Nemesis. The only reason that I didn't walk out of the cinema half way through, was that it was a family night out at the cinema (Husband, kids and self). Husband bought the DVD to complete the set. I tried watching the DVD once. I got 15 mins in - that was it. What a load of rubbish.
Wost TNG film?
- Thread starter Emperor-Tiberius
- Start date
Plecostomus
Commodore
In-SUCK-rection. Honestly I'd rather watch Star Trek 5 and we all KNOW there is NO STAR TREK FIVE. It's that bad.
Aside from rekindling Riker and Troi nothing changed, nothing moved on... the enemy was generic, the dilemma and solution were both textbook, and the action and plot from start to finish were pure formula. SOMEONE should have died, or something major and far-reaching should have happened.
It was several hours of nothing in my opinion.
...come back in an hour and I'll tell you what I really think.
Aside from rekindling Riker and Troi nothing changed, nothing moved on... the enemy was generic, the dilemma and solution were both textbook, and the action and plot from start to finish were pure formula. SOMEONE should have died, or something major and far-reaching should have happened.
It was several hours of nothing in my opinion.
...come back in an hour and I'll tell you what I really think.
I'd agree with some of the sentiment here.
Generations was, in many ways, contrived and poorly written. It had a good thematic core, but the execution was poor and a lot of things felt forced and out of character. Still, it had decent scope. Although they had a famous cinematographer on board, it could have benefitted from a more experienced cinematic director and a veteran movie music composer (but McCarthy's score is underrated imo).
FC had the best synergy of all the TNG films. Despite some of its flaws (which include uneven pacing and some plot inconsistencies), it remains the best TNG movie out there.
Insurrection was truly awful imo. A narrow scope can be done right if there is meaningful character development or strong thematic overtones, but Insurrection had neither. It was flawed in many, many ways, right down to its thematic concept which is neither properly explored or properly balanced in presentation. And yes, it's also boring. In concept it might have stayed true to the "spirit of TNG," but it was lacking in so many other areas (including a uninspired score) that the film falls flat on its face.
I felt Nemesis was a slight rebound from Insurrection, although not enough to be anything more than a mediocre film. It is more contrived than Generations in some respects, but benefits from an expanded scope and a decent score. Unfortunately, the plotting, directing and dialogue are pretty awful.
Insurrection is clearly the worst film to me, although I suppose good arguments can be made for any of them.
Generations was, in many ways, contrived and poorly written. It had a good thematic core, but the execution was poor and a lot of things felt forced and out of character. Still, it had decent scope. Although they had a famous cinematographer on board, it could have benefitted from a more experienced cinematic director and a veteran movie music composer (but McCarthy's score is underrated imo).
FC had the best synergy of all the TNG films. Despite some of its flaws (which include uneven pacing and some plot inconsistencies), it remains the best TNG movie out there.
Insurrection was truly awful imo. A narrow scope can be done right if there is meaningful character development or strong thematic overtones, but Insurrection had neither. It was flawed in many, many ways, right down to its thematic concept which is neither properly explored or properly balanced in presentation. And yes, it's also boring. In concept it might have stayed true to the "spirit of TNG," but it was lacking in so many other areas (including a uninspired score) that the film falls flat on its face.
I felt Nemesis was a slight rebound from Insurrection, although not enough to be anything more than a mediocre film. It is more contrived than Generations in some respects, but benefits from an expanded scope and a decent score. Unfortunately, the plotting, directing and dialogue are pretty awful.
Insurrection is clearly the worst film to me, although I suppose good arguments can be made for any of them.
I completely agree. Generations and TMP are the only movies that I didn't like. The whole point of Gen seemed to be killing Kirk, and then they just cover him with some rocks, why not take his body to Earth and have a proper funeral?
I voted for Nemesis, but I feel that a word needs to be said about Generations which could have been a bigger hit.
First, I like Generations. It's not the best of the TNG movies but it is neither the worst. Malcolm McDowell is a good villain actor and he made Soren credible as an individual who, at one time, was a good person but become addicted to the false reality of the Nexus. Picard ruminating over his career path and the decisions he made in lieu of having a family was also a good touch. I like that part of the story and having seen that, despite Picard's success as an officer of the line, he had his personal regrets.
The movie was going good right up until Kirk appeared and the damn thing went off the rails. Captain Kirk chopping wood and making breakfast for his girlfriend? Picard is telling him that there is danger going on and that he is the captain of the Enterprise and Kirk is too busy caught in his false reality and looking for toast. I know, I know, you can argue that the Nexus had overpowered him but this was Kirk...the guy who could talk computers into blowing themselves up and who didn't like to lose. I found it unacceptable that the Nexus would fool him so easily. It wasn't until he rides a horse and jumps a ditch that he wakes up.
And, finally, Kirks death. It will continue to be a point of discussion for years to come on these boards, but we all know that it sucked. The only acceptable Kirk death, for me, was on the bridge of a starship making a difference. If the creators, Berman included, had intended to destroy the ENT-D then why didn't they put Kirk on the damn ship? I kept wanting to see the last seconds of his life as he stood on the bridge of a starship with sparks flying around and crap blowing up as he knows that, this time, he is going to die. Throw in some moving music, perhaps a montage of past scenes throughout his life, and ka-boom.....a hero's death. Okay, maybe it's a touch on the corny side but it would have beaten Kirk dying on a piece of scaffolding that Soren failed to fix during the last OSHA inspection. Ronald Moore is a good writer, but he flopped badly with this one and it totally blew the emotional impact of the movie.
/endrant
First, I like Generations. It's not the best of the TNG movies but it is neither the worst. Malcolm McDowell is a good villain actor and he made Soren credible as an individual who, at one time, was a good person but become addicted to the false reality of the Nexus. Picard ruminating over his career path and the decisions he made in lieu of having a family was also a good touch. I like that part of the story and having seen that, despite Picard's success as an officer of the line, he had his personal regrets.
The movie was going good right up until Kirk appeared and the damn thing went off the rails. Captain Kirk chopping wood and making breakfast for his girlfriend? Picard is telling him that there is danger going on and that he is the captain of the Enterprise and Kirk is too busy caught in his false reality and looking for toast. I know, I know, you can argue that the Nexus had overpowered him but this was Kirk...the guy who could talk computers into blowing themselves up and who didn't like to lose. I found it unacceptable that the Nexus would fool him so easily. It wasn't until he rides a horse and jumps a ditch that he wakes up.
And, finally, Kirks death. It will continue to be a point of discussion for years to come on these boards, but we all know that it sucked. The only acceptable Kirk death, for me, was on the bridge of a starship making a difference. If the creators, Berman included, had intended to destroy the ENT-D then why didn't they put Kirk on the damn ship? I kept wanting to see the last seconds of his life as he stood on the bridge of a starship with sparks flying around and crap blowing up as he knows that, this time, he is going to die. Throw in some moving music, perhaps a montage of past scenes throughout his life, and ka-boom.....a hero's death. Okay, maybe it's a touch on the corny side but it would have beaten Kirk dying on a piece of scaffolding that Soren failed to fix during the last OSHA inspection. Ronald Moore is a good writer, but he flopped badly with this one and it totally blew the emotional impact of the movie.
/endrant
Phlegmesis.
Insurrection without a doubt. It's the only Trek movie I've seen that I never saw again. After putting out their best effort with First Contact, they produced a stinker here. With all the silliness and the inane desire of TPTB and Stewart to do a "lighter" movie, it set the bar low and failed to exceed it.
I actually like Nemesis, despite it having enough plot holes to drive a truck through and some silly moments.
I actually like Nemesis, despite it having enough plot holes to drive a truck through and some silly moments.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
I hate saying this because I'm not into kicking things when they're down, it just goes against my grain, but I have to say Nemesis. I can at least sit through Generations and Insurrection.
I think franchise fatigue did play a major role in why Nemesis did so badly. The franchise had run its course at that point and squanderd its chance to keep the franchise strong by following up its big hit First Contact with a piece of shit like Insurrection. Blame TPTB and Stewart for insisting on the film being lighter and having a lot of humor, much of which was bad.
Opening five days before The Two Towers didn't help but it was franchise fatigue more than anything. You cannot tell me they didn't do enough promotion for Nemesis. I saw an endless amount of commercials for Nemesis in the weeks leading up to the film. Many of the people who saw Nemesis didn't care for it.
Not helping matters again was the way Berman and Braga approached the film. They said in interviews that the two most popular Trek films revolved around saving Earth and that was why they chose the plot. In typical B and B logic, they completely missed the point on Voyage Home and First Contact. It was the character interaction and the story that made the film so popular. Not saving Earth. Nemesis had some interesting ideas about duality (Picard and his evil clone) but ultimately comes down to "bad man with a big gun."
About Nemesis being "a generation's final journey" they did hit one scene right. The farewell between Picard and Riker was perfect and a satisfying conclusion to that particular relationship.
Opening five days before The Two Towers didn't help but it was franchise fatigue more than anything. You cannot tell me they didn't do enough promotion for Nemesis. I saw an endless amount of commercials for Nemesis in the weeks leading up to the film. Many of the people who saw Nemesis didn't care for it.
Not helping matters again was the way Berman and Braga approached the film. They said in interviews that the two most popular Trek films revolved around saving Earth and that was why they chose the plot. In typical B and B logic, they completely missed the point on Voyage Home and First Contact. It was the character interaction and the story that made the film so popular. Not saving Earth. Nemesis had some interesting ideas about duality (Picard and his evil clone) but ultimately comes down to "bad man with a big gun."
About Nemesis being "a generation's final journey" they did hit one scene right. The farewell between Picard and Riker was perfect and a satisfying conclusion to that particular relationship.
Braga was not involved with Nemesis. As much as I love to dump on the guy, I think it's only fair to dump on him for things he's actually guilty of. 
Similar threads
