Riker/Troi... do you wish they'd done something with it sooner?

[Orphalesion]

^ Voicing Demona in Gargoyles? She was in a few movies I think.

But yeah, would have been good to have her in DS9. That series could have done some pretty cool things with her character and she would have gotten to wear the better looking science uniform. Plus, aside from Dorn, wasn't she friends with Farrel (Jadzia)?

However then they would have had a LOT of characters. Someone would ave been relegated to little more than extra and I have the feeling it would either have been Troi or Jadzia.
Would there have been a triangle relationship between Jadzia, Troi and Worf?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Yes! I forgot that Troi & Jadzia were friends in real life. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Marina was putting in a good word for Michael Dorn, if Terry Farrell was at all on the fence about going out with him. And you're probably right, Orphalesion, about the cast growing too large and even being too dominated by TNG, for it to be its own show, in its own right. But for Troi to visit the station, just one time in The Break-up Episode, would be so cool! Where Worf has to break it too her that, even though he values her friendship, she's just too much gas for the ass and Geograpically Unqualified with all of her Boldly Going ... to truly expect theirs to be a meaningful relationship, anymore. See, had they done that, at least it would've - retroactively - given their romance in TNG some meaning and significance, which it was sorely lacking in, otherwise ...

 

[borgboy]

Yes! I forgot that Troi & Jadzia were friends in real life. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Marina was putting in a good word for Michael Dorn, if Terry Farrell was at all on the fence about going out with him. And you're probably right, Orphalesion, about the cast growing too large and even being too dominated by TNG, for it to be its own show, in its own right. But for Troi to visit the station, just one time in The Break-up Episode, would be so cool! Where Worf has to break it too her that, even though he values her friendship, she's just too much gas for the ass and Geograpically Unqualified with all of her Boldly Going ... to truly expect theirs to be a meaningful relationship, anymore. See, had they done that, at least it would've - retroactively - given their romance in TNG some meaning and significance, which it was sorely lacking in, otherwise ...

As much as I love Troi I don't think she should've been on DS9 as a regular, it would've taken too much away from the established cast, but I'd have LOVED to have had her guest star in a few episodes. Bringing closure to her relationship with Worf would've made a lot of sense, I'd have liked to see her mediate between Worf and Alexander's problems - she is Alexander's godmother after all, they could've even done one episode with Riker and Troi's relationship moving forward with the DS9 crew running interference...there was definitely a few stories that could've been told with her on DS9.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Yes! I forgot that Troi & Jadzia were friends in real life. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Marina was putting in a good word for Michael Dorn, if Terry Farrell was at all on the fence about going out with him. And you're probably right, Orphalesion, about the cast growing too large and even being too dominated by TNG, for it to be its own show, in its own right. But for Troi to visit the station, just one time in The Break-up Episode, would be so cool! Where Worf has to break it too her that, even though he values her friendship, she's just too much gas for the ass and Geograpically Unqualified with all of her Boldly Going ... to truly expect theirs to be a meaningful relationship, anymore. See, had they done that, at least it would've - retroactively - given their romance in TNG some meaning and significance, which it was sorely lacking in, otherwise ...

As much as I love Troi I don't think she should've been on DS9 as a regular, it would've taken too much away from the established cast, but I'd have LOVED to have had her guest star in a few episodes. Bringing closure to her relationship with Worf would've made a lot of sense, I'd have liked to see her mediate between Worf and Alexander's problems - she is Alexander's godmother after all, they could've even done one episode with Riker and Troi's relationship moving forward with the DS9 crew running interference...there was definitely a few stories that could've been told with her on DS9.

She's Worf's stepsister (his word). So Worf can't marry her without committing stepincest...

 

[2takesfrakes]

She's Worf's stepsister (his word). So Worf can't marry her without committing stepincest...

Just because they're aliens, the writers make them say any stupid shit, like it can still fly. I hate it when they do that. But having a friend want to keep building more on the friendship than you do is a feeling a lot of us can relate to. And it's an awkward position to be put in, because you like things the way they are. It would've been more interesting, dramatically, if Deanna was putting Worf into that very situation, where he didn't really want things to change, but figured that maybe if he went along with it, she'd get it out of her system and their friendship could resume, as before. Instead, the Worf/Deanna romance simply exists, without any rhyme or reason to it ...

But then again, what does "Imzadi" even mean, when Will & Deanna aren't even really in an open relationship. They kind of stopped seeing eachother, before we even "met" them. Certainly when Soren came along, they were officially "over." But their being "Imzadi" was the only reason they were even capable of getting married, in the end, when neither of them could really "pull" like they did before and they knew that it was time to settle down.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

She's Worf's stepsister (his word). So Worf can't marry her without committing stepincest...

Just because they're aliens, the writers make them say any stupid shit, like it can still fly. I hate it when they do that. But having a friend want to keep building more on the friendship than you do is a feeling a lot of us can relate to. And it's an awkward position to be put in, because you like things the way they are. It would've been more interesting, dramatically, if Deanna was putting Worf into that very situation, where he didn't really want things to change, but figured that maybe if he went along with it, she'd get it out of her system and their friendship could resume, as before. Instead, the Worf/Deanna romance simply exists, without any rhyme or reason to it ...

But then again, what does "Imzadi" even mean, when Will & Deanna aren't even really in an open relationship. They kind of stopped seeing eachother, before we even "met" them. Certainly when Soren came along, they were officially "over." But their being "Imzadi" was the only reason they were even capable of getting married, in the end, when neither of them could really "pull" like they did before and they knew that it was time to settle down.

Not to mention that Deanna was initially supposed to marry another guy and that almost went through, so it's kinda strange because she was riker's "imzadi" whatever that means and at the same time arranged to marry someone else. Seems some people have trouble getting their ducks in a row...

 

[Lance]

I've had a theory for a while, that what we see in Insurrection with them reviving their relationship, and then with the marriage in Nemesis, is actually Troi entering 'The Phase'.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betazoid_phase

Having hit that awkward middle age all Betazoids get to where her sex drive gets quadrupled, and with the effects of the Brier Patch exacerbating both her own and Riker's feelings for each other, it's basically 'the right time' for them to marry.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I've had a theory for a while, that what we see in Insurrection with them reviving their relationship, and then with the marriage in Nemesis, is actually Troi entering 'The Phase'.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betazoid_phase

Having hit that awkward middle age all Betazoids get to where her sex drive gets quadrupled, and with the effects of the Brier Patch exacerbating both her own and Riker's feelings for each other, it's basically 'the right time' for them to marry.

plus in Nemesis she's had brain sex with Picard's clone...

 

[borgboy]

She's Worf's stepsister (his word). So Worf can't marry her without committing stepincest...

Just because they're aliens, the writers make them say any stupid shit, like it can still fly. I hate it when they do that. But having a friend want to keep building more on the friendship than you do is a feeling a lot of us can relate to. And it's an awkward position to be put in, because you like things the way they are. It would've been more interesting, dramatically, if Deanna was putting Worf into that very situation, where he didn't really want things to change, but figured that maybe if he went along with it, she'd get it out of her system and their friendship could resume, as before. Instead, the Worf/Deanna romance simply exists, without any rhyme or reason to it ...

But then again, what does "Imzadi" even mean, when Will & Deanna aren't even really in an open relationship. They kind of stopped seeing eachother, before we even "met" them. Certainly when Soren came along, they were officially "over." But their being "Imzadi" was the only reason they were even capable of getting married, in the end, when neither of them could really "pull" like they did before and they knew that it was time to settle down.

Not to mention that Deanna was initially supposed to marry another guy and that almost went through, so it's kinda strange because she was riker's "imzadi" whatever that means and at the same time arranged to marry someone else. Seems some people have trouble getting their ducks in a row...

Troi's engagement to Wyatt was arranged by their parents when they were children, something Troi had no say in, and doesn't seem at all committed to going thru with. She fell in love with Riker. Peter David's novel Imzadi details their early relationship and defines Imzadi as being the first person to touch your soul, basically your first love.

I always thought it strange that Betazoids, so in touch with emotions, would have a tradition of arranged marriages instead of marrying for love. For what it's worth, the Imzadi novel has a great scene where Deanna and Lwaxana have a discussion about Betazed arranged marriages, and Lwaxana explains that her own arranged engagement didn't work out because her fiancee was in a relationship with another man, so it seems that those arrangements can be broken.

I think it's an interesting suggestion that Troi was going into Phase in the later movies, that does make sense.

 

[borgboy]

I've had a theory for a while, that what we see in Insurrection with them reviving their relationship, and then with the marriage in Nemesis, is actually Troi entering 'The Phase'.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betazoid_phase

Having hit that awkward middle age all Betazoids get to where her sex drive gets quadrupled, and with the effects of the Brier Patch exacerbating both her own and Riker's feelings for each other, it's basically 'the right time' for them to marry.

plus in Nemesis she's had brain sex with Picard's clone...

I'd say it was brain rape, not sex.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I've had a theory for a while, that what we see in Insurrection with them reviving their relationship, and then with the marriage in Nemesis, is actually Troi entering 'The Phase'.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betazoid_phase

Having hit that awkward middle age all Betazoids get to where her sex drive gets quadrupled, and with the effects of the Brier Patch exacerbating both her own and Riker's feelings for each other, it's basically 'the right time' for them to marry.

plus in Nemesis she's had brain sex with Picard's clone...

I'd say it was brain rape, not sex.

Definitely.

 

[Enterprise1701]

KRAD must have been thinking of this fan criticism when he wrote Myriad Universes - A Gutted World, wherein alternate Riker and Troi get married not long after a near-parallel version of Star Trek: First Contact.

 

[borgboy]

KRAD must have been thinking of this fan criticism when he wrote Myriad Universes - A Gutted World, wherein alternate Riker and Troi get married not long after a near-parallel version of Star Trek: First Contact.

I haven't read that one yet. I look forward to it when I finally get there in my massive Trek read/watch - I'm only up to 1993 though.

I watched the Tom Riker episode of TNG last night - Second Chances I think is the name. It's a really good episode for Troi, but Will comes off looking like a bit of a jerk - but a complicated jerk. He clearly cares deeply for Troi and is all too aware of how Tom can hurt her, since Tom and Will are nearly the same person. It's a shame more wasn't done with Tom. When this episode came out I was really hoping Tom would come back and was ready for Troi to be with Tom since Will couldn't get his act together to be in a real relationship.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

KRAD must have been thinking of this fan criticism when he wrote Myriad Universes - A Gutted World, wherein alternate Riker and Troi get married not long after a near-parallel version of Star Trek: First Contact.

I haven't read that one yet. I look forward to it when I finally get there in my massive Trek read/watch - I'm only up to 1993 though.

I watched the Tom Riker episode of TNG last night - Second Chances I think is the name. It's a really good episode for Troi, but Will comes off looking like a bit of a jerk - but a complicated jerk. He clearly cares deeply for Troi and is all too aware of how Tom can hurt her, since Tom and Will are nearly the same person. It's a shame more wasn't done with Tom. When this episode came out I was really hoping Tom would come back and was ready for Troi to be with Tom since Will couldn't get his act together to be in a real relationship.

There's not much risk of that now that he's gonna spend the rest of his days in a Cardassian jail.

 

[Enterprise1701]

She could've transfered with Worf to DS9 and really screwed up the chain of command, being a full Commander

One of the alternate quantum realities featured in the novel Q&A is one where Troi married Worf and moved to Qo'noS with him when he became Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire.

I wonder if Worf has revealed in his report about his experience in quantum realities that in some of them Deanna and him were married with children? Honesty and thoroughness is supposed to be the mark of a starfleet officer, isn't it?

Worf must have explained that as the reason he started dating her. After all, Troi would have empathically sensed something on his mind that he needed to say.

She's Worf's stepsister (his word). So Worf can't marry her without committing stepincest...

I've never thought "stepsister" was the right term. Troi would be like a godmother to Alexander.

KRAD must have been thinking of this fan criticism when he wrote Myriad Universes - A Gutted World, wherein alternate Riker and Troi get married not long after a near-parallel version of Star Trek: First Contact.

I haven't read that one yet. I look forward to it when I finally get there in my massive Trek read/watch - I'm only up to 1993 though.

I watched the Tom Riker episode of TNG last night - Second Chances I think is the name. It's a really good episode for Troi, but Will comes off looking like a bit of a jerk - but a complicated jerk. He clearly cares deeply for Troi and is all too aware of how Tom can hurt her, since Tom and Will are nearly the same person. It's a shame more wasn't done with Tom. When this episode came out I was really hoping Tom would come back and was ready for Troi to be with Tom since Will couldn't get his act together to be in a real relationship.

There's not much risk of that now that he's gonna spend the rest of his days in a Cardassian jail.

Read The Fall - The Poisoned Chalice.

 

[borgboy]

I always did think that saying Troi would be like a stepsister to Worf because she was a kind of godmother to Alexander seemed strange, but it is an alien honorary relationship, so I just shrug and accept it's an alien thing. Giving Worf family ties to Lwaxana is pretty funny though.
I did like the family set up of Worf, Troi, Lwaxana and Alexander. Lwaxana and Alexander clearly adored each other in a grandparent/granchild kind of way that was really sweet. That big bad Worf is intimidated by Lwaxana is funny but understandable.

 

[Orphalesion]

I think "Stepsister" was simply the Klingon term for "Godmother" perhaps in Klingon culture, if children were orphaned they were traditionally raised by their aunts/uncles Klingons who had no brothers/sisters were perhaps able to nominate one of their friends as "Stepbrother"/"Stepsister" which did not imply a brother-sister relationship but more "you are now acting as my sister would in relation to my children"
...if tat makes sense. There are languages on earth that have similar quirks, though the only example I can think of right now is ancient Hebrew (I think) using the same word for cousins as it did for brothers/sisters.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Maybe "stepsister" means that they were going to tapdance together, you know like the stepbrothers...

 

[borgboy]

I think "Stepsister" was simply the Klingon term for "Godmother" perhaps in Klingon culture, if children were orphaned they were traditionally raised by their aunts/uncles Klingons who had no brothers/sisters were perhaps able to nominate one of their friends as "Stepbrother"/"Stepsister" which did not imply a brother-sister relationship but more "you are now acting as my sister would in relation to my children"
...if tat makes sense. There are languages on earth that have similar quirks, though the only example I can think of right now is ancient Hebrew (I think) using the same word for cousins as it did for brothers/sisters.

That's kind of what I was thinking, you just were more coherent in expressing the idea. I could see how the designated potential future guardian of your child could be seen as an adopted member of your family.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I think "Stepsister" was simply the Klingon term for "Godmother" perhaps in Klingon culture, if children were orphaned they were traditionally raised by their aunts/uncles Klingons who had no brothers/sisters were perhaps able to nominate one of their friends as "Stepbrother"/"Stepsister" which did not imply a brother-sister relationship but more "you are now acting as my sister would in relation to my children"
...if tat makes sense. There are languages on earth that have similar quirks, though the only example I can think of right now is ancient Hebrew (I think) using the same word for cousins as it did for brothers/sisters.

That's kind of what I was thinking, you just were more coherent in expressing the idea. I could see how the designated potential future guardian of your child could be seen as an adopted member of your family.

Deanna pointed out that her mother would be Worf's stepmother and it sent a chill down worf's spine...