Spoilers Yeah... I give up - Star Trek has abandoned philosophical naturalism - it's depressing/juvenile

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by INACTIVEUSS Einstein, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Being a sports fan is absolutely no different than being any other type of fan. You watch something that entertains you, you want "your team" to do well. You're happy when it does, you're despondent when it does not. You talk about it with others. There are people who hate what you love, and vice-versa.

    Dead-nuts on just like being a genre or franchise fan.
     
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  2. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Exactly.
     
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  3. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    you even cosplay at any given event
     
  4. Jadeb

    Jadeb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree with you about the "fan entitlement" attitude, but I'm not sure Discovery deserves a lot of slack, or at least as much as some of the old shows. Not only does Discovery enjoy unprecedented resources and freedom, but they're charging us for the privilege of watching it. Further, I'd suggest we consider the shows in their period context. TOS, at its best, was not just great Star Trek but some of the finest television of its time, I'd argue. TNG, when it hit its stride, was strong TV by early '90s standards. Discovery, on the other hand, is trying to compete as prestige television in the era of prestige television but failing to bat in that league.

    That's one reason I'm more willing to forgive some of the Orville's sins -- and there are many -- than I am Discovery's. It mostly succeeds at what it's trying to do in a way that Discovery does not. And I don't think that's a terribly unfair metric.
     
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  5. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    I think every new show is allowed growing pains. So, I'll agree to disagree as to measuring it against Orville. I'm willing to forgive sins of a show as the show is, not against TOS, or TNG, or DS9, or Orville.

    But, that's me. Discovery may enjoy "unprecedented resources and freedom" but it's also enjoying microscopic nitpicking.
     
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  6. Jadeb

    Jadeb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Can't argue that. But it comes with the territory, I'd think. Surely no one who signed up for Star Trek's bold journey into pay TV could have expected otherwise.
     
  7. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    Doesn't make it less frustrating.
     
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  8. nutshell

    nutshell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The OP is wrong on so many levels. At the heart of it is that all the “mysticism” on Discovery has a scientific/natural backing whether the OP acknowledges that or not.
     
  9. Mirror Mirror

    Mirror Mirror Commodore Commodore

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    He also ignores it happening in every other trek series.
     
  10. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    Is that "in a nutshell"

    I do agree, but I also saw the opportunity. I'll show myself out.
     
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  11. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm so glad YOU did it, because I stopped myself twice posting it
     
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  12. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    It was worth it.
     
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  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Even the "destiny?"
     
  14. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that's been a part of Star Trek since at least Star Trek II.
     
  15. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly!
     
  16. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That cuts both ways. To some Discovery has failed to compare well with previous Trek, to others previous Trek is a goldmine to pick out examples to put any other Trek down to excuse Discovery.

    Not many threads deal with Discovery as stand alone.
     
  17. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A lot of my friends who are Luke warm fans of Star Trek absolutely love Discovery. I admire it's approach to storytelling and that fact that it is doing what Enterprise should have done. I'm less enamoured of the swearing and gore as I don't think they're necessary.

    I think it's entirely in keeping with Star Trek philosophy, more so than the first two NuTrek movies, even if I dislike the concept of instantaneous travel, which I think will be done by the end of the season in any event.
     
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  18. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, and I know that that is human nature. I would rather evaluate it as it stands on its own before evaluating it within the greater work.

    In that sense, I guess, for me, yeah, it is a "reboot" (if we must use that term) in that I want to evaluate it on its own merits.

    Seriously? Kirk reaching for his full potential isn't keeping within the human journey and evolutionary optimism in TOS?
     
  19. ralfy

    ralfy Commander Red Shirt

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    If what's in their heads is always going to be different from what's in yours, then how can you enjoy any show?
     
  20. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    The question of every artist, sadly.