Would you have liked to see Jadzia on season 7?

[Gary Mitchell]

I would have liked Jadzia to have been around to the end. I was going to give Ezri a chance even though she was a little annoying but one scene kind of killed it for me. I don't remember the episode title but Ezri was talking to Julian and told Julian that if Jadzia hadn't married Worf, she would have ended up with him. I don't know about Julian, but hearing something like that would have broken my heart all over again..and Ezri is supposed to be a counselor.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

They are not one in the same. And if Worf, or Martok for that matter, had any notion of what Sirella would have demanded of Jadzia, it was negligent not to inform her. It's not like they didn't talk about the wedding--Martok complained that they did it all the time.

This helps to prove my point. They did know how orthodox Sirella was about the traditions, Jadzia was warned. She knew what to expect—that Sirella was a pain and super strict about everything.

I honestly think she was just pissed because for once she wasn’t the absolute best at everything she does.

She treated Sirella like crap, for no reason. Sirella was letting her join the family, she just did the ritual training a little more rigorous than usual because she needed Jadzia to prove she’s really ready to be a Klingon and that’s shes worthy of being part of the House of Martok.

When she brought up this dishonorable story about her real 23rd grandmother being a lowly maiden, it was totally not an equal retaliation for Sirella being hard on her. AND even after she did that Sirella still wanted to work with her! Then she denied more training/judging because she wanted to party and get wasted.

Sirella actually wasn't that bad, that warm hug between them at the end was really sweet.

My conclusion is just that Jadzia was being an entitled little baby.

The best part of the episode was Nog's little dance.

Absolutely.

And Morn dancing!! My eternal ST crush.

 

[Tosk]

It's always a little bit odd for me to see people arguing about DS9 characters making bad choices, or being pig-headed, or snapping at people for unjustified reasons, or learning from their mistakes.

That's DS9. That's what these characters have always done. Sure they grew to be closer over time and many of them spent time together as friends, but they still would snap and snipe and grumble and make mistakes in regards to their relationships. And they didn't always apologize.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Sirella actually wasn't that bad, that warm hug between them at the end was really sweet.

In the end , perhaps, but in the beginning, she was a bigot, as per Martok.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

In the end , perhaps, but in the beginning, she was a bigot, as per Martok.

Yeah, she was a bigot by Human standards. I don’t know if the Klingon culture considers bigotry a real thing.

That doesn’t make it right, but different aliens have different values, like how Ferengi are misogynists.

 

[DonIago]

I suppose Sirella may have taken the view that Jadzia was essentially a foe to be conquered from the outset, and as such, any resistance that couldn't immediately be crushed was a massive problem.

 

[zenophite]

Thanks @Marynator , .....They shouldn’t have gotten Married and they never really made a good case of why they got together in the first place other than that she was into the Klingon thing. Or really any non human. We don’t even see Worf’s interest in her, he never expressed it IIRC.

I wholeheartedly agree. It seems that as soon as the writers invented a Klingon related backstory for Dax, they jumped on this Klingon romance angle without any real build up. It all seemed artificial and lacking in any real chemistry to me.

I see what you’re saying about Sirella being overly orthodox, but I still stand by the point that Jadzia should have anticipated this.

I think Mary made a good point when she said it was pretty much just a big wedding episode. They needed a plot and it seemed like this one was haphazardly thrown together. Jadzia didn’t have gripes with Worf’s rigid Klingon-ness in the past, in fact it’s arguably one of the reasons she was attracted to him.

I think ultimately it’s just hard for me to see any good in her as a character here. She was really arrogant and snotty in this episode and her comments about negotiating the Khitomer accord were so frustrating. She talks about Worf in a very dickish way, just because he wasn’t married five times like her! Come on, Dax..

I think Jadzia became increasingly annoying as time went on precisely because she had this air of superiority and got pretty judgmental about things that didn't fit into her particular world view. This became especially apparent as the Klingon elements were emphasized.

Worf was "more Klingon than the Klingons." I think he would have ended up disappointed/frustrated/whatever if he was with a traditional Klingon raised in the Klingon Empire, as the reality would be different from his idealized, lofty and romanticized expectations.
Kor

I've always thought this was one of the key points to Worf's character that was not taken advantage of thoroughly enough throughout his character arc on both shows... However I'd take the opposite view. I think that despite facing the reality of the Klingon culture and it's failings in light of his romantic notions - Worf remained uncompromising in his insistence on being the paragon of Klingon virtues and ideals - part of which is intimately tied to bloodline etc. As such I think it made his relationship with Jadzia even less believable than it otherwise would have been. Recall in "Birthright part 2" his reaction to Ba'el being a half-breed Romulan, calling it an 'obscenity' initially.

I think it would have made more sense for him to pair with a Klingon woman - or at least a female whose non-Klingon ancestry was not immediately obvious like Ba'el or K'Ehleyr.

Let me ask this more broadly: how should one treat a prejudicial racist, even in one's family. Martok admits that Sirella is opposed to the marriage a priori on grounds of race, and it is at least suggested the she is using the premarital rituals to scuttle the union. What does one do? Should Jadzia simply "know her place", accepting that the patriarchal society would probably take her agency. Should she confront that prejudice? At what level must she accept Sirella's racism?

The thing is that she doesn't have to accept it because no one was forcing her to marry Worf. The counter argument is why should she expect an entire culture to bend to her ideals because she has the self perception of being morally superior?

 

[Kor]

...
I've always thought this was one of the key points to Worf's character that was not taken advantage of thoroughly enough throughout his character arc on both shows... However I'd take the opposite view. I think that despite facing the reality of the Klingon culture and it's failings in light of his romantic notions - Worf remained uncompromising in his insistence on being the paragon of Klingon virtues and ideals - part of which is intimately tied to bloodline etc. As such I think it made his relationship with Jadzia even less believable than it otherwise would have been. Recall in "Birthright part 2" his reaction to Ba'el being a half-breed Romulan, calling it an 'obscenity' initially.
...

Worf had strong feelings about Romulans in particular, especially in light of his family history. I'm sure he would have been just fine with Ba'el being part Human, or Andorian, or Tellarite, or Horta, or whatever else as long as it wasn't Romulan!

Kor

 

[Riker'sMailbox]

Jadzia a character I would have been friends with had she existed in real life. She was a bit of a brawler, a drinker , she had a lot of dating experience, kind of a know-it-all, but she was immensely interesting. Ezri is the type of person I would have punched in the face in real life so I guess that's my answer. Yes, Jadzia should have been on season 7.

 

[zenophite]

Worf had strong feelings about Romulans in particular, especially in light of his family history. I'm sure he would have been just fine with Ba'el being part Human, or Andorian, or Tellarite, or Horta, or whatever else as long as it wasn't Romulan! Kor

Well, ultimately he apologizes to Ba'el and declares love for her and obviously he produced a child with the half-human K'Ehylr so I don't disagree with you necessarily. The consistency, though is that both women had overtly Klingon physical attributes despite not being 'pure' Klingon. In addition to that, they both had 'outsider' aspects which would appeal to him as an outsider of sorts himself.

From my view I think it would be consistent with the character that, as one who is constantly trying to prove himself to be a true Klingon, he would prize that aspect and seek it out in a potential mate. Obviously Jadzia represents as far a deviation from any sort of Klingon tradition as you can get and thus I find it a less believable pairing.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

The thing is she that doesn't have to accept it because no one was forcing her to marry Worf. The counter argument is why should she expect an entire culture to bend to her ideals because she has the self perception of being morally superior?

Yes yes yes. This.

She was joining THEIR culture. She was ASKING to be accepted. That’s what the most frustrating part of it. When you’re asking permission, the least you could do is show a little humility.

Jadzia: Make the damn 3 day candles. Take a little bit of a beating from Sirella’s attitude. Accept that she knows her shit, and that she’s essentially doing you a service by letting you try to join this family.

 

[DonIago]

I still think Jadzia must have simply been caught off-guard to some degree, and got her back up as a result. I'm not saying that excuses the situation, but it should be a reasonable mitigating circumstance.

 

[kkt]

Yes, I would have liked to have seen Jadzia in season 7...
.
.
.
.
.
in Worf's flashback montage.

 

[HugeLobes]

I only liked Jadzia when I rewatched, although she does have some awful episodes. After the character was revised, she really became the heart of the station. Everyone loved Jadzia. Gambled with Quark, sparred with Worf, geeked out with Bashir, got Kira into dating, messed with Odo, and most of all formed a great friendship with Sisko.

I think it's quite a clever retcon. The writers seemed to get that a centuries old being with numerous previous hosts would be the exact opposite of that original wise and distant Dax - instead, she has a devil may care attitude, zero prejudices, fantastic interpersonal skills. She just wants people to be happy and is generally willing to work around their points of view. This is best seen in her friendship with Quark.

This is why I wouldn't want her back in season 7. Killing Jadzia should have been a great way to set a darker tone for the final season. She was pretty superfluous in terms of plot, which might be why she had some of the weaker episodes, but she was an absolute rock for the crew. Losing her should have had impact.

But instead we get Ezri, who is perfectly summed up by TribbleFeeder:

Ezri had no depth at all. She was just a 90s-quirky-bubbly fill-in character. She might as well have been on 7th Heaven or Dawson’s Creek.

Honestly, bravo. Ezri was almost a Manic Pixie Dream Girl. Seemed so out of place in VOY, and having her around really screwed up the impact of Jadzia's death when she stepping in as 'counsellor'. Worst of all, she in no way seemed like a character with centures of memories jostling around in her.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

But instead we get Ezri, who is perfectly summed up by TribbleFeeder:
Honestly, bravo.

Haha thanks Lobes!

 

[Kilana2]

Jadzia a character I would have been friends with had she existed in real life. She was a bit of a brawler, a drinker , she had a lot of dating experience, kind of a know-it-all, but she was immensely interesting. Ezri is the type of person I would have punched in the face in real life so I guess that's my answer. Yes, Jadzia should have been on season 7.

I love Jadzia, but also Ezri. But I can understand your feelings. Ezri was quit insecure after her joining with Dax. She was annoying. Garak would have glady punched her in her face. And I really hated Ezri's romance with Worf. If felt so wrong. Ezri became more likeable in later episodes. It is alway difficult to join a cast in the last season. And Nicole de Boer is quite cute. Ony thing I regret is that they weren't allowed to show Jadzia scenes in What you leave behind.

 

[Armus]

^Garak was so hard on Ezri, but she took it, and ended up helping him. All Jadzia did was make obnoxious quips that helped no one, and worst of all, annoyed me, DS9's most important viewer.

 

[Armus]

I agree that Ezri came across as bubbly and cutesy, maybe too much so, perhaps to make her the opposite of Jadzia, who was very masculine.

 

[Kilana2]

I agree that Ezri came across as bubbly and cutesy, maybe too much so, perhaps to make her the opposite of Jadzia, who was very masculine.

Jadzia was masculine, but also quite attractive. She rarely played femme fatale, though. It made her even more likeable. On the other hand: I'd like to have seen her more often with open hair.

 

[HugeLobes]

I agree that Ezri came across as bubbly and cutesy, maybe too much so, perhaps to make her the opposite of Jadzia, who was very masculine.

Eh, I don't think Jadzia was very masculine. She was kinda very traditionally masculine and very traditionally feminine. Liked talking about guys with Kira. Also like getting the **** kicked out of her with Worf. Dax had been male and female in the past, so I guess she rolled with whatever suited the moment.

I guess she might seem more masculine simply because those traits stood out when played by an actress in a show with many action elements.

Again, this is why I didn't like Ezri. When they got Jadzia right after the first few seasons, she really did feel like someone with all these previous memories and personalities, and I never got that at all from Ezri.