X-Men: Days of Future Past - Discussion Thread - SPOILERS

[Guy Gardener]

But there is a running theory that everytime that we have seen Lockjaw talk, that it's just been Karnak or/and Gorgan fucking with people. If you read up on it which you don't have to, it seems like there's two camps inside Marvel at war with each other over whether Lockjaw is a Dog or a Bloke.

The Celestials creating mutants was an idea from Jack Kirby, put to paper and published in 1976 in his Eternals on going, but has been expanded upon a couple times since then probably.

(From Wikipedia.)

When the Celestials visited Earth five million years ago and performed genetic experiments on early proto-humanity, they created two divergent races: the long-lived Eternals, and the genetically unstable and monstrously grotesque Deviants. These experiments also led to the capacity for super-powered mutations in humans. They also performed this experiment on other planets (such as the Kree and Skrull homeworlds) with similar results.

Two people with Super powers making babies will always have a normal human baby?

Are you calling Mr. Sinister an Asshole?

On the other hand, inhuman trumps mutant I could well believe since the kree are right pricks and might need to write that into their experiments genetic code, since terrigenisis plus mutation would lead to a threat to everyone.

Ps.

Quicksilver is always pissed.

 

[Davros]

This movie, and First Class both left me saying. "Magneto is right."

 

[Turtletrekker]

 

[Davros]

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, by and large, he *is* right and certainly has a more realistic assessment of the situation and what is going on than Prof. X does but the actions Magneto takes is hardly "right."

 

[Ethros]

Given DOFP, the future seemed pretty bleak when the sentinals started to go after people who had the mutant gene and could pass it onto children even if they had no mutant power.

Yeah, I think it was that simple, they rounded up EVERYONE because they knew mutants could be born from two non-mutant people.

I'd have still liked to have seen (or heard) a bit more about how things escalted from X3 to DOFP times. Seen as things didn't seem so bad at the end of X3, with Beast being appointed ambassador to the UN by the President for example.

Basically like the montage from the animated version-
Skip to 4:10-
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPCgXDjS-9o[/yt]

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I am being driven insane by the yellow bell peppers. I am sure they were not in common usage in the US in the 70's. I can't find any history of them specifically though. And of course it was the White House so "common usage" may be irrelevant.

10/10 A+++ loved it.

Note to Shinzon: THAT is how you do a younger Patrick Stewart.

 

[Trekker4747]

Given DOFP, the future seemed pretty bleak when the sentinals started to go after people who had the mutant gene and could pass it onto children even if they had no mutant power.

Yeah, I think it was that simple, they rounded up EVERYONE because they knew mutants could be born from two non-mutant people.

I'd have still liked to have seen (or heard) a bit more about how things escalted from X3 to DOFP times. Seen as things didn't seem so bad at the end of X3, with Beast being appointed ambassador to the UN by the President for example.

Basically like the montage from the animated version-
Skip to 4:10-
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPCgXDjS-9o[/yt]

Seems like a LOT happened between X3 (or even The Wolverine) and DoFP. I mean, we're missing pretty much the entire collapse of civilization and some sort of equitable partnership between the X-Men and The Brotherhood.

Having rewatched X1 and X2 recently I really don't think they hold-up too greatly. They're still good movies but compared to most superhero movies these days as well as First Class and DoFP I'm not sure there *as* good as they once were. As much as I like the cast of the future/present versions of the characters I kind of wonder if a reboot or a more rooting in the past isn't the best course right now? The cast for the past versions of the characters are pretty good (and Jackman can still play Wolverine for then) but at somepoint we may need a new cast for the "present" version of the characters at which point we may need a new older Magneto, Xavier as well as new actors for the other X-Men. Which still brings in it with some problems with ages and such which I'm not sure this time-travel soft "reboot" can completely compensate for.

This is a 14-year-old movie franchise. Maybe a cold reboot *should* happen to get everything back on the same page and consistent and to see new versions of these characters.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Who kept thinking of TNG Tapestry, and Kept wondering if Pat was thinking about TNG Tapestry when they were talking about altering Chuck's timeline?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

This movie, and First Class both left me saying. "Magneto is right."

So, Magneto's war against humans ending in the near destruction of both groups mean he's right

 

[Khan444]

I think that it was pretty telling that while Magneto was giving his big "mutants rule humans suck" speech, it kept cutting back to the future mutants getting not just killed, but brutally butchered. I think that that was deliberate on Singer's part. He was showing what Magneto's viewpoint/actions would ultimately lead to, and it wasn't pretty.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Movie Magneto in the original timeline didn't start the war and didn't want to start the war.

What he was right about was that the Humans were going to start the war.

Movie Magneto in the new time line started the war. It lasted 5 minutes until when Mystique shot him.

What he was right about here was that humans had to feel like they had won.

Seriously?

You thought that he thought that was actually an actual assassination attempt?

That is not how you kill Nixon.

Eric had to have been playing around until someone finally stopped him.

(Otherwise, he's a fricking moron.)

 

[Anwar]

Magneto may have a more realistic view of humans fearing mutants, but his solutions are hardly any better than what Charles wants. Magneto's own plans always devolve into mass-murder or all-out genocide.

With some subtly Magneto could easily gain his dream of a mutant world, without the public spectacle or genocide or any of that. But he just seems to love these big mass-murder things.

 

[Guy Gardener]

America is too big and it's population was too stupid and unwieldy back then.

In 1962, Magneto should have taken Cuba and kept it.

Magneto isn't American.

Why should he be so concerned about America more so than the other 200 or so countries?

Of course if tiny European country the size of a football field after tiny European country the size of a football field fell to Mutant oppression or even Mutant Sympathy, on their way to all the tiny African countries the size of Football fields, how long would it be until Russia, America or both would feel the need to step in?

 

[Mr Light]

If they do a Magneto story in the movies again (and I think it's pretty done at this point- there are other villains, dammit!) they should switch his plot to creating a safe haven for mutants like Asteroid M / Avalon / Genosha.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I think part of that is because DOFP isn't quite as heartfelt as First Class. Every time I watch First Class, my heart totally breaks for Mystique because all she really wants is one person to love her for who she really is. And the white-hot rage driving Magneto's quest for revenge against Sebastian Shaw is quite palpable too. But in DOFP, the themes are much more vague, like "hope" & "being the better person."

As others have said, though, X-Men has always been about hope and being the better person. You just described the conflict of the entire mythology in a nutshell. Professor Xavier has always been the one pushing for hope while Magneto thinks mutants are superior to humans. Xavier is constantly pushing for Magneto to be the better person, etc etc. That conflict has been going on in X-Men stories, both on film and in the comics, for decades.

What I loved about Days of Future Past was younger Xavier's internal struggle and journey in the film. If First Class was an origin story about younger Erik, then you can say Days of Future Past is an origin story for younger Charles and Raven/Mystique. Xavier's struggle with overcoming his physical impairment and the loss of Raven and the others really resonated with me, especially as a reversal of his relationship with Logan in the very first X-Men movie. Days of Future Past is an interesting movie because while it effectively rebooted (in a soft way) the entire franchise, it could not have happened without the previous installments.

I enjoy First Class a good deal, but in preparation for this one I went back and re-watched all of the movies (besides X-Men Origins: Wolverine, because why would anyone want to do that). For some reason, First Class doesn't hold up quite as well as I remember. It's kinda cheesy and I never liked Sebastian Shaw as the villain. With Days of Future Past, though, the threat is very real and the themes are stronger than ever. I'm sorry, but Xavier's quest to overcome his "addiction" and embrace his pain made for some of the most emotional moments (for me, anyway) in any X-Men film; when younger Charles confronts older Xavier and Xavier tells him that just because someone stumbles it doesn't mean they have lost their way... I admit I got a little teary-eyed. I think anyone can relate with that.

I did find it interesting, however, that Singer not only rewrote the history for X-Men: The Last Stand and presumably X-Men Origins: Wolverine (if the ending of DOFP is suggesting what I thought it was) but the entire trilogy as well. Logan's line of "Everything past 1973 is a little foggy" or something to that effect suggests the entire X-Men movie lexicon has been rewritten, save for First Class - which leaves a clean slate for the First Class cast as they transition into the next movie and beyond.

If Bryan Singer never directs another X-Men movie again, at least he can solace in the fact that he made a wonderful course correction and put the X-Men films back on track.

 

[sojourner]

Saw the movie recently and have a question. I haven't read any X-Men comics since at least 1995 so one character in the movie has been confusing me. The fiery guy is refered to as Sunspot, but the Sunspot I remember basically only had super strength. He couldn't project flame or fly like the character in the movie. Are those abilities something he's developed in the last 20 years or created for the movie?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This movie, and First Class both left me saying. "Magneto is right."

That's crazy. He's just as driven by fear (at the first sign that his most loyal companion is a threat he tries to murder her without a second thought), arrogant superiority (mutants are "gods"), bigotry (humans are "insects"), and shortsightedness (humans give birth to mutants, so killing them all is counterproductive) as Stryker, the Trasks, Kelly, and their ilk are. A sympathetic origin story and justifiable fears about humans doesn't excuse the horrific actions (attempted genocide) he's taken and beliefs he's held later, any more than the often justifiable fears about mutants humans hold justify their worst actions.

There were humans who opposed the Mutant Registration Act, the Sentinel program, the "Cure", both of the Trasks and Stryker's aggressive actions, just as there were mutants who opposed the Brotherhood and the Hellfire Club. The very fact that these issues dragged on from the 60s through the 2000s indicate that there was a sizable human contingent that didn't want to see mutants mistreated or discriminated against, even though unlike a typical human minority, they did have some people who represented serious threats to human life and society.

So all humans should be wiped out based on the actions of a relative few? How is that any better than those who call for wiping out all mutants based on the actions of a few, or on fear of extinction (which has always been ridiculous, since it's still human beings, just a variant, and it's still your own sons and daughters and grandchildren. But it wouldn't be the first time people act irrationally)? Xavier's mutants are the ones who are on the right path. Magneto is just Mutant Hitler, which he of all people should know better than to become.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Saw the movie recently and have a question. I haven't read any X-Men comics since at least 1995 so one character in the movie has been confusing me. The fiery guy is refered to as Sunspot, but the Sunspot I remember basically only had super strength. He couldn't project flame or fly like the character in the movie. Are those abilities something he's developed in the last 20 years or created for the movie?

Sunspot was definitely doing fiery fly-around stuff in the '90s, when I was reading X-Force.

This movie, and First Class both left me saying. "Magneto is right."

It's right to initiate a race war with the intention of wiping out all non-mutant humans?

Locutus covered most of it but I'll expand on one thing: human fears of mutants being justified. The X-Men (and mutants) have long been an allegory for oppressed peoples. You can use mutation as a metaphor for homosexuality, being black, being transgender, whatever you want. But there's one key difference that tends to get glossed over: oppressed groups in real life don't have superpowers. If all gay people had the ability to incinerate others with the flick of a wrist, fearing them and wanting to regulate their behavior (with regard to their fire-powers, not their sexual proclivities) would be pretty sensible. If being black granted the power of invisibility, well... there are a lot of places I could take that, and I hope you get the point.

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with wanting to monitor and regulate people born with destructive powers. More benign powers (like being able to read thoughts but not control them) don't really make much sense to regulate. A one-size-fits-all solution wouldn't make any sense, but a solution that involves evaluating each mutant's abilities to determine what kind of threat they pose (if any) strikes me as eminently sensible. If you have individuals who can literally, single-handedly lay waste to an entire army (or city), that's an unacceptable state of affairs.

In no way would such measures be about persecuting people for who they are, but rather possessing dangerous and destructive capabilities that existing institutions and societies aren't prepared to handle.

Given that Magneto not only rejects even the mildest regulation upon mutants but would gladly see all non-mutants killed, saying he was right is just ghastly. I suppose the real-world equivalent is the survivalist nut who thinks 95% of humanity needs to be wiped out by a disease/natural disaster/zombie apocalypse in order to "thin the herd" and let the strongest survive. The difference is, Magneto has the power to do it.

 

[sojourner]

Saw the movie recently and have a question. I haven't read any X-Men comics since at least 1995 so one character in the movie has been confusing me. The fiery guy is refered to as Sunspot, but the Sunspot I remember basically only had super strength. He couldn't project flame or fly like the character in the movie. Are those abilities something he's developed in the last 20 years or created for the movie?

Sunspot was definitely doing fiery fly-around stuff in the '90s, when I was reading X-Force.

Ah, I quit pre- X-Force. So they must have given him some additional powers over what he had in New Mutants.