Would Nemesis have been a better movie if it focused solely on the Romulans and cut out the Remans?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by The Overlord, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Coked up?
     
  2. BigDaveX

    BigDaveX Captain Captain

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    Hardy by his own admission had serious problems with substance abuse in the 2000s.. Except that I seem to recall they were the direct result of (or at least severely exacerbated by) Nemesis crashing and burning, rather than his taking drugs having anything to do with how the film turned out.
     
  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If I'd been in Nemesis I might have developed a substance abuse problem too. :p
     
  4. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    I disagree. Just putting Stewart in a dual role would not have saved Nemesis. In fact it probably would have raised the cheesiness of it. The Kirk-Khan dynamic they were trying to force could not be reproduced out of thin air as they attempted. What made TWoK so amazing that the conflict really had an organic history and it truly spanned decades.

    Data's Spock-like sacrifice didn't work for similar reasons. Within the same movie they introduced B4 therefore we knew when Data set about to pay the ultimate price that he would be back if Paramount had green lite a sequel. There was no suspense or emotion to it.
     
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  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed. The problem wasn't Stewart or Hardy. The problem was that there was a clone of Picard at all. The whole movie was spent trying to convince the audience that Shinzon is a duplicate of Picard, when there wasn't a single thing about the both of them that was the same. It would have made more sense that Shinzon was actually Picard's son that he never knew he had from 20 years before.

    And considering that B4 started singing Data's song at the end of the movie, if there had been another film after Nemesis where we see 'Data' all fine and good, I'm sure there would have been very little surprise from the audience.
     
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  6. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Commodore Premium Member

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    Really? He was a guest character in 1 episode, then Kirk completely forgot about him until he turns up and Kirk goes "oh hang on", then fails to realize Kahn is completely different to the Kahn of Space Seed, with a completely different crew.

    It's a shame "Bloodlines" was an episode. Something similar, perhaps even including Bok, could have worked better.
     
  7. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas DISCO QUEEEEEEN Premium Member

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    Only if he hailed from the mirror universe. ;)
     
  8. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    Yes, "really!" Within the fantasy of Star Trek, Kirk may have forgotten but Khan hadn't. It may have been ONE episode however it established a relationship between Khan and Kirk that would go onto take 15 years to resolve.

    Now in the real world we saw that one episode in 1967. We witnessed how it ended. We then actually felt and experienced the years pass until the sequel hit in 1982 with all the principle players brought back. It was totally organic and serendipitous and magical - the quality, power and gravitas of which is impossible recreate within one movie.

    Now TNG had 7 seasons worth of material so why they didn't mine that for a movie confuses me. First Contact did and was able to tap the same vein as TWoK and was rewarded by being celebrated as the best TNG film of the four. It was not an impossible bar to meet. Unfortunately with Nemesis they chose to take short cuts. It showed and the movie suffered for it both creatively and financially (as it should have).
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I liked Nemesis. I liked Hardy as Picard's evil Mini Me and I liked the Vampiric Remans.

    Fight me.
     
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  10. imdbrefugee

    imdbrefugee Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Choose your weapon.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Omega particle. You hit me, and subspace collapses for a hundred light years:p
     
  12. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    No need for if that's what you like then you are indeed already trapped in a hell of your own making.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas DISCO QUEEEEEEN Premium Member

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    I like Nemesis both despite its stupidity and because of it. It's bad - really bad - but sometimes, I watch it anyway. It's not as horrible as TFF or Insurrection, but that doesn't mean much.
     
  14. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I’d just like to know why the Romulans thought it important to clone Picard 20 years before. Because 20 years before, Picard was a nobody.
     
  15. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas DISCO QUEEEEEEN Premium Member

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    The whole thing makes zero sense.
     
  16. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Commodore Premium Member

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    Books attempted to explain it if I recall rightly - DNA was taken from half a dozen starfleet captains at jack and beverlys wedding as a long term plan to replace and infiltrate starfleet
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Intel from the Enterprise-C survivors, of course.
     
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  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it would have been nice if they’d actually mentioned that in the movie, but they didn’t.
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That coupled with an appearance by Sela might have actually made a bit of difference.
     
  20. gakelly

    gakelly Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think a TNG mirror universe movie would have been interesting. But in the end they would have made it suck, just like all the other TNG movies.