to build up to the speed of light at a very slow rate of acceleration!
It wouldn't.
...Why split the ship in two if you wish to continue using both halves? If two ships are preferable, there'd be little point in welding them together for most of their service life.
The "saucer is a lifeboat" idea is basically diametrically opposite to the "warp section keeps on flying" one. If you launch the lifeboat, you don't also remain behind in the ship section that you so desperately want to flee from. And if you don't want to flee from the warp section, you don't launch the lifeboat.
On a separate note, if impulse engines are unnecessary, why does Starfleet put them on starships?
Timo Saloniemi
The "saucer is a lifeboat" idea is basically diametrically opposite to the "warp section keeps on flying" one. If you launch the lifeboat, you don't also remain behind in the ship section that you so desperately want to flee from. And if you don't want to flee from the warp section, you don't launch the lifeboat.
On a separate note, if impulse engines are unnecessary, why does Starfleet put them on starships?
Timo Saloniemi
I would argue that impulse engines are lower-tech, more reliable and sustainable form of propulsion, particularly at sub-light speeds. If nothing else it provides a backup to the ship as a whole, and if the saucer is to be used as a lifeboat then it will need some method of getting to safety.
Under ideal circumstances the saucer would be used as the lifeboat, since it contains most of the living quarters and other features desirable in a long term evacuation scenario. But it also makes sense to consider the secondary hull as a option in the event that the saucer is damaged or destroyed.
And that extra Auxiliary Control room has to go somewhere
Under ideal circumstances the saucer would be used as the lifeboat, since it contains most of the living quarters and other features desirable in a long term evacuation scenario. But it also makes sense to consider the secondary hull as a option in the event that the saucer is damaged or destroyed.
And that extra Auxiliary Control room has to go somewhere
Could be that Impulse Engines and Warp engines are fundamentally the same thing, but Warp engines work efficiently at very high speeds, while impulse engines are only suited for very low speeds.
It's like a car's transmission. The Impulse engines are first gear. Warp one is second gear and on up. You can start your car from a stop in second if you have too. Maybe even third. But you don't drive down the highway in first.
--Alex
It's like a car's transmission. The Impulse engines are first gear. Warp one is second gear and on up. You can start your car from a stop in second if you have too. Maybe even third. But you don't drive down the highway in first.
--Alex
That's....unlikely.
Why not? The lack of visible impulse exhaust on so many ships would suggest that Impulse engines must operate on a field manipulation principle similar to warp engines and not any kind of conventional rocketry.
If indeed we are to believe that a subspace field can reduce an object's apparent mass and produce nested fields to impart a propulsive effect, then why shouldn't that principle be applied to lower energy STL as well as much bigger FTL engines?
Makes sense to me.
--Alex
I'm having trouble remembering the context into which Kirk's suggestion to seperate the ship in "The Apple" was given... was the Enterprise in danger of falling into a decaying orbit or something like that? 
(Haven't seen that episode in a long time...)
Whatever the case, I don't think the implication was supposed to be that the primary and secondary hulls were expected to both survive, so the concept of auxilary control being wired up to pilot the stardrive section ala TNG and the battle bridge seems unlikely. I gather that the aux control section really was designed more as a secondary control center for the entire ship in the event of access to the main bridge becoming compromised (either through a enviromental fault, technological fault, or through hostile take-over).
The thing I gathered from "The Apple" scenario was that you could evacuate all personel to the saucer, and then drop the mass of the secondary hull, and therefore the saucer would escape the decaying orbit and exist as a kind of self-sustaining enviroment in space until help could arrive.
So it'd be more like the Generations scenario, except without some ditzy Betazoid driving the ship into the planet anyway.
(Haven't seen that episode in a long time...)Whatever the case, I don't think the implication was supposed to be that the primary and secondary hulls were expected to both survive, so the concept of auxilary control being wired up to pilot the stardrive section ala TNG and the battle bridge seems unlikely. I gather that the aux control section really was designed more as a secondary control center for the entire ship in the event of access to the main bridge becoming compromised (either through a enviromental fault, technological fault, or through hostile take-over).
The thing I gathered from "The Apple" scenario was that you could evacuate all personel to the saucer, and then drop the mass of the secondary hull, and therefore the saucer would escape the decaying orbit and exist as a kind of self-sustaining enviroment in space until help could arrive.
So it'd be more like the Generations scenario, except without some ditzy Betazoid driving the ship into the planet anyway.
The ship could be controlled from main engineering as well, and if that's in the, you know, engineering hull, then you could control the secondary hull from there without having to go to any secondary bridge. Unlike the Ent-D, the TOS Ent seemed designed to separate only in an emergency.
The situation where Kirk mentions saucer separation is that Vaal is trying to drag the ship down from orbit, and Scott (as always) is having engine trouble (this week it is the antimatter pods which aren't working).
Are the nacelles themselves independently ejectable, or does Kirk refer to discarding the entire engineering hull (shuttlebay, nacelles and all)? The loss of mass would probably make the Impulse Engines that bit more effective. However, what's interesting is that Scotty describes the separation process as being almost as dangerous as tying all available ship's power in to the Impulse Engines. Maybe mass isn't that much of a factor after all, and deliberately breaking the ship in half is something that runs contrary to an engineer's very soul?!
Well dropping the nacelles or the secondary hull is major and probably final (save if they can mange to get all the pieces to a starbase or drydock to be reattached). Pushing with everything she has is almost as risky. If the later fails the ship is still intact, but probably won't make it into a stable orbit much less leave the planet.
Dropping mass might help, but one assumes that dropping the nacelles and or secondary hull also losses the power systems in those areas (depending on just how one views the engine and power generations systems of the old Enterprise). The nacelles should be needed to go to warp speed (unless of course the impulse unit can make an older style warp field for emergency low warp speeds.) And the warp drive power systems are probably in the secondary hull (except when they are in the primary hull...though that might be Engineering rather than the warp drive/core).
The secondary hull should be able to act as a lifeboat if the saucer is wrecked and unihabitable. That doesn't mean they would need to drop the saucer and run, but they would need an auxiliary control area in a habitable area of the ship.
Dropping mass might help, but one assumes that dropping the nacelles and or secondary hull also losses the power systems in those areas (depending on just how one views the engine and power generations systems of the old Enterprise). The nacelles should be needed to go to warp speed (unless of course the impulse unit can make an older style warp field for emergency low warp speeds.) And the warp drive power systems are probably in the secondary hull (except when they are in the primary hull...though that might be Engineering rather than the warp drive/core).
The secondary hull should be able to act as a lifeboat if the saucer is wrecked and unihabitable. That doesn't mean they would need to drop the saucer and run, but they would need an auxiliary control area in a habitable area of the ship.
Right, I'm with it now.
If I remember correctly, although the words 'saucer seperation' weren't used, GR subsequently clarified (on the seventies convention circuit?) that this is what the emergency maneuver was.
It sounds very much to me like this is one of those things that started out as a small detail, but became something much bigger later on as the idea took on a life of its own (something stardestroyernet called 'Brain Bugs'). The way "The Apple" describes it, makes it sound like seperating the saucer isn't even in the rule book, it's just something which Kirk makes up on the spot as a possible solution to the problem at hand (ie, Vaal)... it's possible that, in this context, there might not even be a way to reattach the saucer after such a 'seperation'. I don't doubt that the basic premise is that the primary hull can be saved, but the secondary hull becomes useless/gets sacrificed. It may not be a TNG-esque situation whereupon a dedicated crew can take control of each section and pilot them independently of one another.
(On a side note, I can imagine Scotty's despair at having to abandon his beloved engines for the sake of saving the saucer!
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