I'm sure Reinhardt got a trial. I mean, are we supposed to believe that the Allies in the MCU gave Hermann Göring a trial, but not a commander in Hydra?
Well, to be cynical for a moment, a big difference between Göring and Reinhardt is that Göring was a known, public figure. Putting him on trial was a win-win for the Allies, both to show the world how guilty he was and how awesomely civilized we were.
Reinhardt, OTOH, was a member of a quasi-secret techno-cult sect. A lot easier to dump in a cell indefinitely with no one ever noticing, always on-call should interrogation ever prove desirable, and the flashback scene gave the pretty clear impression that that's exactly what was going on.
But why? I mean, seriously, what reason is there to think he wouldn't have been given a trial? It's not like the existence of Hydra during WW2 was a secret -- Cap's fight against Hydra is so much a part of public knowledge that it's part of a Smithsonian museum exhibit. And there were plenty of lower-level Nazis in real life who got trials instead of summary executions or summary imprisonments.
I think that the implication is that the SSR/SHIELD treated people like Reinhardt, who had dangerous knowledge about people and objects of power, the same way they treated the people and objects of power themselves...something to be locked away if necessary and hidden from the world.
On what basis do you come to this conclusion?
^One thing's fairly certain: When Skye finally meets up with her dad...one of the first things out of his mouth is quite possibly going to be her real name.
One of the last things, technically.
It is, indeed, conjecture. It's conjecture based upon...real history, upon the basic values the U.S. and U.K. were fighting for in World War II.
Yeah...I'm curious as to how, say, the internment of Japanese-Americans fits with the "we were better because we didn't use their methods" argument.
1. You left out the part where I said it's conjecture based upon
both real history and upon the principles for which SHIELD is supposed to stand.
2. The internment of Japanese Americans is an obvious violation of the basic principles of liberal democracy for which the U.S. and U.K. were fighting. It represents a point in American history where white supremacy won out over liberal democracy, and it's one of our nation's greatest sins.
It is also, however, something that happened during wartime panic amongst a population that was viciously racist, but which ended when the war did and was later understood to have been immoral. It did not last 45 years like Reinhardt's imprisonment--and Reinhardt wasn't captured until the end of the war.
Not saying the Allies were perfect, in real life or in the MCU. But it seems implausible that they would be so hypocritical without purpose, without anything to gain, when it's common knowledge that comparable Axis official received trials and sentences, and with neither a war going on (Reinhardt was captured at the end of the war) nor a racist motivation (Reinhardt being white) to spur them into immoral action.
And most of all... Nothing about those scenes in "The Things We Bury" in any way requires the SSR to be locking people up without a trial.
Well. I'd say he cares about Skye. That's very different from caring for Skye. I'm more inclined to view Grant's feelings towards Skye as being controlling and emotionally abusive than about being genuine love.
Because you don't kidnap someone you love.
Again, the "methods" argument.
No, that's not an argument about methods. It's a disagreement about whether or not Grant actually loves her. See, the thing about love is, if you
love someone, you don't kidnap them at gunpoint.
He is obsessed with her. He is fixated on her. He wants her to love him. He may feel affection for her. But he does not
love her. He's sick. He wants to control her. There's a difference.
As far as Ward's concerned, he loves her. He just has...a VERY bad way of showing it.
That's not true when people abuse their spouses, and it's not true when Grant kidnaps the women he's fixated with at gunpoint.
Well, to be cynical for a moment, a big difference between Göring and Reinhardt is that Göring was a known, public figure. Putting him on trial was a win-win for the Allies, both to show the world how guilty he was and how awesomely civilized we were.
Reinhardt, OTOH, was a member of a quasi-secret techno-cult sect. A lot easier to dump in a cell indefinitely with no one ever noticing, always on-call should interrogation ever prove desirable, and the flashback scene gave the pretty clear impression that that's exactly what was going on.
I don't for one second believe that Agent Carter would allow someone to be executed or imprisoned for life without a trial.
Perhaps her series will shed more light on this, but for now I find your abundance of faith...
unwarranted.
Agreed. To be blunt, the entire sequence between her and Reinhardt gave a VERY clear implication that she was flexing her proverbial muscles as an intelligence operative--using such "black ops" discretion to lock him up and throw away the key (which...kinda blows apart the "with a trial" idea, doesn't it...?).
I took it as, Agent Carter was making it clear that she would use her influence to prevent Reinhardt from being recruited into Operation Paperclip and thereby ensure that the court would have no reason to show him mercy, and would give him a life sentence.
Nothing about that scene requires Carter to be acting without judicial overview.
Again, I REALLY think, if that's the case, killing him would've been more efficient
Murdering powerless prisoners can be very efficient, true.
Just ask the Nazis.
Agreed. To be blunt, the entire sequence between her and Reinhardt gave a VERY clear implication that she was flexing her proverbial muscles as an intelligence operative--using such "black ops" discretion to lock him up and throw away the key (which...kinda blows apart the "with a trial" idea, doesn't it...?).
Or they already had the trial, and he was just trying to weasel out of the life sentence.
That is also a possibility. A pardon in exchange for working for the Allies/SSR/SHIELD.
^Nah, there would've been a line or something to that effect, I'd think.
You'd think there'd be a line about them locking up a man for 45 years without charge or trial in violation of the writ of habeas corpus, too.
More of Simmons finishing Fitz's sentences.
I liked that bit. And Leo is obviously proving to Jemma that he's capable of functioning at a high level again, even if he still has difficulty communicating verbally.
Act II:
"Cal", huh? Comic reference? (Guess we'll have to wait a bit for Skye's name...*sigh*)
I'm just glad we have a name. I don't like calling anyone just "the Doctor" if they don't live in the TARDIS.
He's actually kinda sweet in this scene, so help me.
Rush, I worry that you keep trying too hard to see things from the villains' points of view. I worry you keep forgetting that their points of view are, well,
wrong.
Cal wasn't being sweet. He was being manipulative when he wasn't being psychotic.
I wonder...do Skye's tears mean she's opening to him, now, perhaps?
I think it's more likely that she's reacting to the emotionally overwhelming experience of being kidnapped at gunpoint by a man she used to trust and have feelings for, only to be confronted with a long-lost father who is clearly
deranged and dangerous, combined with finally learning some of the mysteries of her own infancy.
It's a pretty awful situation. Most people would cry at some point.
Act III:
Nice to see more of Whitehall as a clever villain who's genre savvy.
Reinhardt is an awesome villain, yeah.
Hmm...33's like what Ward used to be--and Ward's pointing it out!
It was interesting to learn that Reinhardt's brainwashing device rendered people personally loyal to/worshipful of him, rather than to Hydra as an institution.
Guess you-know-who really is dead. Shame, in more ways than one.
Reed Diamond made for a really awesome bad guy. The show will be poorer without him around to be menacing.
At any rate...with Whitehall dead (RIP, Danny-boy...you were one awesome villain), I guess it means his cell of HYDRA's been cut down as a threat.
On the other hand...Cut Off One Head, and all that.
Yeah. I mean, having Hydra around gives the show a sense of structure that it lacked for much of Season One. I don't think they're gonna lose it any time soon -- though I suppose we may hear lines about how the Hydra cells SHIELD is going up against are mostly smaller cells, if they want to reserve the Hydra big guns for the movies.
What's left to wrap up?
1. Skye (Will we still call her that, or will she accept the name "Daisy"?)
She's made it pretty clear that she doesn't want a relationship with her mass-murdering father, and assuming the name "Skye" seems to have been a fairly important act of self-identification and self-liberation on her part. I see no reason why she would start defining her identity in terms set by a deranged, mass-murdering father whom she has rejected.
Let's face it: Coulson is her father, not Cal.
2. Coulson with his Kree blood issues--he was able to survive (and for a while, so was Trip...so there's a SLIGHT possibility that he's still okay, and just hasn't "broken out" yet). Will he have powers of his own? Even if not...I'd imagine he'd be the one most likely to be able to "rein in" Skye/Daisy...if her powers get out of hand.
I wish Trip were still around, but I am not optimistic. His entire head literally turned to dust.
3. I'd imagine, as far as Cal's concerned, this is NOT over yet, between him and Coulson. "I'M her father, NOT YOU!!!"
I suspect Cal is going to be the big bad for the remainder of teh season.
Also, I don't think this is the last we'll see of Whitehall. He's still alive during Agent Carter's run.
Seems improbable to me. From what I understand,
Agent Carter will be about the early years of SHIELD after the war. Reinhardt was already imprisoned by that point.
I do wonder if we might see the beginnings of Hydra's infiltration of SHIELD, though.
Maybe Bennet will cut her hair over the holiday at least.
God I hope not! Her hair is gorgeous! (Not a fan of the bangs, though. But, hey, it's her hair, not mine.)
ETA:
It bothers me that the one character to die was a black dude. But at least it wasn't the old trope of "Black Guy Dies to Save White People." I don't think Trip and Mack are as well-defined characters as some of the others, but I also do think
Agents of SHIELD deserves credit for having more than just one black dude in the cast, and for having a generally ethnically diverse cast.
and Mack seemingly lives...Oh and Skye goes through the most over the top slow mo scene ever in TV to look the same as she did 15 seconds earlier 
