Yesterday's Enterprise

[WildManWizard]

Seem to recall reading somewhere they while that were filming it, they were thinking it was going to end up being one of the worst episodes, ironically. Sounded like it was a challenge to film, too.

One of my favorite bloopers is at the very end of this one: Guinan asks Geordi about Tasha Yar in Ten Forward - he is still wearing the alternative universe uniform with the high collar.

it totally kills the illusion for me every time

 

[WildManWizard]

What was it's purpose besides giving a better death?

perhaps they were hedging their bets with future script possibilities. we got sela out of it, but I felt her character never felt properly utilized and they wanted to forget about her.

 

[Keith1701]

Great Episode.

 

[Mojochi]

Except we don't actually know what happened to those alternate universes, because we as the audience are only seeing the perspective of the 'prime' universe. Let's take "Yesterday's Enterprise" as an example. Due to the actions of the Enterprise-C being thrown into the future, it created an alternate future timeline where the Federation was at war with the Klingons. By returning to the past, the timeline "righted" itself. But how do we know that the other war timeline didn't keep existing, and we just don't see it? The Abrams films made it clear that the Kelvin universe is an alternate one, branched off from the 'prime' timeline when Nero was thrown into the past. But the 'prime' universe still exists; only in this case we the audience are now seeing the Kelvin universe instead of the 'prime' universe. One of the Star Trek novel writers even used this premise in one of their books, a sequel of sorts to "City on the Edge of Forever." In that book, the alternate timeline created when McCoy went back to the past and kept Edith Keller from dying (before Kirk & Spock "righted" the timeline) still existed, where McCoy was never rescued by Kirk & Spock and that timeline ended up with Germany winning WWII like what Spock saw in the future news reports.

Technically, the ending of Yesterday's Enterprise is retconned into not being the prime timeline either. We never return to seeing the timeline prior to the arrival of the 1701-C. We're in some offshoot now, where Sela exits. Tasha's going back in time ended that timeline... For the viewer anyway

 

[Dukhat]

Technically, the ending of Yesterday's Enterprise is retconned into not being the prime timeline either. We never return to seeing the timeline prior to the arrival of the 1701-C. We're in some offshoot now, where Sela exits. Tasha's going back in time ended that timeline... For the viewer anyway

Well, there's two ways of looking at that: Either it's still the prime timeline and YE was just a predestination paradox, or we are seeing a new timeline immediately after YE. Which would mean that for the former, Sela still existed in the prime timeline before the events of YE, and for the latter, she didn't.

 

[Iamnotspock]

I actually agree with you. I think it was a (reasonably) clever way to try to have it both ways - rebooting the franchise with the original characters while still winking and saying, "no, don't worry, the original universe still 'exists' somewhere out there, just not here."

But it definitely flies in the face of the "rules" as established by basically every prior Star Trek incarnation.

ISTR reading that that's why they made the time travel method something completely new as opposed to using the Guardian or the slingshot; so that it didn't necessarily have to conform to previously established rules.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Technically, the ending of Yesterday's Enterprise is retconned into not being the prime timeline either.

No, it isn't.

We never return to seeing the timeline prior to the arrival of the 1701-C.

That's because there never was one.

Even before this episode takes place, the Ent-C has already travelled to the alternate future, picked up Tasha, and returned. It really is a predestination paradox.

 

[Dukhat]

Even before this episode takes place, the Ent-C has already travelled to the alternate future, picked up Tasha, and returned. It really is a predestination paradox.

One then wonders why Sela never made an appearance before that, if she existed before YE. OTOH, even if the timeline changed, she still never made an appearance before that either, since Picard and the others didn't recognize her before.

 

[Mojochi]

No, it isn't.



That's because there never was one.

Even before this episode takes place, the Ent-C has already travelled to the alternate future, picked up Tasha, and returned. It really is a predestination paradox.

Then that means Sela always existed, & she sure don't have any need of presenting herself until after the fact, that Tasha goes back in time. So something is different by my reckoning, that she is suddenly showing up to raise a stink with the Feds lol. They present it like she's suddenly coming in, out of the blue, & wasn't around before that. Either is possible really

 

[JesterFace]

Did I get this right?

Sela shouldn't exist in your timeline at all after 'Skin of Evil' (season 1) because events where Enterprise-C visited the future never really happened? The war with the Klingons was avoided and Enterprise-C couldn't timetravel into the future to meet Enterprise-D in a war situation because they prevented the war by going back in the first place?
If the timeline was restored when Enterprise-C went back to the past, events of 'Yesterday's Enterprise' didn't happen?

This kind of makes sense and doesn't at the same time.

 

[Dukhat]

Here’s one way to look at it.

Scenario #1 (aka the original timeline): The Enterprise-C responds to a distress call from Narendra III. They are attacked by Romulans who are attacking the Klingon outpost. The ship is destroyed, but the Klingons are impressed by the Federation’s efforts to help them. Peace ensues.

Scenario #2 (aka the possibly changed timeline after YE): The Enterprise-C responds to a distress call from Narendra III. They are attacked by Romulans who are attacking the Klingon outpost. During the battle, a rift in time opens and sends the damaged Ent-C into the future, but because of the time displacement, they’re sent to a future where the Klingons didn’t recognize or were impressed by their help, and now they are at war with the Federation. One El-Aurian during this period realizes that “this shouldn’t be happening,” so the Ent-C is sent back to the battle (with an extra person aboard who wasn’t there before), and the ship is destroyed, but the Klingons are impressed by the Federation’s efforts to help them. Peace ensues.

So really, the only difference between the two scenarios is that war-timeline Tasha Yar was aboard the Ent-C when it goes back in time and resumes the battle. Since we never see Sela before YE, we can’t actually prove if the timeline changed, or if it was always the same because of a predestination paradox.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Parallels used the "infinite realities" trope. If absolutely every decision creates a new timeline, is there even a point worrying about teh prime? Prime², Prime³, etc.

I could certainly buy that Sela was always there during TNG, but we just didn't see her until after YE. The obvious reason is, they didn't create the character until after/as a result of YE, but there's really no in-universe explanation for why she didn't show up before that point. Sela doesn't seem like the patient type.

 

[Thanos007]

She kinda is patient. Her appearance is timed to her rise in the military. Oddly enough she seems more a candidate for the Tal'Shiar. Probably rejected due to her mixed heritage.

 

[Dukhat]

Her appearance is timed to her rise in the military.

Agreed. Remember, Sela is only 20-something years old when we first see her. Before that, she may not have had the means to do what she did, probably because she was in centurion school or something. Mind you, I think it’s completely implausible that she was put into the command position she was in based on her age and experience, but that’s neither here nor there.

 

[JesterFace]

Mind you, I think it’s completely implausible that she was put into the command position she was in based on her age and experience, but that’s neither here nor there.

Perhaps the Romulans knew of her mother, even if it would have been nearly impossible to explain how Tasha was her mother.
So, she was placed on a high position to mess with the Feds.

 

[Mojochi]

Perhaps the Romulans knew of her mother, even if it would have been nearly impossible to explain how Tasha was her mother.
So, she was placed on a high position to mess with the Feds.

Maybe she traded her whole origin for power, blackmailing her father, who'd consorted with a human to birth her to begin with. If she'd conspired to put the blame on someone else, it might have been a secret she could leverage

 

[Dukhat]

Perhaps the Romulans knew of her mother, even if it would have been nearly impossible to explain how Tasha was her mother.
So, she was placed on a high position to mess with the Feds.

Maybe she traded her whole origin for power, blackmailing her father, who'd consorted with a human to birth her to begin with. If she'd conspired to put the blame on someone else, it might have been a secret she could leverage

I was referring more to her age and inexperience. It would be like a Starfleet cadet that just graduated being put in command of the Federation’s newest flagship. Something like that would never happen, right?

 

[Thanos007]

I was referring more to her age and inexperience. It would be like a Starfleet cadet that just graduated being put in command of the Federation’s newest flagship. Something like that would never happen, right?

No. Sela would actually be older than Tasha. By what? 10 years? More? Remember Tash traveled back in time prior to her birth in the main time line. Unless I'm mis-remembering.

 

[Dukhat]

No. Sela would actually be older than Tasha. By what? 10 years? More? Remember Tash traveled back in time prior to her birth in the main time line. Unless I'm mis-remembering.

Tasha traveled 22 years into the past. Picard met Sela a year or two after YE. So if Yar got pregnant a few years after she went back in time, Sela would only be 20-something years old.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Agreed. Remember, Sela is only 20-something years old when we first see her. Before that, she may not have had the means to do what she did, probably because she was in centurion school or something. Mind you, I think it’s completely implausible that she was put into the command position she was in based on her age and experience, but that’s neither here nor there.

Don't forget, Sela's father was a powerful military general. He probably ensured that she moved quickly up the ranks. And since she informed on her own mother, that probably boosted Sela's standing even more in Romulan society.

As for why Sela never appeared before: I like the explanation that she was just not ready. Even with her father's influence, she would have had to attend the Romulan academy just like anyone else. And there was really no reason for Sela to appear any time before she actually did...

 

[Dukhat]

Don't forget, Sela's father was a powerful military general...

Oh, I didn't forget. I just find such nepotism of that nature to be a bit silly. Even if she was fast-tracked, it was quite clear that putting a 20-something emotionally compromised Romulan in a position of command was a huge mistake, since both instances of her being in charge of a nefarious Romulan plot ended in dismal failures.

 

[STEPhon IT]

They should have shelved the script to instead rewrite it into a much better Generations film.

For my tastes, at least a sequel to that episode ala Space Seed to The Wrath of Khan; I also thought it could've been a worthy send off to Denise Crosby. Loads of ideas there instead of the Nexus and the death of Kirk twice.