• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

wwe vs tnt anyone watching?

^ I think there's a chance he could be included. Golddust is a popular character. Dustin has had a pretty good career.

My Rao...TNA is bad. Just sooooo awful.
 
I am surprised that scott stiener has not been inducted yet . also, I hope by genisis that things will get better by then . they realy need new talent . I like the main group
of founders just wished they would do something with them instead of holding them back . and here we go agin taking out wrestlers with promise.
 
Scott Steiner is contracted by a rival company. Why would Vince induct someone that is currently employed by TNA? Besides which he's accomplished very little as a singles wrestler. Not to mention that he's a complete douche bag apparently.

To me TNA's problem is that once again the old guys are running the show and promoting themselves while squashing the young guys or ignoring them. This is what happened in WCW. WCW had great talent but they squandered them because they didn't know how to use them. Another observation about TNA I'll make...it's interesting to see what the UFC has been able to do on Spike TV in contrast to TNA. UFC has top notch television programs and programs that focus on their PPV's. While TNA probably has more money and they're production values are shit. The difference between TNA/WWE and the UFC is clearly management and vision. Both the WWE and UFC have creative teams and production teams that are able to produce a quality product on a regular basis. TNA does not. Until that changes, they're always gonna be second fiddle. Eventually even their fans are gonna tire of the same old shit.
 
Did Randy Savage or Jake Roberts ever get inducted? Too bad some of the guys that passed away like Hennig, Luger, and Traylor (Big Boss Man) never got inducted before they passed.
 
Randy Savage is a no no subject around Vince. Do an internet search to find out what the main speculation is around it. Jake Roberts isn't inducted as far as I know.
 
I brought up that rumour at another forum when someone asked why the hell Randy Savage isn't in the Hall of Fame when so many other ridiculous choices on who to put in there have been made. Some argued the rumour must be B.S., because if it had really happened, Savage would've had his legs broken or gone to jail or something. Others argued that nothing was done about it because Vince would want to protect Stephanie from the negative publicity that would swirl around her if anyone did confirm it to the media.

The general consensus seems to be that the reason Savage was blacklisted from the WWF (and will therefore never be in the Hall of Fame) is either because this rumour is true, or because Vince just never forgave him for jumping to WCW in the 90s after he'd supposedly made a deal to come back to the WWF as an announcer after getting injured.

Personally I think the Stephanie rumour is more plausible because Vince seems to have brought back just about everyone who ever pissed him off professionally if he thought money could be made. If Savage did what he allegedly did, however, he would understandably take that too personally to ever forgive the man.
 
There does seem to be some plausibility to it. Rumors are that whenever Savage's name is brought up around Vince that Vince goes ballistic. Savage's brother also has mentioned that the story is true but take that with a grain of salt. It's one of the more interesting wrestling urban legends. Even if it's not true, there is something that is preventing Savage from being inducted in the HOF. He did cut a promo for the WWE All-Stars video game though and is included in the game.
 
I was looking at the roster of WWE All Stars as seen here; http://www.wweallstars.com/roster

The Rock Vs Cena would be cool.
Stone Cold Vs The Miz & Ultimate Warrior Vs The Miz would be cool.
But Roddy Piper Vs CM Punk might be the coolest. :lol: Even though I hate CM Punk.

I wished I owned a system and could get this game. :(
 
Jetfire said:
I was looking at the roster of WWE All Stars as seen here; http://www.wweallstars.com/roster

The Rock Vs Cena would be cool.
Stone Cold Vs The Miz & Ultimate Warrior Vs The Miz would be cool.
But Roddy Piper Vs CM Punk might be the coolest. :lol: Even though I hate CM Punk.

I wished I owned a system and could get this game. :(
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? CM Punk is probably the most talented guy on the roster right now.

On a side note: So, on 4/19 Jimmy Kimmel's guests will be Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and the latest "Dancing with the Stars" castoff.

Theres a very real possibilty that Chris Jericho might be that 'castoff'.

Can you imagine?
 
Wasn't The Rock the first guy he feuded with when he came over to the WWF as Y2J? I vaguely remember that Smackdown where the countdown finally stopped and it was revealed to be Y2J. Might have been the first Smackdown episode actually.
 
Too Much Fun said:
barnaclelapse said:
and I still like pro wrestling more than MMA. Just because something has a higher brutality rate doesn't mean it's going to be better in my mind. The best of wrestling has a sense of spectacle and pageantry to it that I'll take over MMA any day. That's just me.

I don't think Hogan is a bad person or even that callous. He's done some crappy things, and his ego is enormous, but again I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, believe he has a lot of respect for Edge and just didn't think before he spoke (or tweeted in this case).

As for his move set, it's clearly worked pretty well for him for the past thirty years. His contention has always been that American fans demanded less of him in the ring than Japanese fans. I've seen a few of those Japan matches, and he does in fact use moves I don't think I've ever seen him use in an American ring. It's too bad he didn't employ some of that style during his prime in the WWE. Some of his matches might have benefited from it.
Click to expand...

Actually, I pretty much transitioned from a wrestling fan to an MMA fan in 2006 because I felt that MMA was starting to do things wrestling used to better than wrestling can now. This was happening despite the fact that MMA is not fixed. The brutality is not the main appeal for me. I disagree about the lack of spectacle and pageantry and I have since I noticed that in a title match, a champion gets a really reverent build-up as they come out to a more flashy entrance than their opponent. This first time I noticed this was when Matt Hughes came out to a title fight to country music and dimmed lighting...I never thought country music could make me anticipate something! It was all in the presentation.

What hooked me into it in the first place was the build-up for the Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz match. It was like a classic wrestling feud. There was this serious, humourless veteran and this arrogant, smarmy younger guy and they had this perfect face/heel dynamic. The actual result was a nothing match, but the superb 'story' leading into it tricked me into really believing it was going to be something great.

I think UFC has since toned down the volume of pro wrestling-like speeches and supposed feuding going on as there are no longer as many fighters 'talking trash' about their opponents (although I appreciate exceptions like Josh Koscheck). Even when there is trash talk, the fighters tend to confess that they were just hyping up the match and really have no animosity (i.e. GSP and Matt Serra) after the match is over, but I still think MMA has surpassed pro wrestling in many ways.

One thing they do better is keep delivering fresh matches. In WWE, you get the same matches over and over again, for free on TV (i.e. Cena vs. Orton, Cena vs. Edge), so by the time a pay per view rolls around, it's hard to care that the same guys are against each other again. They usually try to make it seem more significant with gimmicks like ladders, but I don't think it really matters.

In addition to more novelty to matches in MMA, wins and losses seem to mean more, because you know that with a certain number of consecutive losses, a person's career could be in serious jeopardy (no phony retirement angles) and it takes several wins to become a title contender. There's no reason wins couldn't be made to matter again in pro wrestling, as they did, for example, when Bill Goldberg earned his title shots through many, many wins. Samoa Joe's undefeated streak is to date probably the best angle TNA ever did (and fucked up).

As for Hogan, I don't think he was ever very impressive as a wrestler from a technical standpoint. I saw some of his Japan work and it wasn't that great. Of course he was an excellent talker and good at making his matches into an exciting spectacle, but that was like, 20 years ago. I don't think he had a single good match in WCW and he's only been successful in the last 20 years for the following reasons:

1) The originality and clever execution of the nWo angle (at least in its first few months)
2) The novelty of an iconic 80s pro wrestling star being in the ring with modern big name wrestlers (i.e. his Wrestlemania match with The Rock, which sucked just like all his other matches since the 90s, but had an incredible atmosphere),
and
3) Wrestlers in their prime carrying him to good matches.

One thing I agree with you about is Lesnar. Like many pro wrestling fans, I was very excited by the 'crossover' appeal of him being in UFC, but interviews he's done in recent years have really soured me on him. A friend of mine who is a big MMA fan has been annoyed that Lesnar got a title shot obviously before getting a good grasp of many of the sport's fundamentals (i.e. more than just sitting on his opponent, ground and pound, and take down defense), but I used to cheer him anyway due to nostalgia for his wrestling days.

I'm sick of him badmouthing wrestling so much, though. When people ask him about it, he says stuff like "it wasn't for me, because I'm 100% real". When asked if he cared that fans booed him in his last match because they knew he was leaving, he said he didn't care because he got paid. What an ungrateful douchebag. Pro wrestling gave him so much name value that contributed to him being in a privileged position in the UFC. If not for that, he would have had to earn his title shot the way others do - through many wins and displaying a lot of talent (which he clearly doesn't have, at least not yet).
Click to expand...

I remember when people came down on Austin for not wanting to cleanly job to him out of nowhere in a King of The Ring qualifying match in 2002. Austin's logic made as much sense to me then as it does now. What would be gained from having the guy who until around that point had been arguably one of the two or three biggest wrestlers in the world (and in 1998/99 THE biggest wrestler in the world) lose to some unknown cleanly and out of nowhere? WWE was ready to throw away what could have been a great feud and a great means for Lesner to establish himself the old-fashioned way. Austin could barely walk as a result of what he gave to the business, and the WWE wanted to him to lose to some new guy who had a nice look and could work a slightly better match than Bill Goldberg? Ridiculous.

There's a lot of young guys getting pushes way too early now. I understand why. There's a lot of pressure to create new talent, and that's especially true right now with guys like Triple H and Undertake near retirement. Unfortunately it means these younger talents have to prove their worth under a great deal more pressure. It's sink or swim, and some of the guys who sink are potentially only sinking because they never got a chance to build up to that big match. Randy Orton is a perfect example. His career barely survived that 2004 World Heavyweight title push.

I see what you're saying with MMA, and I do agree with a lot of it, but I'll still prefer a good wrestling angle building up to a great match over anything MMA has to offer. I enjoy it, but it's never going to be my favorite thing.

I do see what you're saying about MMA's credibility in certain aspects. I agree with a good deal of that. I'm just still at a point where I'll take the best of pro wrestling over the best of MMA. I like both, but I know which one I still enjoy over the other. I certainly don't think your opinion is wrong. I just don't share at it at this time.

The fact that MMA isn't fixed is a plus, even though I've never really believed the fact that wrestling is fixed in any detracts from its good points and the physical wear and tear it still entails. I hope MMA stays that way for its own sake. Certainly that's one of the reasons why boxing has suffered from so much bad public perception over the last several years.

As for Hogan I think you're understating a little bit. The nWo was the catalyst for wrestling in the late-90's. It was the one thing that finally got WWE out of the doldrums and forced them to start pushing guys like Austin and Triple H. It compelled Vince and the gang to be think outside of the box they had established in the mid-80's. That's a huge deal that I don't think is remembered as well as it should be. A lot of that was Hall and Nash, but Hogan was the thing that pushed it over the top. Then you have the whole nWo angle itself. Roughly up to the point where Hogan and Sting met at Starccade '97 you had one of the most exciting things in modern wrestling history going on. I think that's sometimes overshadowed by WCW running it into the ground with the terrible booking decisions that started becoming more and more difficult to ignore by the time 1998 rolled around.

When it was good it was amazing, and Hogan played a large roll in that. He also played a part in the downfall of the nWo and WCW itself, but I don't think he's entirely or even partially to blame for that.

I disagree about the match with The Rock and about the whole novelty opinion in general. I don't Hogan was a great worker. I think he was a solid brawler (which is something that never gets quite enough credit in wrestling) who could be counted on to tell a good story (as J.R. would say) with guys who could hold up their end, too. Hogan has never been very good at carrying someone, but I do think he brought something worthwhile to his best matches. It wasn't always just the other guy carrying him. He was and still is severely limited, but he on his best nights he got a lot more mileage out of those limitations than a lesser talent would have. I thought he had some decent matches in WCW with guys like Flair, Piper, Sting and Goldberg. He also had some of the worst matches in history with guys like Beefcake and Warrior. It was a pretty uneven run for much of those years. I certainly won't argue that.

It doesn't really matter if those matches are twenty or even thirty years old. I think his best work is still enjoyable today.

But his bad matches? Those are some of the all-time greats in the arena of bad matches. Very few guys over the years have been as capable of Hogan over the years of being in a truly god-awful match.

I still don't think Hogan is an inherently bad person. I think he suffers from ego and a lack of common sense that at times can be quite glaring and lead him to say some truly shitty things that I absolutely think he should get his ass handed to him for saying. I also believe he's at a point in his career where he needs to realize the limitations of his better days have increased as he's gotten older. I don't begrudge him the opportunity to continue being involved, but he needs to find something other than what he's doing right now. Honestly I can't think of what that might be. I'd like to believe it could be something. I think Hogan could quite possibly still bring something to the table, but for that to even begin to happen (and for people like to begin to get a sense of what that might be) he needs to let go of who he was (or who he thought he might have been) in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. He needs to get an idea of what the next step in his career should be and go from there.

And if there is indeed nothing, then he should have the grace to walk away and perhaps come back when people start to miss him a little.

Because people will miss him after a while. That does seem to be a constant.

TNA has fucked up so many great possibilities over the years that at this point I've just stopped caring. I'll watch it once in a while and keep up with things, but by and large my experiences with TNA have been largely disappointing. Samoa Joe is a great example. Another would be taking the title off Raven right before the Spike TV premiere. Yet another would be the terrible booking behind AJ Styles' last world title run. At this point I don't even like talking about TNA all that much, because I find myself saying the same things about them over and over again.

Sorry to ramble so much. It's rare I jump into a wrestling discussion like this, so I usually have a lot to say when I do.
 
Satyrquaze said:
Jetfire said:
I was looking at the roster of WWE All Stars as seen here; http://www.wweallstars.com/roster

The Rock Vs Cena would be cool.
Stone Cold Vs The Miz & Ultimate Warrior Vs The Miz would be cool.
But Roddy Piper Vs CM Punk might be the coolest. :lol: Even though I hate CM Punk.

I wished I owned a system and could get this game. :(
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? CM Punk is probably the most talented guy on the roster right now.
Click to expand...

Where did I say CM Punk has no talent? I personally don't like him. :p I did say a Punk/Piper match would be cool. :techman:
 
^
He is doing his job very well. :lol: I think Punk is great in the ring...but yes he does annoy me. ;)

[edit] Then again I am a Miz fan. :p

[add] I do like Mason Ryan...but the rest of the Nexus sucks. :nyah:
 
chris most deffentively needs to be in the hall of fame . He is one of my favorite superstars when he goes heel I still like him when's face he's awesome that was fun to watch that agin . I remmber both coming's and I loved reliving that, that was great thank you . as for the randal savage thing I never knew that . How old would stephenie be at that time ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top