You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

[SeerSGB]

Why would Dougherty be "up front" with Picard?

Picard was a subordinate.

And how many people in the Federation? Plus billion of people in the Federation who could have had an improvement in their quality of life.

Hope they've classified the location of the planet. Can you imagine war weary populations finding out there is a place that could cure themselves and their loved ones? You think the Romulans or the Klingons give a shit about the Baku?

except well, the Son'a, who are still out there, and DOMINION ALLIES as a result of Picard's actions here, apparently know the location and... they knew it before, too, obviously to come to Dougherty with the plan.


Again, the movie just makes no sense. Why don't the Son'a just broadcast to other Alpha Quadrant powers the location and properties of the planet?

Is Starfleet now going to defend the Baku against any incoming threat for the foreseeable future? Is the planet now a Federation protectorate, despite the Federation getting NOTHING out of that arrangement?

This planet should be a interstellar nightmare for the Federation. Every major power, and the Federation's own citizens, hauling ass into the sector.

Think the Klingons were pissed over Genesis? Imagine the Romulans or the post-war Cardassians when they find out about this planet.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You think the Romulans or the Klingons give a shit about the Baku?

Assuming the Klingons and Romulans actually give a shit about immortality.

Think the Klingons were pissed over Genesis?

The Klingons wanted Genesis for use as a weapon of mass destruction, they didn't seem to give a crap about other uses for it.

This isn't really a similar situation.

 

[BillJ]

The Klingons wanted Genesis for use as a weapon of mass destruction, they didn't seem to give a crap about other uses for it.

This isn't really a similar situation.

Wouldn't warriors staying young and healthy for a much longer period of time be a good thing for an Empire dedicated to battle and conquest?

 

[AgentCoop]

Why wouldn't the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and literally every other power in the quadrant care about immortality for their people? Or even just greatly increased lifespans? Of course they would. About the only ones who wouldn't care are the Q.

The really fun part is that, unlike the Federation, the Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians would not be inclined to share. It wouldn't be enough for those guys to get the secret of immortality, they'd want to make sure no one else got it. It would take about five minutes for a quadrant-spanning war to break out over control of the planet.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The Klingons wanted Genesis for use as a weapon of mass destruction, they didn't seem to give a crap about other uses for it.

This isn't really a similar situation.

Wouldn't warriors staying young and healthy for a much longer period of time be a good thing for an Empire dedicated to battle and conquest?

The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science, That empire?

 

[T'Girl]

The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science

They might carry around knives and bat-thingies, but the Empire was created as a result of science and technology.

The Klingons wanted Genesis for use as a weapon of mass destruction, they didn't seem to give a crap about other uses for it.

That not true, three Klingons were discussing possible uses of the Genesis Device, one saw the weapons potential of the device (as did David Marcus), another Klingon saw the planet creating abilities, the third Klingon didn't venture an opinion.

 

[starburst]

Well the duckblind could be limiting: After all, how much or how big of a base could you hide right under the natives nose without something happening? Who Watches The Watchers for example.

So perhaps on a typical mission the holoship serves as larger lab and living space and gives them more flexibility. Hiding it in the water makes some form of sense: Keeps it off the trails, reduces the chance a stray hunter or someone out gathering food might stumble on it. The stupid move is hiding it in the village water supply.

As for cloaking tech: Yeah, that is one that didn't get explained. Especially when you toss in those nitfy cloaking suits the team has. You could argue that it wasn't a military type of cloak and was a variant of the duck blind holographic camo.

I see where you are coming from, but if hiding a cloaked holoship for research purposes was a standard procedure for a Duck Blind mission neither Data or Picard should have been surprised when they found it. If that was the case it would have been logged as attached to the mission along with the Scoutship and any other kit they had with them.

The suits further compound the problem, if they are so useful for observing races like this up close then why were they never used during the Dominion War for scouting missions!

If that was what he had done, no it isn't. He should have gathered up Data, ran out of the patch, made his report, and then flown back to stall things.

What he did do was force Ruafo's hand, piss him off, and speed and escalate the matter and then decided to "slow things down".

If I was doing things in a "better" order:

* Picard "saves" Data. Leaves the patch.
* Makes his report, gets some BS about it being under review or the Federation is aware of the matter and will update him.
* Picard takes the yacht back to the planet, sneaks past he S'ona.
* Riker stays on station to wait for an answer.
* Incredible journey to nowhere.
* Riker gets orders to have the S'ona and Dougherty halt the operation till the Council can review the new information.
* Dougherty obeys orders, gets killed, Big space battle as Riker tries to stop the S'ona.
* Pretty as is from there.

Actually...cut the S'ona out all together.

Have the Enterprise crew being the ones doing the observation. Starfleet gets the news of the miracle rings, decision made to harvest the planet. Warp in Dougherty with his flagship and a couple of more smaller ships); same ground "battle" but Federation on Federation, Space battle Federation on Federation.

I would have enjoyed seeing that film, make the Enterprise insurrection far less black and white.

Dougherty obviously thought he was doing the right thing for the Federation so it could have been played as a good man doing the wrong thing for reasons you can at least sympathise with without the S'ona clouding the water with their revenge.

Just like Into Darkness which could have been about (and was said to be about) a story of an Officer doing some very bad things but with reasons you could relate to... both ended up being tales of revenge by a madman (although I think ITD is more compelling a revenge tale).

The problem is if the planet doesn't belong to the Federation, then Son'a could just invoked the Prime Directive and keep the Federation out of this conflict and the Ba'ku would have been screwed.

Which as Picard stated in his initial report they had Warp technology so the Prime Directive didn't apply to them which Dougherty also used to explain away why they could be moved, they moved their they didnt evolve on the planet.

In Dougherty's mind he was restoring the natural evolution of 600 people to save countless others.

 

[BillJ]

The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science, That empire?

They wouldn't have needed the science as the S'ona seemed to have that end of the equation worked out. Plus, I never bought the notion that the Empire completely rejects medical advances that help make them stronger. The Klingons were fooling around with genetic engineering in the 22nd century. They obviously have doctors as Gorkon's personal physician was killed when Kronos One was attacked.

 

[BillJ]

The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science, That empire?

Thinking about it, this is another reason I hate the bad-hair, biker Klingons Modern Trek and Ron Moore foisted upon us. They are a direct contradiction of the TOS Klingons. The one's who were able to develop planets ("The Trouble with Tribbles"), develop devices that can strip the mind of its information ("Errand of Mercy"), obviously are able to build colonies on non-Class M worlds ("Friday's Child"), able to develop new weapons and create a Tribble predator ("More Tribbles, More Troubles"). Plus were able to build and maintain a fleet that was on par with the Federation.

Modern Trek did Gene Coon's creation a huge disservice with how they depicted them.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

And oh, by the way ... some of the hate displayed, here, for INSURRECTION has taken me by surprise!

Not hate. I just don't think it was a very good movie. I rank it 12th out of the twelve Star Trek movies.

The moral dilemma is forced, the Ba'ku immensely unlikable and Picard's actions are driven mainly by wanting a piece of ass. The crew was never in any real danger and the lack of internal dissent over Picard's actions robbed the film of any real drama.

I liked the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine, the face stretching was cool and the cinematography during the planet scenes was awesome.

Insurrection was a lesson in how not to make a movie. With a release date chosen and locked-in before they had even hired a writer and the stars (Stewart & Spiner) having too much say.

And yet, all of fandom (so we're led to believe) hates Star Trek Into Darkness and Star Trek because 'they have no plot' yet this movie gets a pass from them! This movie has no plot, and nobody to sympathize with in the form of the Ba'ku (who are way too white for most people), yet it's better simply because the characters are the way the are and not too changed like Kirk was in the new movies. Amazing

The federation where during a massive shooting war Sisko can devote time to a baseball game, helping a hologram get his club back, and the dominion was getting its ass handed to it until the Breen showed up a few episodes before the end.

Yes, thing were very dire for the federation at the time

Do you think that during, say, World War II, that members of the military did nothing but fight the war 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? People always have need of relaxation, entertainment, stress relief, and so forth. It's why, even in the midst of horrible wars, we have the USO which brings entertainers to the soldiers in the field.

Sisko and company stopping for some time on the holodeck is perfectly realistic, even during a massive war such as they were fighting.

SOME wars are like that-not all wars are (see Battlestar Galactica for what I mean). And some soldiers don't get to rest up at all in the ways mentioned by you.

 

[AgentCoop]

^I just recently listened to the new commentary that Frakes and Marina Sirtis did for the Blu-Ray and even he pointed out the fact that the Baku are all white. It's weird.

Incidentally, can we get those two to do commentaries for all the films? Even the ones they weren't in? They were great fun to listen to.

 

[BillJ]

SOME wars are like that-not all wars are (see Battlestar Galactica for what I mean). And some soldiers don't get to rest up at all in the ways mentioned by you.

Battlestar Galactica wasn't a war but an attempted genocide with the Cylons sending wave after wave of killbots (extra points if you get the reference) after the humans. I don't think it's fair to compare the two wars because the two enemies had entirely different goals.

 

[Reanok]

What irks me about the movie Data being killed off.And the silly b4 storyplot.It was a lousy movie.

 

[BillJ]

What irks me about the movie Data being killed off.And the silly b4 storyplot.It was a lousy movie.

Wrong movie.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

If you win the lottery, you're not obligated to share that money or give any of it to charity. If you have healthy kidneys, you're not obligated to volunteer to be an organ donor.

But it doesn't make you any less of a jerk for not doing so.

About that...I used to think that Ted Turner was a jerk for not leaving his fortune to his kids after he died, but after seeing how trust fund brats like Paris Hilton carry on with their parent's money, I now understand why he did it.

 

[T'Girl]

0... but after seeing how trust fund brats like Paris Hilton carry on with their parent's money, I now understand why he did it.

While a common believe that I myself embraced for years, after reading a write up on her by Fortune Magazine I no longer believe in. Yes she does play a dizzy blonde in public, however behind the scenes Paris Hilton is a sharp business woman who has taken her trust fund and increased it enormously.

She learn well from her family while growing up.

 

[AgentCoop]

^Not only that, but the only trust fund kids we ever hear about are the bad ones. The good ones fly under the radar.

Not that I'm speaking from experience. My big legacy will be my parents' furniture.

 

[Armored Saint]

The first time I saw the movie, I was probably thirteen, so I didn't was really concerned about ethical issues. I was instead wondering why radiation didn't start to rejuvenate the Son'a. Geordi's blindness from birth was fastly cured and Worf got back to puberty, but at the end of the movie, Son'a are still old bleached scrotum.

 

[DonIago]

May just be an indication of how far gone they were to begin with.

 

[BillJ]

The first time I saw the movie, I was probably thirteen, so I didn't was really concerned about ethical issues. I was instead wondering why radiation didn't start to rejuvenate the Son'a. Geordi's blindness from birth was fastly cured and Worf got back to puberty, but at the end of the movie, Son'a are still old bleached scrotum.

May just be an indication of how far gone they were to begin with.

You have to wonder what Dougherty was like prior to exposure to the rings?