DS9 on blu ray?

[Chareth]

The statement: "Buy the Blus and you MAYBE get DS9 in HD" is not a fair deal.

I can understand that, but I don't think this should be viewed as an ultimatum from CBS or some kind of blackmail. From what Bill says - and judging by the sheer effort that's gone into these discs when other studios are bailing on extras - CBS cares about putting these shows on Blu-ray. What they need is evidence that further investment in Trek on Blu is worthwhile, and that's what the sales figures are.

You're still free to buy as much or as little as you want as a consumer, but Bill raises a good point that some fans don't buy the sets now that the shows have been remastered in HD. They might wait for a cheap complete series bundle a few years down the line, or for the HD versions to hit streaming services, not cognizant that purchasing the Blus sooner sends a signal to CBS. Enough signals = more Trek shows on Blu.

He's right to issue a gentle poke that if you love Trek in HD and want to see more of it, buying some sooner rather than later (or not at all) will help. Even if you buy one set on sale. If you already have them, buy some as gifts. Those guys within CBS who love Trek still need the evidence to give to the beancounters that this is an investment worth making. In that regard, they're our allies, not our unfeeling benefactors.

The other key takeaway from Bill's piece is that social media has an impact, even if petitions don't. That surprised me.

What if everyone reading this thread who has even one Trek TV Blu-ray set took a photo of what they have and put it on their Facebook and/or Twitter with the hashtag Bill suggested (#ds9onblurayplease)? What if they got every Trek fan they know to do the same? If word spreads widely enough, who knows what'll happen?

Sure, we've already bought them and sent a signal that way, but let's turn our boring statistics into a vibrant image with a passionate comment attached.

What do we have to lose?

 

[benjaminh]

The statement: "Buy the Blus and you MAYBE get DS9 in HD" is not a fair deal.

As Severus Snape once said:

"In case you haven't noticed: life *isn't* fair!"

 

[Salinga]

What if everyone reading this thread who has even one Trek TV Blu-ray set took a photo of what they have and put it on their Facebook and/or Twitter with the hashtag Bill suggested (#ds9onblurayplease)? What if they got every Trek fan they know to do the same? If word spreads widely enough, who knows what'll happen?

And? CBS has the sale figures for their Blurays already, sending photos of it is pretty pointless, since it wont change the numbers CBS already know. The info "I bought the Blurays!" is already known by CBS, since they sold them in the first place. The photos tell CBS only, where their sold product now is (on shelves in private homes , surprise, surprise!).

They either use something like Kickstarter to gather enough money for the project, or just take the risk. Or let it be.

 

[Chareth]

Bill Hunt is steeped in the industry and is largely a realist. If he, with all his provisos about the hurdles facing DS9 in HD, still thinks social media might have an impact on the people who already have those sales figures, I'm inclined to spend 2 minutes taking a photo and tweeting it.

A social media effort like this isn't just about proving purchases. It's about putting a different face on consumer interest than bland statistics. It may get the key parties energised to push for something they already want.

The BBC show Ripper Street earned a third season after cancellation and a social media campaign was credited as an influential factor. Den of Geek dug into whether it truly did have an impact or whether those public statements were just to make fans feel good:

We asked Ripper Street Executive Producer Will Gould what measurable impact the fan campaign had on the series three decision. “The fact is that if we hadn’t had such an amazing response - it surprised us all, it was so terrific - I don’t think we would have got through the last two months trying to do this deal. I don’t think there would have been the appetite to do it, because what we were trying to do was so complicated.”

For Gould, the campaign provided the creative team with vital encouragement during the struggle to bring the deal about. “It was the moral support. It was just a genuine feeling that this audience - a very vocal audience - wants a third series. I think it was a really important part of why we all sat there through some long, dark nights trying to work out a way of bringing a third series out.”

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/ripper-...-and-the-value-of-fan-campaigns#ixzz3Cy7CABEM

CBS have that enthusiasm, and they face similar difficulties trying to make DS9 HD happen. Social media turns potential DS9 consumers from abstract Trek fans who might buy a Blu-ray into individuals who care about products that CBS works hard on. It's a different message to a sales statistic.

 

[Chareth]

On their Facebook page, the Digital Bits have said the following about the setbacks in bringing the CGI effects to HD resolution:

"I can't offer specific details, but that problem has been cracked. It's doable."

It's not clear what aspect of the original post 'that problem' refers to, but 'doable' certainly seems to imply that CBS now know that they could feasibly restore the CGI in HD. That's quite significant.

 

[benjaminh]

On their Facebook page, the Digital Bits have said the following about the setbacks in bringing the CGI effects to HD resolution:

"I can't offer specific details, but that problem has been cracked. It's doable."

It's not clear what aspect of the original post 'that problem' refers to, but 'doable' certainly seems to imply that CBS now know that they could feasibly restore the CGI in HD. That's quite significant.

Well that seems quite significant, as that was perhaps the biggest hurdle for this.

My guess is: extensive reuse of the old files, which were "overbuilt" anyway?

 

[Chareth]

My guess is: extensive reuse of the old files, which were "overbuilt" anyway?

Given what FrontierTrek said on page 63 that they could be reused in a lot of instances, that would certainly be the driving force. But it doesn't cover everything, so I'm curious what 'cracked it' could mean - perhaps that enough effects can be rebuilt from existing files that the cost of creating others from scratch isn't insurmountable.

That said, solving the technical problem doesn't mean it's become super affordable, which tracks with what FT said about a cost 2-3 times that of TNG.

On a related note, there's been concern that if DS9 isn't tackled straight away, CBS will lose a lot of the expertise that's accumulated through TNG. But Bill Hunt's article reminds me that the TOS team also worked on TNG several years later, in part if not down to the last person. It makes sense that CBS Digital would have a permanent staff, meaning a lot of that expertise will still be there in a couple of years if CBS decide to do DS9 then.

So I'm not clear why there's been concern that the dream team may be lost, rather than just the extra workers CBS hired to get the project over the line. Maybe FrontierTrek can clarify that. I certainly hope this fantastic team has a steady paycheck from a company that clearly cares about their quality work.

 

[FrontierTrek]

On their Facebook page, the Digital Bits have said the following about the setbacks in bringing the CGI effects to HD resolution:

"I can't offer specific details, but that problem has been cracked. It's doable."

It's not clear what aspect of the original post 'that problem' refers to, but 'doable' certainly seems to imply that CBS now know that they could feasibly restore the CGI in HD. That's quite significant.

This simply refers to the issue of scene files which I covered in my article last year.

Like Bill, I'm not at liberty to go into much detail here. Needless to say, CBS were made aware of the scene files, investigated them, and discovered that all was not - as they feared - lost.

Given what FrontierTrek said on page 63 that they could be reused in a lot of instances, that would certainly be the driving force. But it doesn't cover everything, so I'm curious what 'cracked it' could mean - perhaps that enough effects can be rebuilt from existing files that the cost of creating others from scratch isn't insurmountable.

Yeah, I wouldn't have used the words "cracked it". While the initial fear of having to rebuild everything was discovered to be unfounded, they're still light years away from having anywhere near a complete archive of files necessary for a series reconstruction.

On a related note, there's been concern that if DS9 isn't tackled straight away, CBS will lose a lot of the expertise that's accumulated through TNG. But Bill Hunt's article reminds me that the TOS team also worked on TNG several years later, in part if not down to the last person. It makes sense that CBS Digital would have a permanent staff, meaning a lot of that expertise will still be there in a couple of years if CBS decide to do DS9 then.

So I'm not clear why there's been concern that the dream team may be lost, rather than just the extra workers CBS hired to get the project over the line. Maybe FrontierTrek can clarify that. I certainly hope this fantastic team has a steady paycheck from a company that clearly cares about their quality work.

CBS-D do indeed have a core staff. However many of the guys who worked on TNG (primarily the visual effects team) were recruited purely for this project. Again, I'm not at liberty to discuss things in detail here. The situation with the team is complex, but there are certainly no guarantees about job security for these guys at the moment.

 

[SPCTRE]

CBS-D do indeed have a core staff. However many of the guys who worked on TNG (primarily the visual effects team) were recruited purely for this project. Again, I'm not at liberty to discuss things in detail here. The situation with the team is complex, but there are certainly no guarantees about job security for these guys at the moment.

Job security on these jobs seems to be about as good as in the video games industry.

 

[DrOBoogie1]

I'm encouraged by The Bits' article, in that CBS wants to do DS9. I'm discouraged, however, that they don't appear to be moving on anything in advance of the 2016 franchise anniversary.

I appreciate all the information that TrekCore and The Bits can offer. What is CBS' threshold? Will they monitor Trek blu-ray sales for a year and then decide? Less than that? Since blu-ray sales aren't public, we have only their word on whether a threshold was met.

 

[Chareth]

Like Bill, I'm not at liberty to go into much detail here. Needless to say, CBS were made aware of the scene files, investigated them, and discovered that all was not - as they feared - lost.

Yeah, I wouldn't have used the words "cracked it". While the initial fear of having to rebuild everything was discovered to be unfounded, they're still light years away from having anywhere near a complete archive of files necessary for a series reconstruction.

That makes sense. Gathering everything they need from those disparate sources would be a miracle. Great news that they've found as much as they have. Hopefully they've been able to acquire and archive them for potential future use.

CBS-D do indeed have a core staff. However many of the guys who worked on TNG (primarily the visual effects team) were recruited purely for this project. Again, I'm not at liberty to discuss things in detail here. The situation with the team is complex, but there are certainly no guarantees about job security for these guys at the moment.

All the best to those guys then. They're extremely talented so I hope they land on their feet, either with another CBS-D project or elsewhere. If they happen to read threads like these: thanks so much again for your amazing work.

If you'll indulge some pie-in-the-sky thinking: if CBS hasn't yet decided whether to let these guys go and are still deliberating on projects they could use the effects team on, is there still time that a hypothetical DS9 decision in the next X number of weeks could keep them around? That is, could the social media campaign Bill Hunt suggested make a difference for the team's employment at CBS-D if it convinced CBS to take a punt on DS9 sooner rather than later?

I'm definitely aware of how fanciful that probably is, and am fully mindful of the sobering points you've been relaying, FrontierTrek. The ship has no doubt sailed in the immediate term. But you never know, I guess, and we might as well discuss something.

It would be pretty great to help these guys out as well as get the remaster we want so badly.

 

[drmick]

There HAS to be a celebrity out there now, who has a sizeable twitter footprint, who LOVES DS9.

All it takes is one tweet, followed by several (thousand) retweets. And maybe an ice bucket challenge.

 

[Squiggy]

I'm encouraged by The Bits' article, in that CBS wants to do DS9.

I'm sure they also want to do a new series...provided it makes money.

 

[asl]

I apologize in advance for the ignorance, but how does FrontierTrek get the 'inside' information?

 

[Dream]

CBS just announced that they are rereleasing TOS remastered on Bluray/dvd just to mock the DS9 fans.

 

[jimbotron]

How much did TNG-HD cost, I wonder. I'd be more than willing to throw money at a Kickstarter if it meant alleviating some of the huge cost for CBS. Hell, there have been some pretty stupid things that made a ton of money on Kickstarter. This would be nothing.

 

[Chareth]

How much did TNG-HD cost, I wonder. I'd be more than willing to throw money at a Kickstarter if it meant alleviating some of the huge cost for CBS. Hell, there have been some pretty stupid things that made a ton of money on Kickstarter. This would be nothing.

The reported figure is $9 million for all seven seasons. Trekcore estimates DS9 would cost 2-3 times that. To boot, it would quite possibly sell less given DS9's apparent lesser popularity.

Since the highest funded Kickstarter ever is, I believe, $10 million for the Pebble watch, it's questionable whether Kickstarter could raise enough to make the difference for CBS.

It's also doubtful that a major corporation like CBS would use Kickstarter for an established property like Star Trek. Warner took a lot of convincing to let Veronica Mars be funded that way, and that was a dead property, which Star Trek certainly isn't. While crowdfunding may be embraced by studios more in the future, it's far from certain. I suspect that for their key properties, studios might see it as an unnecessary admission of weakness, not to mention a legal and logistical minefield.

 

[Harvey]

And? CBS has the sale figures for their Blurays already, sending photos of it is pretty pointless, since it wont change the numbers CBS already know.

It won't change the numbers that have already sold, but it will be a very effective form of free marketing, which you can't buy on social media these days.

 

[SPCTRE]

CBS just announced that they are rereleasing TOS remastered on Bluray/dvd just to mock the DS9 fans.

 

[FrontierTrek]

That makes sense. Gathering everything they need from those disparate sources would be a miracle. Great news that they've found as much as they have. Hopefully they've been able to acquire and archive them for potential future use.

Well, not really "found as much as they have". There hasn't been any mass evaluation of what's there and what's not. The would only happen if a project is green-lit.

All the best to those guys then. They're extremely talented so I hope they land on their feet, either with another CBS-D project or elsewhere. If they happen to read threads like these: thanks so much again for your amazing work.

If you'll indulge some pie-in-the-sky thinking: if CBS hasn't yet decided whether to let these guys go and are still deliberating on projects they could use the effects team on, is there still time that a hypothetical DS9 decision in the next X number of weeks could keep them around? That is, could the social media campaign Bill Hunt suggested make a difference for the team's employment at CBS-D if it convinced CBS to take a punt on DS9 sooner rather than later?

I'm definitely aware of how fanciful that probably is, and am fully mindful of the sobering points you've been relaying, FrontierTrek. The ship has no doubt sailed in the immediate term. But you never know, I guess, and we might as well discuss something.

Not sure if they read the threads here, but I know they read the comments over at TrekCore.

Regarding your pie-in-the-sky. Sure, that's possible. You should think of CBS-D as an external company for all intents and purposes. While they're headquartered inside CBS TV City, they work as a private enterprise (forgive the pun). Naturally they'd like nothing more than to keep the staff on for a project like DS9. Right now though, their projects are nowhere near as complicated as TNG.

Regarding the social media campaign. No disrespect to Bill at all, but this is a bit of wishful thinking. CBS KNOW we want DS9 - and what's more, THEY want it too. A lot of the execs there are so passionate about Star Trek, it's crazy. This is now purely a logistical and financial issue - and the folks that make those kinds of decisions don't care if a few hundred fans have used a certain hashtag on Facebook.

I apologize in advance for the ignorance, but how does FrontierTrek get the 'inside' information?

No apologies necessary. I've been covering the TNG remastered project over at TrekCore since 2012 with news and behind-the-scenes info including interviews with the guys responsible for it. CBS Home Entertainment & Digital are pretty amazing outfits once you look past the corporate preconceptions. So many of the people who work there are beyond passionate about Star Trek, it's been a wonderful experience getting to know them all.