So how much would have quality SFX in TFF helped the movie to you?

[JonnyQuest037]

That was my college roommate's big argument for them making a STVI back in 1990/91: "I don't want the last-ever scene of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy to be them singing 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat' badly."

Amen! I felt exactly the same way! Pretty sure I said the same thing more than once.

(I'd wonder if I was your college roommate, except I was well past college by the time ST V came out!)

OMG... SCOTT?!? How've you been, man? Why didn't you ever tell me you were writing Star Trek novels under a pseudonym for all these years? I could've helped!

 

[Orphalesion]

You didn't enjoy summer camp, did you?

I'm not American, us Aussies have our own songs . The first time I heard "Row your boat" was out of Barney the Dinosaur's stinking mouth, which probably tainted my opinion of it. Plus I don't like songs that are sung in a round, you can't make out the lyrics and it always ends up in a cacophony.
Though I do like "I Like the Flowers" somewhat more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All I can say, as someone who still watches TOS episodes for pleasure, is that I don't remember my Trekkie friends and I complaining about the SFX at the time. We had plenty of issues with the movie, but the cheap SFX weren't the problem. I don't even remember them being discussed. It was just a mess of movie.

This is my recollection as well.

Same here. Better SFX wasn't going to improve the story. The SFX were serviceable.

 

[eyeresist]

You didn't enjoy summer camp, did you?

I'm not American, us Aussies have our own songs

"Row your boat" is surely a better choice than "Tie me kangaroo down"!

I think the point of the song was that it was nostalgic, and something that had to be sung by a group. Also, "life is but a dream" has a poetic appeal even if, as Spock points out, it is not logical.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Also, "life is but a dream" has a poetic appeal even if, as Spock points out, it is not logical.

Well, it'd been a while since he'd been to Talos IV.

 

[eyeresist]

I guess Spock, in his maturity, has decided that "Nothing unreal exists."

 

[ConRefit79]

Personally, I think it would help it a great deal. The effects seem OK until you get to Nimbus III. But they would still need to edit out some of the more cringe worthy attempts at injecting humor.

I watched it again this weekend and thought it is still closer to TOS than the other films. Not saying I prefer it to TWOK, but it felt like a TOS episode to me.

BTW, anyone else have issues playing the Directors cut DVD's on a Blu Ray Player. I could not get mine to play it. The play was jerky and there's no sound. This junk pile has already tried my patience many times. It might get the Office Space treatment soon.

 

[eyeresist]

I don't have the blu-ray, but as far as I know there is no director's cut of TFF, just the theatrical version.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm a fan of STV, and think better FX would make no difference. I'm a fan of TOS too, and the FX there are pretty bad by today's standards (original and CG versions)

 

[Galileo7]

Better effects would've helped TFF, but then I'm going through a bit of an epiphany regarding TFF.

I used to have the mainstream reaction to the film, but when I last saw it a few months ago during my franchise run-through, I experienced a sort of awakening to it.

Now, I actually like the film though I recognize its flaws.

And I think the main reason I do like TFF is the relationship of Kirk, Spock and Bones.

If there's ONE THING that TFF did well was in its handling of the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship. I don't think they ever spent as much time together in any of the movies as they did here.

Viewing it with my Kirk, Spock & McCoy goggles, it's easy to forgive a lot...

Well said.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

All I can say, as someone who still watches TOS episodes for pleasure, is that I don't remember my Trekkie friends and I complaining about the SFX at the time. We had plenty of issues with the movie, but the cheap SFX weren't the problem. I don't even remember them being discussed. It was just a mess of movie.

This is my recollection as well.

Same here. Better SFX wasn't going to improve the story. The SFX were serviceable.

Serviceable?!?!?!? really?
I've heard the SFX in TFF called a lot of things, but serviceable or anything better is not one of them.

You can debate if better SFX would have helped make the film better or more watchable or not....but I'm sorry only the most die hard ST defender would say the SFX that were anything else but complete and utter crap....especially given the level of effects that had been displayed in previous films.

TFF came out in 1989.
2001 came out in 1968- 21 years before TFF
Star Wars came out in 1977- 12 years before TFF
TMP came out in 1979- 10 years before TFF
TWOK came out in 1982- 7 years before TFF

Comparing the effects in TFF to any of these films, ranging from 7 to 21 years older, is ludicrous. They aren't even in the same universe. It's not even like you can make an analogy between something like cars saying one's a corvette and the other a ford focus. It's more like these other films are corvettes and TFF is a piece of dirt by comparison.

And don't give me the "The other films had a bigger budget or ILM wasn't available excuse". Star Wars was shot on a shoestring and they basically had to create everything, from models to cameras to computers....from scratch. TWOK had a smaller budget than TFF. I'm not sure about 2001 but even if the budget was bigger....it's STILL 21 years older.

In real life in 21 years we went from not even being able to cross the pacific non stop in a jet liner, to landing on the moon!!!!!

TMP is the only film of these you can say had a major budget advantage...but it was still 10 years older.

And yeah ILM wasn't available, but by 1989 SFX wasn't the little unknown niche company it had been before Star Wars, there were several up and coming effects companies. Yes ILM was the undisputed king, but they were hardly the only decent option.

They picked a shitty effects guy pure and simple and none bothered to keep tabs on his work until it was too late and it showed in spades.

The shot of the Enterprise jumping to warp just ahead of the BOP torpedo and the Enterprise firing its photon torpedo at "God" are perhaps the two worst ST effects of all time, and the others aren't far behind.

You could even argue that, given the time and budget constraints, the effects on TOS were vastly superior.

Debate if better effects would have made a difference or not but please don't ignore the obvious and say the effects were "serviceable" when they were complete shit and an embarrassment to the franchise.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Had ILM worked on The Final Frontier, it might've struck audiences that maybe Shatner's valentine to Kirk, here, was actually intelligent satire. I don't know that I would've viewed it as that, but fine, quality effects in this movie would've helped me more appreciate this, uh ... this film.

 

[Khan 2.0]

You could even argue that, given the time and budget constraints, the effects on TOS were vastly superior.

I remember reading someone's review at the time (maybe in the letters pages of TOFC magazine or the DC comics) saying that they thought the energy barrier in WNMHGB was more menacing and the FX better than the Great Barrier!

I suppose it was a somewhat similar situation to what happened with TMP they first company they it couldn't do it right so they had to get the Star Wars guy. But this I guess they probably assumed the model FX wouldn't be a problem for someone in 89.. I believe they hired Ferren for his work on delivering a suitable test for the Great Barrier/God light show FX and with all the similar water whirlpool FX hed done on Altered States. That film had a religious/god type theme so maybe Shatner or someone felt that was the way to go for TFFs FX

 

[Disco]

Never mind TFF. SFX and a less rushed battle sequence would have improved TWOK.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

You could even argue that, given the time and budget constraints, the effects on TOS were vastly superior.

I remember reading someone's review at the time (maybe in the letters pages of TOFC magazine or the DC comics) saying that they thought the energy barrier in WNMHGB was more menacing and the FX better than the Great Barrier!

I suppose it was a somewhat similar situation to what happened with TMP they first company they it couldn't do it right so they had to get the Star Wars guy. But this I guess they probably assumed the model FX wouldn't be a problem for someone in 89.. I believe they hired Ferren for his work on delivering a suitable test for the Great Barrier/God light show FX and with all the similar water whirlpool FX hed done on Altered States. That film had a religious/god type theme so maybe Shatner or someone felt that was the way to go for TFFs FX

Well from what I've read Ferrien put on some presentation that apparently dazzled Shatner and maybe some others, I don't know who else was involved and I don't know what Ferrien did that was so impressive.

Whatever it was they said you're our guy and they basically let him go to work. Only no one, not Shatner, not Bennett, or anybody else from Paramount bothered to really check in from time to time and say "Let's see how the shots are coming along" and when they first saw the completed shots they were horrified, but by then it was too late to do anything.

So it's a combo screw up in my opinion. Ferrien wasn't competent enough to do, what were for the most relatively easy effects shots, and Paramount wasn't on the ball to keep tabs on it and just assumed that, like ILM, he would do a great job.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Never mind TFF. SFX and a less rushed battle sequence would have improved TWOK.

Please tell me this is an early April fools joke.

 

[Khan 2.0]

You could even argue that, given the time and budget constraints, the effects on TOS were vastly superior.

I remember reading someone's review at the time (maybe in the letters pages of TOFC magazine or the DC comics) saying that they thought the energy barrier in WNMHGB was more menacing and the FX better than the Great Barrier!

I suppose it was a somewhat similar situation to what happened with TMP they first company they it couldn't do it right so they had to get the Star Wars guy. But this I guess they probably assumed the model FX wouldn't be a problem for someone in 89.. I believe they hired Ferren for his work on delivering a suitable test for the Great Barrier/God light show FX and with all the similar water whirlpool FX hed done on Altered States. That film had a religious/god type theme so maybe Shatner or someone felt that was the way to go for TFFs FX

Well from what I've read Ferrien put on some presentation that apparently dazzled Shatner and maybe some others, I don't know who else was involved and I don't know what Ferrien did that was so impressive.

Whatever it was they said you're our guy and they basically let him go to work. Only no one, not Shatner, not Bennett, or anybody else from Paramount bothered to really check in from time to time and say "Let's see how the shots are coming along" and when they first saw the completed shots they were horrified, but by then it was too late to do anything.

So it's a combo screw up in my opinion. Ferrien wasn't competent enough to do, what were for the most relatively easy effects shots, and Paramount wasn't on the ball to keep tabs on it and just assumed that, like ILM, he would do a great job.

maybe they should've just gone with ILMs 'D' team (as has been stated by Ralph Winter in various magazines, books etc - that the reason they didn't go with ILM is theyd have had their 'D' team as the top men were working on Ghostbusters 2, Indy 3, BTTF2 etc and that the 'D' team didn't impress with the test FX for 'God') but even their 'D' team surely would've got the model FX to the standard of the previous films, (instead of Ferren having to figure out how ILM had done the model FX) they might've even had some of the 'A' team help out on certain things inbetween working on the other films..(especially since the majority of workers will have been die hard Trek fans)

Only no one, not Shatner, not Bennett, or anybody else from Paramount bothered to really check in from time to time

imagines Ferren reminiscing about working on TFF 'No one bothered to check on our progress... It was only the fact of my superior coloured water tank FX work that allowed us to survive.. '

 

[Disco]

Never mind TFF. SFX and a less rushed battle sequence would have improved TWOK.

Please tell me this is an early April fools joke.

Not at all. Just a differing and minority opinion.

 

[Woulfe]

Let me tell you a story....

William Shatner was at the local sci-fi con here in Colorado before Star Trek V came out, he was really excited about it, he got us fans excited about it, he was really pumped up about the whole endevor....

Then the shoe dropped.... "The FX are being done on the East coast.... and no body knows what they look like"

Warning bells sounded off in the back of my head "No body knows what they look like" not a good thing in my book....

Flash Forward to me going to see it w/ a fellow fan & a few who never seen any Star Trek film before....

I had to clamp down on my tongue a lot while the film ran on & on, I could hear the comments afterwards in my head as the film went on, "These FX are why Star Trek is 2nd rate to Star Wars" is what I was hearing in my head as the film wore on....

The thing is if they had said just that, they would of been right, all my years of being a Star Trek fan I felt embarrassed to hold my head up high after all this mess came to an end....

These folks who'd never seen any Star Trek film up to then surprised me... THEY LIKED IT !

I still held my tongue as I was going to blurt out, if you thought that was good, wait 'till you see the other films....

Years later I warmed up to STV as I pretend the FX are better then what we get, the rest holds up pretty good as the triad's interaction is there where it's allways been....

The FX yea, are just 1 part of the problem, but if fans are gonna use the quality of FX in V as ammo to say "Our franchise is better then your franchise" it wouldn't do any harm to at least have something better than "Hey, that looks like it was done in someone's basement on the cheap"....

See, ILM being Star Trek fans would of at least done they're best to make it not look that cheap, even using the "D" team, I'm sure they would of knocked it out of the park....

I mean haven't we fans over the years been fighting against the very idea that Star Trek is cheap, and thereby hokey ?

Isn't that why Hollywood has turned it's collective nose up at Star Trek as a whole ?

Some still do calling it Star Track.... =P

Anyway the whole "You can see the wires" group would be right on the money w/ STV as it's pretty much falls into that hole, as it come off looking cheap, more so when you marathon the TOS movies....

Right after STIV you lead into this, then follow it w/ STVI it looks out of place as if someone said, hey you know of a bottom of the barrel FX company, yeah, let's use them....

It's almost as if it was planned, let's make it so Shatner has no career outside of Star Trek, we'll make sure we keep him on this forever, possibly worried they'd lose their MAIN STAR, if he wanted to go direct other things & not stick around for more Trek.....

If I were the tin-foil hat type, I could see that, but I'm not....

I do see how Hollywood had & continues to poo-poo Star Trek in general because in their minds it comes off as cheap & hokey
and as long as Star Trek V has bargain basement FX in it this will be true....

We don't see it that way as we're fans, but to an outsider, it will remain so....

Don't get me wrong, I can watch the film, like it for it's bigger idea that nearly got away from it's writer / director / star, what could of been, what might of been, had things gone better, but we're stuck w/ the end result, for good....

One area that can be fixed, yet we're all arguing if it should be done in the first place, but we seem to forget that the outside world will call ST cheap & hokey....

Don't tell me that the world outside has never done this....

 

[Christopher]

It's almost as if it was planned, let's make it so Shatner has no career outside of Star Trek, we'll make sure we keep him on this forever, possibly worried they'd lose their MAIN STAR, if he wanted to go direct other things & not stick around for more Trek.....

Well, at the time, he'd already spent four years as T.J. Hooker, and his (well, Ron Goulart's) novel TekWar came out the same year as TFF, so I'd say he already had a career outside of ST. And if that had been their intent, they certainly failed, since he's gone on to do the TekWar movies, Third Rock from the Sun, Boston Legal, the Priceline Negotiator, etc.

Besides, if you want to keep someone around to do your movies, you just put a clause in his contract committing him to future movies. That's actually pretty routine. So you're right -- it would be a pretty silly conspiracy theory.