Uniforms

[PCz911]

, I have trouble imagining the middle-aged cast in their old style uniforms. The maroon and black was great for hiding those middle-aged waist lines, or making them seem more...manageable?

This is most likely the true reason for the change.

TMP uniforms were the most attractive, especially with all the ideas generated in this very forum.

All the pins and the jackets made TWOK look like a marching band crossed with a Disney pin collector.

However, being middle aged with a receding hairline and expanding waistline , I totally get why they made the change

 

[Lance]

All the pins and the jackets made TWOK look like a marching band crossed with a Disney pin collector.

 

[eyeresist]

I'm guessing those who prefer TMP uniforms came of age in the 70s? Bones's broad collars and hairy chest are pretty groovy - all he needs is a gold medallion.

The TWOK uniforms look impractically bulky to me. Like walking around in a red velvet sofa.

I best like the later uniform of black/dark grey with coloured shoulders. Subtle but stylish. I also liked the "overall"-type uniforms in the context of ENT.

ST09 made the old uniform designs seem sophisticated and modern, but there's something fantastical about them, and I don't think they'd be practical. The material looks too light, and like it would easily snag.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

ST09 made the old uniform designs seem sophisticated and modern, but there's something fantastical about them, and I don't think they'd be practical. The material looks too light, and like it would easily snag.

And rip easily.

 

[datalal624]

This would be how I'd prefer the TMP uniforms to look. It doesn't take away from the design but it keeps the TOS color scheme, but with desaturation to keep with the toned down colors. And of course blackening the pants and collar to keep some TOS uniform elements.

These would have been great. Clearly updated to give it the TMP look and at the same time keeping the TOS elements that are so recognizable.

Wow, I really like this treatment. I would have liked the TMP uniforms a LOT better if they'd been handled this way.

That said, I LOVE the "monster maroon" uniforms. They just looks like serious, practical uniforms, but also kind of comfortable to wear. The bomber jackets that went with them were really cool, too. The old TOS uniforms were great for color TV, and very visually appealing, but they (like the TNG uniforms) weren't terribly practical for holding equipment, nor did they do a damn thing to protect a crew member from the elements.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I love the TOS/Abramsverse uniforms.

The TMP uniforms look as if they might have some diversity to the styles, but we only got to seem in one film.

I dislike the uniforms from TWOK - TUC. Too bulky, and - as brought out - look like dress uniforms. And, they come off a bit boring.

TNG movie uniforms? They're okay....I guess.

 

[Pauln6]

Would or could? You mean could. And, really, only if it was not the same system used in TMP, because that would make the tunic colors redundant, I think, as I stated in my last post (I guess, unless we're supposed to assume that Uhura really is still in operations, and not back in command as in the beginning of season one, but that would be the only exception I can see).

Sulu and Ilia are both operations too. Command isn't just reserved for captain and first officer though. There's a yeoman or junior officer floating around (possibly at Starfleet Command or on the station) with a white circle too.

We have technicians with grey circles and green circles on the Rec Deck so I would have no issue with this kind of delineation within departments. In fact if this was official it would mean the inconsistencies make a bit more sense.

I won't speak to the veracity of the article, but Memory Alpha has helm and navigation in the command division in the mid-2270s here, just as it was in the series.

Yeah, Operations is in the command division still as far as I'm aware. The point is that Uhura has a yellow badge so she is also in the command division. She's been there before and it's more sensible (since she is a command officer and not an engineer) than the odd, coloured collars from TWoK era where helm is lumped with engineering while navigation and communications are part of the science division.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sulu and Ilia are both operations too. Command isn't just reserved for captain and first officer though. There's a yeoman or junior officer floating around (possibly at Starfleet Command or on the station) with a white circle too.

We have technicians with grey circles and green circles on the Rec Deck so I would have no issue with this kind of delineation within departments. In fact if this was official it would mean the inconsistencies make a bit more sense.

I won't speak to the veracity of the article, but Memory Alpha has helm and navigation in the command division in the mid-2270s here, just as it was in the series.

Yeah, Operations is in the command division still as far as I'm aware. The point is that Uhura has a yellow badge so she is also in the command division. She's been there before and it's more sensible (since she is a command officer and not an engineer) than the odd, coloured collars from TWoK era where helm is lumped with engineering while navigation and communications are part of the science division.

Point of possible confusion here with respect to terminimology: the Memory Alpha article I cited in this post refers to the whole red shirt division in TOS as operations.

Oh, I hated the orange anyway. It would have looked better blue, but I've heard on the board that they changed the insignia background for Spock to orange because blue would have conflicted with blue screen for matte work.

In TMoSTTMP it says that Robert Wise thought that Spock should have a badge that stood out more on the gray-blue uniform.

Ah, thanks. Sounds like that would contradict the idea that it was for blue screen work. I've always been suspicious of the blue screen explanation, because there aren't too many times when it would have been needed, but Spock does move around in front of the window looking out into space in the lounge scene right before they arrive at V'ger. The claim came from Therin of Andor, who usually knows what he's talking about, such as in this post.

 

[T'Girl]

Sulu and Ilia are both operations too (in fact I like to think that Sulu was chief operations officer who was just doing a shift at the helm ...

My thought is that Sulu was Captain Decker's first officer, and he got "bumped down" during the V'Ger crisis.

Would or could?

Yes.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So, what Spock might have looked like with a blue color code instead of orange:

 

[J.T.B.]

No, it still correlates. Like I said before, the lieutenant, commander, & captain rank pins have a connection to what came before in TOS (even if loosely). Even Kirk's four-leaf admiral pin has a correlation to the four stripes he wore initially in TMP. Things don't have to be 100% the same to see a connection or an influence between them.

Well, I don't agree. The TOS officer insignia from ensign to captain are comprised of two elements (stripe and "dashed" stripe) arranged in a sequential series that starts at zero and goes up by "half steps" to 2.5. The TWOK insignia simply don't fit into a comparable system, so I'll stand by my position that the rank insignia were re-invented.

Ah, thanks. Sounds like that would contradict the idea that it was for blue screen work. I've always been suspicious of the blue screen explanation, because there aren't too many times when it would have been needed, but Spock does move around in front of the window looking out into space in the lounge scene right before they arrive at V'ger. The claim came from Therin of Andor, who usually knows what he's talking about, such as in this post.

OK, I looked at the book and it does mention the blue screen in the next sentence, but the way it's written makes it seem like it's not the main reason. The passage:

Since Mr. Spock is one of the most important principals in the film, prominent in nearly every scene, director Robert Wise felt that the former blue color of science wouldn't be a good choice, since it would not show up well on the grayish-blue uniform usually worn by the science officer -- hence the orange patch for the science division. (Blue is also a difficult color to work with since it can create problems when working with the blue screens commonly used in optical effects work.)​

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Thanks again, J.T.B.. I don't yet have a behind-the-scenes book on TMP production in my library, though that should change in a month or so.

 

[Pauln6]

Point of possible confusion here with respect to terminimology: the Memory Alpha article I cited in this post refers to the whole red shirt division in TOS as operations.

Ah yes. Who needs consistent terminology anyway? I always thought redshirts were split into Engineering and Services, yellow was Command and Operations, and blue was Science and Medical (a division of Life Sciences).

I think TMP had the most sensible divisions as far as the badges go even if the colour scheme was dodgy.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ I suspect that "operations" is a TNG-ism retconned to the other eras. TMoST p. 205 calls it "Engineering and Ships Services."

I think TMP had the most sensible divisions as far as the badges go even if the colour scheme was dodgy.

Yes.

 

[C.E. Evans]

No, it still correlates. Like I said before, the lieutenant, commander, & captain rank pins have a connection to what came before in TOS (even if loosely). Even Kirk's four-leaf admiral pin has a correlation to the four stripes he wore initially in TMP. Things don't have to be 100% the same to see a connection or an influence between them.

Well, I don't agree. The TOS officer insignia from ensign to captain are comprised of two elements (stripe and "dashed" stripe) arranged in a sequential series that starts at zero and goes up by "half steps" to 2.5. The TWOK insignia simply don't fit into a comparable system, so I'll stand by my position that the rank insignia were re-invented.

Nah, there's still a connection there. The number of rungs in the lieutenant, commander, and captain rank pins weren't just chosen at random.

 

[drt]

I always had more of an issue with the dot and bar sleeve pins.

Originally, I though they depicted the wearers "job function", but Kirk's (and I believe Chekov's) remained the same from TWOK through TUC, when he had a couple of different roles. That they remained the same for Kirk and everyone else also means that can be "length of service" pins, as some fandom publications attest, since obviously years pass between those movies. I suppose that leaves us with commendations, but we then have to assume that none of the crew were awarded any after TWOK. Or we just have to ignore that they remained static between movies and pretend they changed to accurately reflect whatever it is they're supposed to represent...

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always had more of an issue with the dot and bar sleeve pins.

Originally, I though they depicted the wearers "job function", but Kirk's (and I believe Chekov's) remained the same from TWOK through TUC, when he had a couple of different roles. That they remained the same for Kirk and everyone else also means that can be "length of service" pins, as some fandom publications attest, since obviously years pass between those movies. I suppose that leaves us with commendations, but we then have to assume that none of the crew were awarded any after TWOK. Or we just have to ignore that they remained static between movies and pretend they changed to accurately reflect whatever it is they're supposed to represent...

I've always just regarded the pins on the lower left sleeve bar as individual service pins and that they sometimes made as much sense as "fruit salad" with some pins meaning different things.

 

[drt]

It is sort of funny how well they maintained continuity on those pins over the course of ten years worth of production. It's the one thing that would have made some sense if they screwed up, as then some function could be inferred...

Personally, I kind of like the job function/rating explanation, since that was my first assumption.

 

[Commishsleer]

The security guards in TMP/TSFS have the worst movie uniforms.

 

[Hypaspist]

The security guards in TMP/TSFS have the worst movie uniforms.

haha that's true, but at least they gave them something to wear.

I like the JJ Abrams/TOS uniforms the best. I don't really count them as being different, except the new ones simply look like they're made out of a better material.

The way I look at it, the duty uniform should be comfortable and easily worn underneath a hazard suit, armor, space suit, or whatever.