Right now, in another reality, Spock's Brain is considered to be the best TOS episode and The City on The Edge of Forever is the worst.
Which episode(s) would you de-canonise?
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Right now, in another reality, Spock's Brain is considered to be the best TOS episode and The City on The Edge of Forever is the worst.
It's explained in the episode itself. The tradition dates from an ancient time before the Vulcan race embraced logic. And invoking the challenge, like T'Pring did, was something that hadn't been done in a LOOOOOOOOOONG time.
I can't watch it without thinking of the Space Ghost: Coast To Coast episode featuring Dick.
"Andy, Andy, you're making me sick! Andy, don't be a Spaaaaaace Dick!"
Of course it does. If I don't care for the direction Trek took in TNG, why wouldn't I choose to decanonize it?
"City on the Edge of Forever"
I kid, I kid.Though I do think it's overrated.
I really, really don't get what people find so great about that episode.
It has a nice, romantic name and the city and the guardian themselves are nice concepts and rather well designed (for TOS), but the plot?
First of all it takes place in the past, not really what I want to see if I tune into a show about space exploration. And then I don't buy that Kirk was in love with Edith Keeler. He had just met her, he felt a physical attraction, but that is all. And it ends with the standard "Status Quo is God" ending mandatory for 60s television in that they can't stay together because Kirk has to be single for the next Yeoman/Alien.
Not really that spectacular.
Not necessarily less colourful, but rather it made the colours match and stopped assaulting the viewer's eyes with bright primaries.
(I know you didn't mean it literally, I just couldn't resist
)
"City on the Edge of Forever"
I kid, I kid.
I really, really don't get what people find so great about that episode.
It has a nice, romantic name and the city and the guardian themselves are nice concepts and rather well designed (for TOS), but the plot?
First of all it takes place in the past, not really what I want to see if I tune into a show about space exploration. And then I don't buy that Kirk was in love with Edith Keeler. He had just met her, he felt a physical attraction, but that is all. And it ends with the standard "Status Quo is God" ending mandatory for 60s television in that they can't stay together because Kirk has to be single for the next Yeoman/Alien.
Not really that spectacular.
FINALLY somebody agrees with me. I may dance!
Well, all except that "status quo is God"part. I actually prefer stories to end with that.
And all the good guys have goatees....
Wow and here I was prepared to come back to this thread and have at least three people jump at my throat for daring to criticize "City on the Edge of Forever"
Well, why I do prefer stories with lasting consequences and continuity, the "status quo is God" part was not really a critique of the episode and more on the idea many people have that Edith Keeler had some special place among Kirk's love interests of the week. If the whole thing had gone beyond this episode, or if he had been stuck in the 1930s for years and years and had built a life wit her only to have to sacrifice it to set history right I could understand it, but as it is she is just "Random Love Interest Nr.X" with ridiculous soft focus in all her closeups who gets dismissed by the end of the episode and has no greater part in the series than, for instance, the green haired gladiator lady Kirk also flirted with. Nothing about her really stands out or distinguishes her, in my eyes.
One would think that such things would be banned under Federation law.
No, one wouldn't. Especially not in a Federation that allows the death penalty, both in Starfleet ("The Menagerie") and on member worlds according to local laws ("The Cloud Minders").
Wow and here I was prepared to come back to this thread and have at least three people jump at my throat for daring to criticize "City on the Edge of Forever"
Well, why I do prefer stories with lasting consequences and continuity, the "status quo is God" part was not really a critique of the episode and more on the idea many people have that Edith Keeler had some special place among Kirk's love interests of the week. If the whole thing had gone beyond this episode, or if he had been stuck in the 1930s for years and years and had built a life wit her only to have to sacrifice it to set history right I could understand it, but as it is she is just "Random Love Interest Nr.X" with ridiculous soft focus in all her closeups who gets dismissed by the end of the episode and has no greater part in the series than, for instance, the green haired gladiator lady Kirk also flirted with. Nothing about her really stands out or distinguishes her, in my eyes.
Oh, I don't care which episodes anyone likes or dislikes, it doesn't change my opinion about the ones that I like. There is more than enough Trek to go around, so enjoy!
BTW, love your avatar, that is a really great picture of Deanna/Marina.
That's right and I find your opinion on that very refreshing.
In my opinion Star Trek is really a setting, a setting all sorts of shows, movies, books and other type of storytelling media can be set in, of different tones, facets and approaches.
And thanks for liking my avatar. I looked at yours to see if Doohan's missing finger would be visible on it. I've always been wondering how they concealed it so well.
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I agree, the episode itself isn't any logical. I was quite shocked, when I've seen it for the first time. On the other side, it makes Spock even better- because he has managed to be a decent being, despite the society which apparently wasn't nice to him and isn't friendly to anyone. Woman as someone's property? WTF, seriously, WTF?!
My impression is that the Federation was always more of an alliance of worlds, each with their own customs and laws, than some overarching central authority.
Or at least that's how it was generally portrayed on TOS.
Yeah, I always took the UFP to basically be a United Nations for the space age.
Yet when the marriage party entered, weapons were carried it too.
Spock: "Captain, there is a thing that happens to Vulcans at this time. Almost an insanity, which you would no doubt find distasteful."
Up until the challenge, there was nothing "distasteful," so Spock must have been referring to ... what?
The real possibility of a challenge? Spock told Kirk that "in the distant past, Vulcans killed to win their mates," but Kirk might not have understood that the practice continues through to the modern day.
The challenge may indeed be rare, a fraction of one percent of the millions of Vulcan marriages each year, but still be invoked tens of thousands of times a year
Yet when the marriage party entered, weapons were carried it too.
Spock: "Captain, there is a thing that happens to Vulcans at this time. Almost an insanity, which you would no doubt find distasteful."
Up until the challenge, there was nothing "distasteful," so Spock must have been referring to ... what?
I assume that the weapons were largely ceremonial, as was the call for a potential challenger. It's like the part in most wedding ceremonies where the officiator asks if anyone present has any objections to the ceremony, "speak now or forever hold your peace," etc. When was the last time you actually saw somebody stand up and object to the union?
It's just part of the ritual.
As for the "distasteful" part, I think Spock was referring to his own feverish emotional state. He wasn't comfortable with all that stuff about "his blood burning" and all. He was warning them that they were going to see a less "logical," more primal side of Vulcan society than they were used to, not that armed combat was anticipated.
I don't think we were meant to deduce that the death-duels occur on Vulcan thousands of times a year!
Yep, absolutely.
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