Worst command decisions by Captain James T. Kirk

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Gary7, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    It has nothing to do with age. It's just a situational thing. First of all, Kirk, Spock and McCoy have no reason to think that the daughter has any possible way of knowing of her father's past sins. So, there is no motive for her to do it. Had they suspected she knew, then suddenly a strong motive would be there, and then she might be a suspect. That's the biggest reason. But, then there is personal bias. Kirk is at first using her as a tool to get to the father. He has initially biased himself from the start that she is not a suspect. Actually, the thought never enters his mind. Then later he finds her attractive which adds to the bias. Add to that her stunning beauty and who will naturally think of her as a murderer. Maybe a viewer of the episode would suspect her because it is a "who done it" and it is natural to start suspecting everyone, especially the unlikely people. But, you have to place yourself in the shoes of the characters to understand how Kirk got blindsided.
     
  2. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Kirk's weakness was pretty, young blonde females.

    In universe the whole thing should have been solved in ten minutes with a DNA test to see if Karidian was Karidian and security cameras on the ship.
     
  3. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    Kodos was thought to be dead long ago. No one saved the DNA evidence. Even if they did save it, do you think many samples are spread across the inhabited galaxy so that it will be available to Kirk whenever he needs instant fast access to it? (they did try voice recognition)

    Security cameras should of course be in use everywhere on the ship and be recorded for study later, but the show never incorporated that common sense idea from the beginning. Even in The Menagerie, we are told that detailed video records are not normally available. Hence, we are forced to think that Kirk at least had the common sense idea to put special surveillance on Kodos/Karidian. But, because of his bias and "weakness" and inability to imagine that the guy's daughter could have learned the secret, he does not put surveillance on his daughter. He probably already feels guilty about using her, and feels reluctance to push it so far as to video her like a creep.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Whether Karidian was Kodos never seems to have been a relevant question: Kirk didn't think Kodos could be brought to face any sort of consequences no matter what. His only practical option appeared to be personal revenge, or, as the captain himself put it, "If I had gotten everything I wanted, you might not walk out of this room alive".

    But Kirk didn't get the bit that would either push him to murder, or allow him to lawfully gun down a criminal. And that's highly unlikely to have been the Karidian/Kodos connection, because Kirk was already 100% certain about it (so nothing further said or done on that subject could have moved Kirk from restraint to slaying), and because we never learn that Kodos or anybody else in Trek would be an outlaw to be killed at sight (so getting legal proof of Karidian being Kodos should not result in the legal taking of a life within that room). Kirk instead probably was looking for an excuse to do harm, such as Kodos trying to make a run for it, or Kodos really laying it thick with insults and dismissals, and that's what he failed to get. Although even had he gotten it, he probably wouldn't have acted on it anyway.

    So we don't need to sweat the identity question much, when the heroes don't, either. The only one to think that Kodos might come to some sort of personal harm if revealed is his utterly insane daughter - and her own fate reveals what happens to insane serial killers. They will "receive the best of care"! (Perhaps that's what Kirk would have been counting on, too, if he decided to behead Karidian Sr with his bare hands?)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's not quite what was said in "The Menagerie." What Kirk said was:
    In other words, the Talosian illusions looked better and more detailed than what Starfleet video records usually looked like. I'd imagine that the standard ship's records were much more static and shot from a more limited number of angles, for one thing. The Enterprise probably had some visual record of the mission to Talos IV, but it didn't compare with what the Talosians could do. And the difference was striking enough that Kirk could tell the difference after watching for only a few seconds.
     
  6. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    TOS seemed to go low tech in recording events. The only recording we see in TOS is from tricorders which must be turned on and controlled by hand. Wink Of An Eye showed a typical Starfleet recording...
    [​IMG]
    Today, cops wear personal cameras and small drones carry cameras. Extrapolation into the future: nano-cameras on everyone are digitally combined to recreate a 3D view of events; or, a swarm of nano-drones buzzing around a landing party recording everything.
     
  7. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    I assumed there was indeed some sort of drone that came the tricorder. Good call; I like your explanation. But Star Trek didn't show much interest in recordings from CM to ATSC and WOE. And leave us not forget, the tricorders in WOE had the ability to alter dialogue on playback. (!)
     
  8. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    True. Kirk's comment can be interpreted in different ways, and is likely just the writers trying to justify why the video that Kirk is seeing looks like a filmed movie.

    But, more to the point, we know that TOS does not show a lot of use of video monitoring on the ship. We've seen the bridge video in "Court Marshall" and the tricorder video in a few episodes, and probably a few others I'm not thinking of.

    Whether this was a deliberate choice by the creators, or just a missed point, I don't know. Maybe it is easy for "TV people" to imagine a transporter, but a miniature inexpensive video camera might boggle their "1965-minds" because they are used to the $100K studio cameras that weight 100 pounds.

    So, then we can get into "head-cannon" and wonder if the future society rejects constant surveillance because it is an invasion of privacy. Space travel is tough enough without "big-brother" watching your every turn.
     
  9. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Concepts like 'invasion of privacy' might not exist on other non human worlds. Vulcan, a whole planet is said to be a crime free zone either because crime is illogical or Big Surak is watching your every move.
     
  10. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How could McCoy film himself in that scene though?
    JB
     
  11. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He stood in front of a mirror? :biggrin:
     
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  12. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    Yet another prediction from Star Trek, the invention of the selfie video.
     
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  13. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Or maybe McCoy used the tricorder to activate an image recorder that was permanently in the room, control what it recorded, stop recording,and transmit a copy of the recording to his tricorder for playback later. In sort McCoy mighthave used his tricorder as a remote control for a camera that might have been on the wall behind him.
     
  14. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    First off, it might have been another member of the landing party with a tricorder who was filming McCoy. We know that Lemli beamed down because he was standing behind Kirk in one of the opening shots. Perhaps he had a tricorder, or a sixth person (not pictured) beside K, S, Mc, Compton and Lemli beamed down and was filming McCoy.

    Second, this is where I think Henoch was going with the small aerial drone with a camera. I sort of figured that a tricorder could launch such a device to take shots of the landing party.
     
  15. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    But really, it was just the director forgetting to film a second shot without McCoy in the picture, and so they just reused the original shot as if it was a recorded version from McCoy. :)
     
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  16. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's the more realistic reasoning, Steven P!
    JB
     
  17. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Gaz, you deserved everything you got
     
  18. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]
    :p
     
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  19. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    It's not a "real" picture. Much like the Ships sensors, the Tricorder is scanning the entire room with subspace sensors and recording everything. Then when asked for visual playback you can place the "camera" anywhere and render a photo realistic video. This is also how you can get dramatic zooms and pans in security footage such as with the Klingon boarding party in STIII.
     
  20. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If Kodos' DNA was on record, then a "sample" wouldn't be required. It would be more a matter if his (or everyone's?) DNA was on record in the first place.