ST Phase 2: MIND-SIFTER

[Maurice]

Welcome Mr. Lewis.

It's interesting to see your replies to doubleohfive and what you were thinking. I don't happen to agree with all of your points or arguments, but I appreciate the polite and friendly tone when so many people can't remain civil when even mildly critiqued.

That said, I had to raise a Spockian eyebrow and your of lauding of some people on this show as superior to the people who've worked on the professional Treks. Stacy better than Leonard Nimoy? Seriously?

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

I think this is definitely one of NV/P2's best, certainly of the ones I've seen. The new Kirk and Bones are both great, though I would only expect Bones to sound quite so Southern when he's drunk! (Maybe he was drunk in more scenes than we knew?) The school looked great as a period mental hospital. All the scenes on the Enterprise are wonderful, and the acting is top-notch throughout. I think McCoy would have reacted to the whole situation just the way he did on screen. Enjoyed the distortion effects used in Kirk's POV shots, and of course the James Cawley cameo was priceless.

What I missed from the story, though, is the more vulnerable, childlike side of Kirk that emerged when he was worse off mentally, and the more maternal relationship that occurred with Jan Hamlin because of it. I honestly didn't think making her a doctor, and the associated subplot about her wanting more respect, added anything interesting. Instead, it just seemed to take time away from her complex and changing relationship with Kirk, which was what had stuck with me all these years from reading the story. Sort of transforming from a mother-child thing to a romantic relationship à la Charlie Gordon/Alice Kinnian, which was so unlike Kirk's typical relationships and used to leave me wondering how he would feel about her after he recovered.

But, that said, if I had never read the story, I wouldn't have any significant criticism of the episode. Well done! Just one thing, though: How was Kirk able to say the name "James" without setting off a reaction?

 

[CaptainSerek]

I watched it yesterday. I enjoyed it as I expected to. I am going to watch the Docherman version later on in the week.

 

[ScottBo]

Nice job recreating the Guardian set. Its voice was underwhelming tho.

You are so right there.

 

[Tom]

5. When we talk about "poorly framed shots" I must defend the choices of world-class Cinematographer Jeff Barklage. We specifically and purposefully worked toward artistic composition found in modern artwork and the understood cinema rules around position instead of just framing actors in the horrific middle-of-screen position done in TOS. Much like my choice to do this episode in 4:3, my intent, due to the nature of the script, was to emphasize the performance of the actors at every step; to engage them and connect them more with the audience. Splitting the screen in the middle actually disconnects actors from THEMSELVES in a scene - and thus the viewer. So, we did purposeful avoidance of center-screen composition not just because it serves the story better, but because it just looks aweful. The "wasted space" is actually called negative space and, especially in the example you have of McCoy's salute, would have no ability to be framed had there been no such space - or the camera or focal length of the lens would be so removed from our characters as to lose the moment. And just as a correction, there is no Steadicam work in this film.

Jeff did a great job, loved the some of the angles and the shots, that was one of the things that stood out for me while viewing this episode.

7. I defend my friend Tobias Richter's work as superior to anything in the JJ verse or ANY verse. His work is superior and non-derivative.

I agree 100%!! His work speaks for itself, I just looked at his latest shots for Renegades earlier today, and those, like Axanar and Phase II, look incredible!

 

[USS Intrepid]

Mark Edward Lewis, my compliments on the classy response. And for your hard work on Mind Sifter.

Also, while there were a few bits of tinny dialogue, I found it was generally fine on my Apple TV.

 

[Indysolo]

1. When we say the "audio is terrible throughout," I believe what you mean is the dialogue is terrible throughout. I trust you were able to watch the 5.1 surround version which is completely different movie than the simple stereo-on-internet. I also trust you were able to watch and listen on a good system rather than computer speakers (Apple TV not being one of those 'good systems'). This said, I agree that the dialogue is something the sound production crew struggled with in the new studio. Many of the ADR lines had to be conformed to the set audio and some of the fidelity suffered. However, I don't believe the performances suffered and the intent and flow of the movie seems to okay. However, I agree, of the technical issues, we have struggled with dialogue.

Has anyone been able to stream the 5.1 track from YouTube? I have an Apple TV 3, Roku 3 and a Chromecast and all of them only received 2-channel audio. And yes, all of them are connected via HDMI to my receiver. Plenty of other services deliver 5.1, but I'm not aware of YouTube being one of them.

Of course, I'm such a purist, I prefer to watch the original series in mono.

Neil

 

[Maurice]

Some quibbles with the story...

Spoiler: Story logic

When questioned about "Gateway" Kirk would never have responded "It's a Starfleet secret!" He'd have said something like, "Never heard of it." You don't admit anything about something you want to keep secret, especially that it even exists.

Kirk is still cognizant of who he is and where he is just before jumping through the Guardian, so why the sudden amnesia when he goes through? That seems too convenient.

The Guardian of Forever would be something so secret that no one outside the crewmembers who actually encountered it and senior Starfleet should even know about it, so Spock causally announcing, "That would be the Guardian of Forever," in front of the whole bridge crew is ludicrous.

Relatedly, there's no effing way Starfleet would let the Klingons escape, especially considering how secret and sensitive the Guardian would be. Imagine if a Soviet aircraft were found circling over Area 51 back in the 80s. That sucker woulda been blown out of the sky without warning. Allowing them to escape with whatever information they've obtained would be to fail in your duties in a spectacular fashion.

I hate lines like "Would you have believed me?" from characters whose adventures have repeatedly exposed them to things far weirder than this. There're more Spockian reasons for not admitting it.

 

[RCAM]

I had the opportunity to watch the episode earlier and wanted to share my thoughts. This won't be a formal, well-structured review in the style of several other posters (I really enjoy reading those, by the way) -- just a few things that occur to me.

Overall, I thought this was the strongest Phase II entry in quite a long time. While I'm not sure whether Brian Gross' soft-spoken demeanor will mesh with the Kirk character long term, he represents a striking improvement in acting talent and nuance over his predecessor. The man knows the craft.

I'll put the next few thoughts in a spoiler tag, just in case...

Spoiler: Thoughts on "Mind-sifter"

Just like Gross, Jeffrey Bond is a major upgrade over his predecessor. I was skeptical in that first scene on the bridge. The accent seemed really "off" and inconsistent, and it felt like an over-dramatic line reading. One of the things I look for in a performance is whether there's anything happening behind the actor's eyes. Do they appear to be thinking and feeling as the character? In the bridge scene and in a couple other scenes, his head bobbed and tilted every which way, but there was nothing behind his eyes. On the whole, however, I was pretty impressed. He has a very strong presence.

Rebecca Wood was just wonderful in her role. Every line of dialogue felt authentic (not necessarily in terms of scripting, but rather her delivery) and her subtle facial cues were marvelous. I thought her relationship with Kirk could have been handled much better, though. It's clear from Rebecca's performance that despite the character's assertions to the contrary, she's fallen in love with Kirk. But we're never given any insight into why. Is it just Florence Nightingale Syndrome? It must be, because Kirk is a quivering, psychotic mess who can barely hold a lucid conversation with her. That part rang false to me. I felt like she fell in love with him because that's what guest actors are supposed to do when playing opposite a single, attractive lead character.

It felt odd to me that so little of the final scene at the hospital revolved around Kirk's and her interaction; Spock shouldn't have monopolized the the scene. It made sense with respect to realism (Kirk's in no condition to talk, etc.) but not with respect to TV storytelling. It was very unsatisfying. (Just my personal opinion as a longtime consumer of the medium.)

I thought the resolution of the Klingon conflict was anticlimactic. And I agree with a couple other reviewers who were flabbergasted that said Klingons were allowed by multiple Starfleet ships to escape so easily.

From a technical perspective, I thought the production values were pretty good overall. I must echo the comments about the sound, however. I'm hardly an audiophile, but the problems were quite apparent -- even to my untrained ears.

The pacing was significantly better than any Phase II offering not named "World Enough and Time." Kudos to the director and editor for that achievement. I remained engaged throughout.

As someone who always looks forward to Phase II episodes but has been underwhelmed by many of its offerings, I have to say: very nice job. There's some issues, as there are with any production (fan film or not), but I think the team should be proud of their work. As always, I'm definitely looking forward to Phase II's next outing. Thanks very much to Greg and Mark for their thoughtful, insightful, professional, and good-natured posts in the thread. It was great hearing your perspectives and getting some background.

 

[GSchnitzer]

"Kirk is still cognizant of who he is and where he is just before jumping through the Guardian, so why the sudden amnesia when he goes through? That seems too convenient.
Some quibbles with the story...."

Maurice: The episode was pretty explicit on what happened--but maybe it was glossed over just a little too much.

Kirk was thrown into the swirling lights of the mind sifter with some unknown effects on him--presumably in an effort to extract the location of "Gateway." We then cut back to Enterprise action. Eight minutes later, we find ourselves at the Guardian. (The mind sifter seems to have worked: the Klingons extracted the Guardian's location.) Additionally, Kor mentions that Kor can send Kirk to "amnesia hell:" Kor, during the mind sifter's earlier use, planted a post-hypnotic suggestion in Kirk. Kirk will have painful, hellish amnesia the moment Kirk's name and rank are uttered--which is exactly what Kor then does. Kirk loses his memories right then and there in front of the Guardian based on Kor's earlier post-hypnotic key words, and then the amnesic Kirk is dumped into the Guardian.

I don't know if all that is a goofy story point or a brilliant story point--or probably something in between. But it certainly was a pretty explicit story point, although I guess it needed to be even expliciter. Maybe I have an advantage, having read the source story. But I think it's pretty clear even to those unfamiliar with Shirley's original story.

 

[dswynne1]

I have to be a naysayer, and say that this outing didn't do it for me. It seems that someone used a fan fiction story to create a script from. Also, I identified at least three plot elements taken from other Star Trek shows, while noticing a slight discontinuity between this episode and "In Harm's Way" (unless, "Mind Sifter" takes place BEFORE "In Harm's Way"). Finally, I found Spock's character to be "off" in a way, until the final act, in which he was able do his thing brilliantly. And I have to agree with some of the people here, and say that Kirk was not Kirk. There have been TOS episodes that demonstrated his resolve, under duress, not to buckle under pressure. So, yeah, not feeling it with this episode.

However, in light of the fact that a) I am a big supporter of Phase 2, and, b) this episode was most likely made during the transition period, in which Crawley was shifting roles in the production, I will continue being a fan of Phase 2. No production, professional or fan-made, is without problems, and putting together an entirely new cast will take time to gel.

Looking forward to the next one.

 

[GSchnitzer]

I have to be a naysayer, and say that this outing didn't do it for me. It seems that someone used a fan fiction story to create a script from. Also, I identified at least three plot elements taken from other Star Trek shows, while noticing a slight discontinuity between this episode and "In Harm's Way" (unless, "Mind Sifter" takes place BEFORE "In Harm's Way"). Finally, I found Spock's character to be "off" in a way, until the final act, in which he was able do his thing brilliantly. And I have to agree with some of the people here, and say that Kirk was not Kirk. There have been TOS episodes that demonstrated his resolve, under duress, not to buckle under pressure. So, yeah, not feeling it with this episode.

However, in light of the fact that a) I am a big supporter of Phase 2, and, b) this episode was most likely made during the transition period, in which Crawley was shifting roles in the production, I will continue being a fan of Phase 2. No production, professional or fan-made, is without problems, and putting together an entirely new cast will take time to gel.

Looking forward to the next one.

Thank you, dswynne1. Yes, "Mind-Sifter" takes place before "In Harm's Way" and the establishment of Dr. McGregor's Project Timepiece research station. (Mister Spock made reference to "lets set up a research station!" at the end of "Mind-Sifter" as a harbinger of the "In Harm's Way" events, but maybe it was too subtle.)

It seems like we used a fan fiction story to make a script? I thought everyone knew that that was exactly what we did. So many Trek fans remember this fan fiction story from when it was published back in the early 1970s; I guess we figured it was more common knowledge than it evidently is.

Yes, I think that since "Mind-Sifter" was originally published, many of the story elements were explored in other Trek shows. Of course, when it was published, there had been no other Trek shows. So this would the seminal story, and those other stories bear similarities to this one--not the other way around.

Apologies that Mister Spock seemed "off." Actor Brandon Stacy might have been "off," or, alternatively, Spock might have been off. Kirk was gone and the crew hated him. If Spock's not himself, is it any wonder? If he seems more like himself towards the end of the episode when he figures out Kirk was actually alive, that might be your answer.

Yes, this was a bit of a transition for James Cawley (not "Crawley"). In truth, however, "The Holiest Thing" is (or will be) probably more representative of a transition episode, but this episode (shooting after "The Holiest Thing") seems to have gotten completed and released earlier.

Thanks for the questions and comments.

 

[HarryM]

Re: Spock's "self-meld" he did something similar in ATCSL, seems to be more of a focusing/mind-clearing device... http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x04hd/andthechildrenshallleadhd1064.jpg

 

[Fez]

I have to be a naysayer, and say that this outing didn't do it for me. It seems that someone used a fan fiction story to create a script from. Also, I identified at least three plot elements taken from other Star Trek shows, while noticing a slight discontinuity between this episode and "In Harm's Way" (unless, "Mind Sifter" takes place BEFORE "In Harm's Way"). Finally, I found Spock's character to be "off" in a way, until the final act, in which he was able do his thing brilliantly. And I have to agree with some of the people here, and say that Kirk was not Kirk. There have been TOS episodes that demonstrated his resolve, under duress, not to buckle under pressure. So, yeah, not feeling it with this episode.

However, in light of the fact that a) I am a big supporter of Phase 2, and, b) this episode was most likely made during the transition period, in which Crawley was shifting roles in the production, I will continue being a fan of Phase 2. No production, professional or fan-made, is without problems, and putting together an entirely new cast will take time to gel.

Looking forward to the next one.

Thank you, dswynne1. Yes, "Mind-Sifter" takes place before "In Harm's Way" and the establishment of Dr. McGregor's Project Timepiece research station. (Mister Spock made reference to "lets set up a research station!" at the end of "Mind-Sifter" as a harbinger of the "In Harm's Way" events, but maybe it was too subtle.)

It seems like we used a fan fiction story to make a script? I thought everyone knew that that was exactly what we did. So many Trek fans remember this fan fiction story from when it was published back in the early 1970s; I guess we figured it was more common knowledge than it evidently is.

Yes, I think that since "Mind-Sifter" was originally published, many of the story elements were explored in other Trek shows. Of course, when it was published, there had been no other Trek shows. So this would the seminal story, and those other stories bear similarities to this one--not the other way around.

Apologies that Mister Spock seemed "off." Actor Brandon Stacy might have been "off," or, alternatively, Spock might have been off. Kirk was gone and the crew hated him. If Spock's not himself, is it any wonder? If he seems more like himself towards the end of the episode when he figures out Kirk was actually alive, that might be your answer.

Yes, this was a bit of a transition for James Cawley (not "Crawley"). In truth, however, "The Holiest Thing" is (or will be) probably more representative of a transition episode, but this episode (shooting after "The Holiest Thing") seems to have gotten completed and released earlier.

Thanks for the questions and comments.

Greg I have to agree/disagree with you on this one. The original 'Mind-Sifter' was a transition period for James and I think that showed in his casting of Brian for 'Bread and Savagery' and so on. So if there is lull transition wise between James and Brian it will be when we release 'BaS'

dswynne1: Spock was off because he was hearing Jim in his mind, and it was plaguing him, in addition to the crew hating Spock for taking command and seemingly giving up on Jim. So if he was not "Spock" (the one we all know) he was dealing with the emotional stress of the whole situation, something I believe that Brandon Stacy displayed beautifully in his portrayal of Spock in this episode. Spock never wavers, he acts slightly atypical for him until we finally know as with McCoy (when he finds out) the pain and agony both Jim and Spock have been going through

 

[dswynne1]

GSchnitzer and Fez: Thank you for your kind response. I really appreciate it when producers take the time to respond to my comments. Also, I know that you guys will have a lot more stories to tell with the new cast. Good luck, and best wishes!

 

[Maurice]

"Kirk is still cognizant of who he is and where he is just before jumping through the Guardian, so why the sudden amnesia when he goes through? That seems too convenient.
Some quibbles with the story...."

Maurice: The episode was pretty explicit on what happened--but maybe it was glossed over just a little too much.

Kirk was thrown into the swirling lights of the mind sifter with some unknown effects on him--presumably in an effort to extract the location of "Gateway." We then cut back to Enterprise action. Eight minutes later, we find ourselves at the Guardian. (The mind sifter seems to have worked: the Klingons extracted the Guardian's location.) Additionally, Kor mentions that Kor can send Kirk to "amnesia hell:" Kor, during the mind sifter's earlier use, planted a post-hypnotic suggestion in Kirk. Kirk will have painful, hellish amnesia the moment Kirk's name and rank are uttered--which is exactly what Kor then does. Kirk loses his memories right then and there in front of the Guardian based on Kor's earlier post-hypnotic key words, and then the amnesic Kirk is dumped into the Guardian.

I don't know if all that is a goofy story point or a brilliant story point--or probably something in between. But it certainly was a pretty explicit story point, although I guess it needed to be even expliciter. Maybe I have an advantage, having read the source story. But I think it's pretty clear even to those unfamiliar with Shirley's original story.

I guess so. I think the whole speed-ramped bit with the Klingons wrestling with Kirk and "Amazing Grace" beating me over the head distracted me from making that connection. And, yes, I really hate "Amazing Grace" in Trek.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Maurice:

To be fair, we are actually getting lots of people saying to us. "So you mean uttering Kirk's name and rank causes not only exquisite pain, but amnesia as well. Huh-- I guess I missed that." So maybe it wasn't spelled out enough by us.

Or maybe Amazing Grace distracted you from making the connection.

"Kirk is still cognizant of who he is and where he is just before jumping through the Guardian, so why the sudden amnesia when he goes through? That seems too convenient.
Some quibbles with the story...."

Maurice: The episode was pretty explicit on what happened--but maybe it was glossed over just a little too much.

Kirk was thrown into the swirling lights of the mind sifter with some unknown effects on him--presumably in an effort to extract the location of "Gateway." We then cut back to Enterprise action. Eight minutes later, we find ourselves at the Guardian. (The mind sifter seems to have worked: the Klingons extracted the Guardian's location.) Additionally, Kor mentions that Kor can send Kirk to "amnesia hell:" Kor, during the mind sifter's earlier use, planted a post-hypnotic suggestion in Kirk. Kirk will have painful, hellish amnesia the moment Kirk's name and rank are uttered--which is exactly what Kor then does. Kirk loses his memories right then and there in front of the Guardian based on Kor's earlier post-hypnotic key words, and then the amnesic Kirk is dumped into the Guardian.

I don't know if all that is a goofy story point or a brilliant story point--or probably something in between. But it certainly was a pretty explicit story point, although I guess it needed to be even expliciter. Maybe I have an advantage, having read the source story. But I think it's pretty clear even to those unfamiliar with Shirley's original story.

I guess so. I think the whole speed-ramped bit with the Klingons wrestling with Kirk and "Amazing Grace" beating me over the head distracted me from making that connection. And, yes, I really hate "Amazing Grace" in Trek.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Thank you, Fez. I had completely forgotten that the not-yet-released "Bread and Savagery " was Brian Gross" first full episode with us and might be the most transitional.

In some ways, dswynne1 might be right, though: James actually shot some of "Mind-Sifter" as Kirk before we brought Brian on board--so maybe it really is the best example of being "transitional" for James.

I have to be a naysayer, and say that this outing didn't do it for me. It seems that someone used a fan fiction story to create a script from. Also, I identified at least three plot elements taken from other Star Trek shows, while noticing a slight discontinuity between this episode and "In Harm's Way" (unless, "Mind Sifter" takes place BEFORE "In Harm's Way"). Finally, I found Spock's character to be "off" in a way, until the final act, in which he was able do his thing brilliantly. And I have to agree with some of the people here, and say that Kirk was not Kirk. There have been TOS episodes that demonstrated his resolve, under duress, not to buckle under pressure. So, yeah, not feeling it with this episode.

However, in light of the fact that a) I am a big supporter of Phase 2, and, b) this episode was most likely made during the transition period, in which Crawley was shifting roles in the production, I will continue being a fan of Phase 2. No production, professional or fan-made, is without problems, and putting together an entirely new cast will take time to gel.

Looking forward to the next one.

Thank you, dswynne1. Yes, "Mind-Sifter" takes place before "In Harm's Way" and the establishment of Dr. McGregor's Project Timepiece research station. (Mister Spock made reference to "lets set up a research station!" at the end of "Mind-Sifter" as a harbinger of the "In Harm's Way" events, but maybe it was too subtle.)

It seems like we used a fan fiction story to make a script? I thought everyone knew that that was exactly what we did. So many Trek fans remember this fan fiction story from when it was published back in the early 1970s; I guess we figured it was more common knowledge than it evidently is.

Yes, I think that since "Mind-Sifter" was originally published, many of the story elements were explored in other Trek shows. Of course, when it was published, there had been no other Trek shows. So this would the seminal story, and those other stories bear similarities to this one--not the other way around.

Apologies that Mister Spock seemed "off." Actor Brandon Stacy might have been "off," or, alternatively, Spock might have been off. Kirk was gone and the crew hated him. If Spock's not himself, is it any wonder? If he seems more like himself towards the end of the episode when he figures out Kirk was actually alive, that might be your answer.

Yes, this was a bit of a transition for James Cawley (not "Crawley"). In truth, however, "The Holiest Thing" is (or will be) probably more representative of a transition episode, but this episode (shooting after "The Holiest Thing") seems to have gotten completed and released earlier.

Thanks for the questions and comments.

Greg I have to agree/disagree with you on this one. The original 'Mind-Sifter' was a transition period for James and I think that showed in his casting of Brian for 'Bread and Savagery' and so on. So if there is lull transition wise between James and Brian it will be when we release 'BaS'

dswynne1: Spock was off because he was hearing Jim in his mind, and it was plaguing him, in addition to the crew hating Spock for taking command and seemingly giving up on Jim. So if he was not "Spock" (the one we all know) he was dealing with the emotional stress of the whole situation, something I believe that Brandon Stacy displayed beautifully in his portrayal of Spock in this episode. Spock never wavers, he acts slightly atypical for him until we finally know as with McCoy (when he finds out) the pain and agony both Jim and Spock have been going through

 

[ElimGarak.93-99]

I enjoyed watching the episode.

I was very impressed by Brian Gross.
I can imagine that some scenes in the mental hospital weren't easy to do. Okay he's an actor, but still.

Jeff Bond's accent, reminded me of Virgil from Thunderbirds. ('60)

There is one thing that puzzles me. In the scene with the Guardian, Kirk shirt is visibly torn, but later when Hamlin gives Kirk his shirt back, it's fine. Did they (the people from '58) repair it?

 

[NewHorizon]

There is one thing that puzzles me. In the scene with the Guardian, Kirk shirt is visibly torn, but later when Hamlin gives Kirk his shirt back, it's fine. Did they (the people from '58) repair it?

I recall the zipper on the neck being undone.