Would you like for Chapel to appear in a new movie?

[Malaika]

I find it makes Kirk come off pretty bad if he's having casual sex with his subordinates so much that he doesn't even remember doing it.

maybe Chapel left for her own reasons and did what made her happy.
If we want to nitpick here, then Carol's personal remarks about Kirk's reputation were inappropriate, to begin with, and she might come off as not so professional.
Kirk is her captain and she is an officer who, above all, had just been busted for lying about her true identity to sneak aboard the enterprise (and she also asked her commanding officer - Spock, ironically - to keep the information from the captain)
Honestly, I don't get the whole wank about the underwear bit but I dunno what the writers were thinking with that whole scene and it's a bit of a joke that they considered the phrase about Chapel a "homage" to the original character.
just lots of fail there.

 

[borgboy]

I guess I'm a hypocrite, as I always did root for Riker/Troi and Picard/Beverly. I'm also a big fan of Calhoun/Shelby in New Frontiers, where they do acknowledge, discuss, and reevaluate their relationship over time. I'm apparently ok with love and marriage between captains and subordinates, but get all judgey over casual sex between captain and subordinate.
It does seem like it would make things a little awkward at least.
Which can make for interesting drama in fiction. I'm not at all opposed to messy personal issues in the stories, just acknowledging the problems these kind of relationships can bring.
I'm kind of iffy on Uhura and Spock as a couple. I'm still looking at them going "Really?" any time they're together. Kirk and Carol had no chemistry at all imo. I think Uhura would work better with Kirk, although seriously, Kirk and Spock are the real true love.

 

[Cara007]

I guess I'm a hypocrite, as I always did root for Riker/Troi and Picard/Beverly. I'm also a big fan of Calhoun/Shelby in New Frontiers, where they do acknowledge, discuss, and reevaluate their relationship over time. I'm apparently ok with love and marriage between captains and subordinates, but get all judgey over casual sex between captain and subordinate.
It does seem like it would make things a little awkward at least.
Which can make for interesting drama in fiction. I'm not at all opposed to messy personal issues in the stories, just acknowledging the problems these kind of relationships can bring.
I'm kind of iffy on Uhura and Spock as a couple. I'm still looking at them going "Really?" any time they're together. Kirk and Carol had no chemistry at all imo. I think Uhura would work better with Kirk, although seriously, Kirk and Spock are the real true love.

To you, kirk and spock are the real true love because you love your slash fan fiction and you are a gay man. Malakia probably thinks uhura and spock are the real true love because they are an interracial couple and because she is black . She is obviously rooting for the black female character to get the guy. this is what happens when we push our own beliefs on a pairing simply because it reflects our own life. we become blindly bias and ignorant.

This is not the first time I have heard this topic.I can't even believe it is still a conversation.Sorry I don't want Kirk and Spock to be in a homosexual relationship . it will ruin their friendship and it is also unnecessary.

What has our society even become? Why cant 2 guys be best friends without their female fans and gay fans insisting they become lovers.

Is it fair on their female loving counterparts. Is it fair on the standard loving heterosexual couple that is rooted and required in every story since the history of man kind.

From Rose/Jack in Titanic to Clark and Louis Lane in Superman, Romeo and Juliet from Shakespare classic play to Rhett and Scarlet in Gone with the Wind to Han/Leia in Star Wars to Aragorn/Arwen in lord of the rings and to even Miss Piggie and Kermit from the Muppets. Rhe lists goes on.


We as a society now see sex as the end point of every relationship even that of siblings. There are now female marvel fans now pushing for Thor and Loki to become a couple.

Lets all forget they are brothers (rolling my eyes).

It does not matter if they are not brothers by blood. They are still brothers. sex should not be part of their relationship.

The Same goes for Kirk and Spock. they have a very deep friendship and have called each other friends for nearly 50 years and at the same time shown romantic interest in women. why are female fans and gay men pushing for them to be gay.

Why cant the female fans and LGBT community respect heterosexual couples any more.

a lot of people like me who greatly enjoys heterosexual pairings have never pushed or demanded that an established gay character be made straight so why are people pushing for established straight characters to be gay?



Please where is the tolerance in that?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Chapel is fine, but there are other characters whom I would much prefer seeing in a future film - characters we haven't ever actually seen yet. For example: Moves-With-Burning-Grace.

 

[Nerys Myk]

[
a) If Kirk doesn't know the names of his crew generally it makes him appear like a poor captain

Does it?

KIRK: Who are you?
MULHALL: Doctor Ann Mulhall, Astro-biology. Well, I was ordered to report here for landing party duty.

I hadn't forgotten those but bless you for reminding us

However, Kirk was at least aware of McGivers even if he'd had no real interaction with her and he may not have known Mulhall to put a name to a face but he could still have known about her.

He spent time in sick bay with Chapel in the first movie and if he slept with her as well, I think my criticism is sound. If on the other hand she was one of many nurses in sick bay and they had no direct interaction, the fact that he does not remember her name is far less unedifying.

Splitting hairs there with the "may not have". Fact is Kirk doesn't know Mullhall and is vague on who McIvers is.

Nothing in the first film indicates that Kirk spent any time with Chapel when he was in sickbay.

Is it ok for a starship Captain to be sleeping with the crew that serve under him anyways? I'd think that would be a breach of ethic if not outright against the rules.
Of course, Spock is Uhura's superior. That does make me think it's kind of creepy that nuTrek's so full of men in positions of authority sleeping with women subordinates. Every prominant female character that isn't a romantic interest for a man that's her superior officer. All two of them, three if you count Chapel off screen.

Did I miss a scene? I don't recall Kirk and Marcus being in a romantic relationship in the film.

 

[CorporalClegg]

To you, kirk and spock are the real true love because you love your slash fan fiction and you are a gay man.

Malakia probably thinks uhura and spock are the real true love because they are an interracial couple and because she is black . She is obviously rooting for the black female character to get the guy.

this is what happens when we push our own beliefs on a pairing simply because it reflects our own life. we become blindly bias and ignorant.

Pot/kettle?

This is not the first time I have heard this topic.I can't even believe it is still a conversation.Sorry I don't want Kirk and Spock to be in a homosexual relationship . it will ruin their friendship and it is also unnecessary.

How so?

What has our society even become? Why cant 2 guys be best friends without their female fans and gay fans insisting they become lovers.

Humans are androgynous. Our society hasn't "become" anything; it's merely started to accept that.

Is it fair on their female loving counterparts. Is it fair on the standard loving heterosexual couple that is rooted and required in every story since the history of man kind.

Wut?

From Rose/Jack in Titanic to Clark and Louis Lane in Superman, Romeo and Juliet from Shakespare classic play to Rhett and Scarlet in Gone with the Wind to Han/Leia in Star Wars to Aragorn/Arwen in lord of the rings and to even Miss Piggie and Kermit from the Muppets. Rhe lists goes on.

There are plenty of same-sex relationships throughout literature too. Shakespeare wrote some as he was in one.

We as a society now see sex as the end point of every relationship

It is.

It does not matter if they are not brothers by blood. They are still brothers. sex should not be part of their relationship.

Says you. When any biological concern is removed from the equation, it's not for you or anyone else to decide what is and is not a proper relationship.

The Same goes for Kirk and Spock. they have a very deep friendship and have called each other friends for nearly 50 years and at the same time shown romantic interest in women. .

They can't have interest in both?

Why cant the female fans and LGBT community respect heterosexual couples any more.

Why can't you respect LGBT relationships?

a lot of people like me who greatly enjoys heterosexual pairings have never pushed or demanded that an established gay character be made straight so why are people pushing for established straight characters to be gay?

Fallacy.

Please where is the tolerance in that?

Once more with feeling:

 

[borgboy]

I know Marcus wasn't really involved with Kirk, so maybe I'm pushing the issue there, fair enough.
I'm allowed to ship Kirk and Spock if I want to. Nobody has a right to tell other people which characters they can want together. This browbeating of me any time gay or slash issues come up is getting old. I don't recall that I've insisted on any kind of changes to the canon couples, all I've done is discuss my thoughts.
Considering the only gay characters in Trek are supporting characters in the novels, I don't think anyone's in danger of being overrun by fictional gays from the future. I'm not sure what the point of listing famous heterosexual couples was. It just makes me think there's plenty of room for some diversity in our entertainment.

There's been an active fandom of Kirk/Spock fans since practically the beginning of Trek, and K/S slashers pretty much single handed invented slash. Like it or not, it's part of Trek history. It's also an extremely specialized niche of fandom that should be pretty easy to ignore of you don't like it.

 

[Cara007]

To you, kirk and spock are the real true love because you love your slash fan fiction and you are a gay man.

Malakia probably thinks uhura and spock are the real true love because they are an interracial couple and because she is black . She is obviously rooting for the black female character to get the guy.

Pot/kettle?

How so?

Humans are androgynous. Our society hasn't "become" anything; it's merely started to accept that.
Wut?

There are plenty of same-sex relationships throughout literature too. Shakespeare wrote some as he was in one.

It is.

Says you. When any biological concern is removed from the equation, it's not for you or anyone else to decide what is and is not a proper relationship.

They can't have interest in both?

Why can't you respect LGBT relationships?

a lot of people like me who greatly enjoys heterosexual pairings have never pushed or demanded that an established gay character be made straight so why are people pushing for established straight characters to be gay?

Fallacy.

Please where is the tolerance in that?

Once more with feeling:

Did you read my post?

I respect LGBT relationships. Like I said I don't insists that they turn gay characters straight. so why are people insisting that they make straight characters gay.

you are also dead wrong on the brothers things and you are showing your ignorance. this is the reason why a lot of parent are heavily counselled and some even undergo psychological analysis when they are adopting a child.

when you adopt a child you are suppose to love the child as your own same goes for his adopted siblings. Them having sex is still incests.


Thor and Loki are brothers. please girls, stop perverting their relationship.

I am also embarrassed that you honestly think sex is the end point of every relationship. it just proves your ignorance again and shows how far decayed our society has become and you wonder why there are so many unwanted pregnancies, single mothers and STDs. Do people now even have a little standard of morality left? probably not.

Lastly there are not plenty of same sex relationship that is just media brain washing. Literature has always written the standard romantic relationship between a man and a woman. From much ado about nothing with Beatrice and Bennedict to Romeo and Juilet, Lancelot and Guinevere, Robin Wood and Marian, Scarlett O’Hara and Rhett Butler, Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice.

Every great fundamental literature writer has always had a standard relationship between a man and women central to his story. films are not different.


borgboy: Are you aware that that slash has no substance and it is nothing more than a sexual fantasy for women. all slash fans are girls only and that does not say much for the pairings.

we have had this conversation before about how women get turned on when they see two men have sex. there is no substance in that.

I never cared for slash. I only started caring when the slash fans started attacking the loving heterosexual cannon pairings.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I may be an ignorant, brain-washed bumpkin, but at least I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[M'Sharak]

To you, kirk and spock are the real true love because you love your slash fan fiction and you are a gay man.

Pot/kettle?

How so?

Humans are androgynous. Our society hasn't "become" anything; it's merely started to accept that.
Wut?

There are plenty of same-sex relationships throughout literature too. Shakespeare wrote some as he was in one.

It is.

Says you. When any biological concern is removed from the equation, it's not for you or anyone else to decide what is and is not a proper relationship.

They can't have interest in both?

Why can't you respect LGBT relationships?

Fallacy.

Please where is the tolerance in that?

Once more with feeling:

Did you read my post?

I respect LGBT relationships. Like I said I don't insists that they turn gay characters straight. so why I people insisting that they make straight characters gay.

you are also dead wrong on the brothers things and you are showing your ignorance. this is the reason why a lot of parent are heavily counselled and some even go undergo psychological analysis when they are adopting a child.

when you adopt a child you are suppose to love the child as your own same goes for his adopted siblings. Them having sex is still incests.


Thor and Loki are brothers. please girls, stop perverting their relationship.

I am also embarrassed that you honestly think sex is the end point of every relationship. it just proves your ignorance again and shows how far decayed our society has become and you wonder why there are so many unwanted pregnancies, single mothers and STDs. Do people now even have a little standard of morality left? probably not.

Lastly there are not plenty of same sex relationship that is just media brain washing. Literature has always written the standard romantic relationship between a man and a woman. From much ado about nothing with Hero and Horatio to Romeo and Juilet, Lancelot and Guinevere, Robin Wood and Marian, Scarlett O’Hara and Rhett Butler, Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice.

Every great fundamental literature writer has always had a standard relationship between a man and women central to his story. films are not different.


borgboy: Are you aware that that slash has no substance and it is nothing more than a sexual fantasy for women. all slash fans are girls only and that does not say much for the pairings.

we have had this conversation before about how women get turned on when they see two men have sex. there is no substance in that.

I never cared for slash. I only started caring when the slash fans started attacking the loving heterosexual cannon pairings.

That will be enough soapboxing. If this is something you really want to talk about, start a thread about it (in a forum appropriate to the topic, as in: not this forum) or put it in a blog, but don't hijack a thread which is about something else.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

so why I people insisting that they make straight characters gay.

Because it is fun.

Really, the point of all fandom.

 

[Malaika]

Malakia probably thinks uhura and spock are the real true love because they are an interracial couple and because she is black . She is obviously rooting for the black female character to get the guy. this is what happens when we push our own beliefs on a pairing simply because it reflects our own life. we become blindly bias and ignorant.

Either I'm experiencing an example of "deja vu" here or you and serenitytrek1 are twins

So, again, did I miss something here? because I don't think we know each other nor I showed you pictures of me.
If I did then you'd notice, unless you were blind, that I look like a typical european gal (guess why). Using your "logic" I should be rooting for Carol/Spock.
Anyway, even if I was black (the fact that I'm whiter than Edward Cullen only adds to the irony of the whole thing here) I don't see how this can remotely be your business and relevant to the topic.

I don't get what being white, yellow, black or blue like Neytiri has anything to do with our opinions here and the fact that you (keep?) bringing this stuff up and attacking me says more about you as a person than me, frankly.
I don't know what's you problem but a lot of star trek fans are people of color so yes, a lot of the Uhura fans and S/U fans might be black and frankly your remark does hide some racist passive aggressive bulls**t here.

This is just a star trek fanboard where people are simply sharing their opinions about that weird thing called fiction
we aren't here to be play the patients of your Sigmund Freud role playing. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Cara007]

Malakia probably thinks uhura and spock are the real true love because they are an interracial couple and because she is black . She is obviously rooting for the black female character to get the guy. this is what happens when we push our own beliefs on a pairing simply because it reflects our own life. we become blindly bias and ignorant.

Either I'm experiencing an example of "deja vu" here or you and serenitytrek1 are twins

So, again, did I miss something here? because I don't think we know each other nor I showed you pictures of me.
If I did then you'd notice, unless you were blind, that I look like a typical european gal (guess why). Using your "logic" I should be rooting for Carol/Spock.
Anyway, even if I was black (the fact that I'm whiter than Edward Cullen only adds to the irony of the whole thing here) I don't see how this can remotely be your business and relevant to the topic.

I don't get what being white, yellow, black or blue like Neytiri has anything to do with our opinions here and the fact that you (keep?) bringing this stuff up and attacking me says more about you as a person than me, frankly.
I don't know what's you problem but a lot of star trek fans are people of color so yes, a lot of the Uhura fans and S/U fans might be black and frankly your remark does hide some racist passive aggressive bulls**t here.

This is just a star trek fanboard where people are simply sharing their opinions about that weird thing called fiction
we aren't here to be play the patients of your Sigmund Freud role playing. Thanks but no thanks.

Who is serenitytrek1?

No. I am new here.

I simply clicked on your name and read your past posts. In one of your past posts, you said you were black. So I put two and two together . How mad are you going to get if Spock leaves Uhura for a white girl?

A lot of the time black female fans tend to ship the black female character with the white guy by default. They also hate on the white female character just like slash fans hate on the heterosexual paring. I have seen this pattern way too much on Tumblr and in fan fictions.


What is racist is for black female fans to ship uhura/spock simply because she is black. Just like it is racist for white female fans not wanting uhura with spock because she is black.

 

[borgboy]

I don't think we should be discussing or speculating on poster's race unless the poster wants to bring it up in context to a discussion.
Really, we all need to be careful not to veer into not making personal attacks. I know I've had to reign myself in and be as nice as I can even when I get emotional about things.
Yes, the majority of fic couples are straight. That's a big part of why slash was invented, to fill a void. There are very very few gay couples to root for in fiction. Is it that hard to understand why a gay man would want to root for gay couples? If they aren't being created offically, then some people will recreate the text, in an imaginary way, to please themselves. Who does that hurt, besides fictional people? They can deal with it.
I ship Picard/Beverly, Riker/Troi, Janway/Chakotay, and in Trek lit, Calhoune/Shelby. There are no canon gay male couples to ship, so I will follow slash too. That doesn't mean I don't understand the difference between slash and fan fic and the "Real" canon version.
Sorry to continue to go OT with this (in the thread I started even!) but I needed to get that off my chest. If anybody feels the need to continue this, let's start a new thread somewhere else.

 

[Cara007]

I don't think we should be discussing or speculating on poster's race unless the poster wants to bring it up in context to a discussion.
Really, we all need to be careful not to veer into not making personal attacks. I know I've had to reign myself in and be as nice as I can even when I get emotional about things.
Yes, the majority of fic couples are straight. That's a big part of why slash was invented, to fill a void. There are very very few gay couples to root for in fiction. Is it that hard to understand why a gay man would want to root for gay couples? If they aren't being created offically, then some people will recreate the text, in an imaginary way, to please themselves. Who does that hurt, besides fictional people? They can deal with it.
I ship Picard/Beverly, Riker/Troi, Janway/Chakotay, and in Trek lit, Calhoune/Shelby. There are no canon gay male couples to ship, so I will follow slash too. That doesn't mean I don't understand the difference between slash and fan fic and the "Real" canon version.
Sorry to continue to go OT with this (in the thread I started even!) but I needed to get that off my chest. If anybody feels the need to continue this, let's start a new thread somewhere else.

I agree as well , we should not bring characters race but sometimes this things matter. A lot of people are driven by their race ad sexuality to do things. Last Year I went on an answer site and the question was: Are spock and uhura married?

you would not have believe the answer. It was so upsetting and derogatory. the answer was No Spock does not marry N word people.

I believe that answer brought a lot of complains and the administrator had to take it down. the answer now is No they are not married.

Sometimes all this things can get out of hand. I have witness hate and racism from both sides.

I am just trying to find a common balance for all. which is why I rather have a gay couple like willow/tera than a slash couple like kirk and spock since Spock is already in a romantic relationship with uhura and Kirk likes having sex with lots of girls. there is no need for them to be a gay couple it wont fit their characters.

You know my opinion on slash. I do not like it however not once will I ever call you a [objectionable slur for "gay man" redacted] or say no kirk and spock are not [objectionable slur for "gay man" redacted]s. No human being deserves that kind of insult and derogatory attack regardless of how they live their life.

Now back to Chapel. Yes chapel can appear in the 3rd film but I doubt anything can come off it, The film already has too many characters and so much is going on in this new trek films.

 

[Malaika]

Who is serenitytrek1?
No. I am new here.

no need to justify yourself, we know you're new here as you have a different nickname and posting with two nicknames would be against the rules, right?
still, sometimes deja vu are so powerful they're impossible to ignore....

I clicked on your name and read your past posts. In one of your past posts, you said you were black.

Did you seriously read 114 posts? out of curiosity did you do that for everyone or I'm the lucky one?

well, sorry but I don't remember ever saying that, if I did that it would be a lie.
Perhaps you assumed it from a comment where I was talking about the racial issues related to characters like Uhura that made it impossible in the 60s to have a pair like S/U and thus I was pointing up the lack of intersectionality in some stereotyped feminist arguments that wrongly claim that Uhura is reduced to a love interest.
Maybe you think, by default, that a person gotta be black to acknowledge racial issues or appreciate a character like Uhura and interracial relationships. I'm sorry to burst your bubble here, but Uhura and S/U do have a lot of fans that are not poc. Just like white couples do have a lot of fans that aren't necessarily white. In the same way, you don't need to be gay to appreciate fictional same sex relationships.

and as a matter of fact that's none of your business anyway. The only reason I replied to your personal attack is because of the irony of you assuming that I look like Uhura. (I mean, thank you lmao)
Using your logic I should ship Carol/Spock or - on the tos side - Spock/Chapel. Thank you for enlightening me about what should be my preferences. I could never realize that by myself..

So I put two and two together. How mad are you going to get if Spock leaves Uhura for a white girl?

LOL no more mad than those who are already pissed off he got one girlfriend, to begin with. It would be amusing for sure to watch some people's reaction upon discovering that Spock is giving Kirk a run for his money and he gets all the girls

A lot of the time black female fans tend to ship the black female character with the white guy by default. They also hate on the white female character just like slash fans hate on the heterosexual paring. I have seen this pattern too much on Tumblr and in fan fictions.

so according to you every Uhura fan must be a black girl who sides with her by default and not just because, idk, they just like her and like an existing canon couple and have opinions like you?
well, who I'm to change such a logical belief anyway? just please picture me like Zoe Saldana if you can

So, what are the psycological reasons behind YOUR opinions and biases, then?


on a serious note and jokes aside
You're making a lot of generalizations you're not entitled to make and you're saying a lot of judgmental bulls**t about fans that happen to be people of color and that they surely don't have to justify themselves to you. It's baffling how you don't seem to realize how inappropriate the tone of your comments is and how all the more offensive it could have been if I actually was a black woman and how offensive it can be for the poc lurking this site.
Who the heck you think you are?

 

[BillJ]

I am just trying to find a common balance for all. which is why I rather have a gay couple like willow/tera than a slash couple like kirk and spock since Spock is already in a romantic relationship with uhura and Kirk likes having sex with lots of girls. there is no need for them to be a gay couple it wont fit their characters.

You know my opinion on slash. I do not like it however not once will I ever call you a [objectionable slur for "gay man" redacted] or say no kirk and spock are not [objectionable slur for "gay man" redacted]s. No human being deserves that kind of insult regardless of how they live their life.

Why do you care how individual fans choose to imagine character relationships? It's up to the individual to consume and enjoy entertainment on their terms, not yours.

 

[M'Sharak]

As always, let's keep the discussion about movies, characters, writing, and the like, and try not to make this about other fans or fan groups.

Also: Cara007, there had to be a way you could have made your points in this post without resorting to the use of derogatory language, even if not used as a direct insult. Please be more careful about that in the future; any further such instances may result in warnings being issued.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I have shipped Kirk and Spock since the day I went to a convention as a teenager and saw all the K/S fanzines and it was suddenly so very very obvious. I assume if I had had the internet back then I would have shipped them before that

However that doesn't mean I don't want Spock and Uhura together, I think it is very sweet. I love your sig Malaika I absolute adored the 2009 movie and two things I loved about it (among many) were the Spock and Uhura relationship AND how it was the slashiest K/S ever. Those actors played to that theme, such chemistry!

So it's not either/or. You can appreciate many possibilities and express multiple attitudes simultaneously to quote the man himself.

 

[CorporalClegg]

out of curiosity did you do that for everyone or I'm the lucky one?

You're just that engaging.