Wonder Woman: Yay or Nay
- Thread starter Snaploud
- Start date
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
She's fine, but has probably the most mediocre comic book history out of all major DC or Marvel heroes.
The few times my comic book reading / viewing has crossed her path, she's never seemed to be a particularly compelling character and usually poorly written.
I like the theme that's been associated with her on those occasions. That she is an alien outsider who doesn't understand the "world of men" and is frequently prone to war and violence to solve her problems. I do not imagine that to be a core part of her character on a regular basis though.
And then there's just the fact that some of the trappings associated with her character are very dated (lasso, costume, the freakin' invisible jet). While I generally despise comic book character reboots, it seems a mild one could do her a lot of good.
I like the theme that's been associated with her on those occasions. That she is an alien outsider who doesn't understand the "world of men" and is frequently prone to war and violence to solve her problems. I do not imagine that to be a core part of her character on a regular basis though.
And then there's just the fact that some of the trappings associated with her character are very dated (lasso, costume, the freakin' invisible jet). While I generally despise comic book character reboots, it seems a mild one could do her a lot of good.
Wonder Woman wasn't really interesting to me until Xena premiered and captured my attention; then I realized that the post-Crisis Wonder Woman and Xena were very similar characters (something DC has only emphasized after Xena came on the scene).
I like her but all I really know about her is from Justice League/JLU and the Wonder Woman Direct to DVD movie.
I like the character. The character has potential to make a comeback, but someone is going to have to update the concept similiar to what they did with Green Lantern and The Flash back in the 50s.
I would recommend doing something similar to Captain Marvel. Have a 12 year old girl transform into Wonder Woman on command. If you want to get really creative you could set it in Iraq or Afganistan.
It could also be interesting if her origin was kept a mystery.
I would recommend doing something similar to Captain Marvel. Have a 12 year old girl transform into Wonder Woman on command. If you want to get really creative you could set it in Iraq or Afganistan.
It could also be interesting if her origin was kept a mystery.
The core principle that Wonder Woman was originally based upon was Loving Female Authority, a subset of Female Dominance, which is a subset of BDSM. Once you understand that, the early books looks very different, and very daring.
William and Elizabeth Marsden based the character, in part, on their bisexual live-in lover, Olive Byrne, with whom they engaged in various bondage activities, which are the source of Wonder Woman's powers and weaknesses.
William Marsden really believed that a strong, dominant, yet loving woman can make people better. Wonder Woman didn't just beat her villains up, and she didn't just force them to engage in oddly sexual romps through the forest in fursuits, she actually rehabilitated them. She didn't do this be beating them into submission, but by showing them actual decent human kindness, in spite of her superiority to them, in spite of her victory over them, and they responded to it. Wonder Woman was a model for the compassionate law enforcement, and the compassionate rehabilitation of criminals, rather than punishment-based models of criminal justice.
After William Marston died, Wonder Woman lost her core identity. She was no longer a strong, loving, compassionate, self-empowered, dominate woman; she was just a woman with superpowers. Marston's replacements didn't understand the character, and the CCA made them tone down both the female empowerment angle and the BDSM element. The result was a shell of the true Wonder Woman, a giddy preening lovesick puppy.
She's improved over the years, but even with Gail Simone, an actual woman, writing her, she still doesn't have that subversive spark that Marston breathed into her, nor that unified ideal of compassionate rehabilitiation at the hands of a superior yet universally loving female master.
William and Elizabeth Marsden based the character, in part, on their bisexual live-in lover, Olive Byrne, with whom they engaged in various bondage activities, which are the source of Wonder Woman's powers and weaknesses.
William Marsden really believed that a strong, dominant, yet loving woman can make people better. Wonder Woman didn't just beat her villains up, and she didn't just force them to engage in oddly sexual romps through the forest in fursuits, she actually rehabilitated them. She didn't do this be beating them into submission, but by showing them actual decent human kindness, in spite of her superiority to them, in spite of her victory over them, and they responded to it. Wonder Woman was a model for the compassionate law enforcement, and the compassionate rehabilitation of criminals, rather than punishment-based models of criminal justice.
After William Marston died, Wonder Woman lost her core identity. She was no longer a strong, loving, compassionate, self-empowered, dominate woman; she was just a woman with superpowers. Marston's replacements didn't understand the character, and the CCA made them tone down both the female empowerment angle and the BDSM element. The result was a shell of the true Wonder Woman, a giddy preening lovesick puppy.
She's improved over the years, but even with Gail Simone, an actual woman, writing her, she still doesn't have that subversive spark that Marston breathed into her, nor that unified ideal of compassionate rehabilitiation at the hands of a superior yet universally loving female master.
Last edited:
Nay. Robin/Nightwing or The Flash has more cred as a member of The Big Three then Wonder Woman. She gets props because she the first prominent female superhero and is a sex symbol. But no one has ever read her book. It's never really been that great. It's more dated then Captain Marvel. And very few can even name a Wonder Woman villain. Much less a supporting character.
^Nice avatar. Maybe you'd like Wonder Woman better if she had an outfit like Cammy , huh?
As for Wonder Woman villains you can't name, I remember the Cheetah, who had a dual personality, and, in her newer comics that George Perez drew, Ares the God of War was a chief villain, and they even had the classical Hercules as her mother's adversary.
It's true there was a BDSM bent to the character. I think she does need a new costume myself -- I never understood how basically a classical Greek Amazon character would have the U.S. flag's stars emblazoned on her panties! I think a more classic Greek warrior's outfit would suit her better, or something similar to Big Barda's outfit from Mister Miracle.
Or even more fitting might be something similar to the outfit Wonder Girl/Donna Troy wore in her 1980s run in Teen Titans.
BTW, I'm a male, I voted yay, and I wouldn't mind being tied up by Wonder Woman's magic lasso!
Red Ranger
As for Wonder Woman villains you can't name, I remember the Cheetah, who had a dual personality, and, in her newer comics that George Perez drew, Ares the God of War was a chief villain, and they even had the classical Hercules as her mother's adversary.
It's true there was a BDSM bent to the character. I think she does need a new costume myself -- I never understood how basically a classical Greek Amazon character would have the U.S. flag's stars emblazoned on her panties! I think a more classic Greek warrior's outfit would suit her better, or something similar to Big Barda's outfit from Mister Miracle.
Or even more fitting might be something similar to the outfit Wonder Girl/Donna Troy wore in her 1980s run in Teen Titans.
BTW, I'm a male, I voted yay, and I wouldn't mind being tied up by Wonder Woman's magic lasso!
Red Ranger
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
I put "undecided" because it all depends on HOW the character is portrayed. The uberfeminazi WW that crops up all too often (as in the DTDVD) I don't like so much as the more genuinely inexperienced and conflicted WW of the Timm-verse.
This.
I'm a girl who loves Wonder Woman, but despite some of the sexism that still crept into Marston's work (the man might have been a feminist, but he was still living almost eighty years ago), his is still the standard I hold Wonder Woman to. A lot of writers have written some very, very good Wonder Woman over the years, but Marston's Wonder Woman is so unique, and so much fun to read that in my eyes, nobody does it better.
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
That's very interesting background. I'd like to read/see a Wonder Woman more in line with the original intention.
Undecided.
Just saw the Wonder Woman Blu-ray (liked it) and have read the last five issues of Gail Simone's Wonder Woman run which I'm finding just okay.
I have an odd relationship with this character. As part of the Justice League, and, particularly in stories featuring The Big Three, I think WW is a great character which keeps leading me time and time again to read the WW individual stories/books. But as the featured hero, I find with some infrequent, but notable exceptions - JLA League of One being one them - that Wonder Woman doesn't quite work for me. I find her Warrior/Peace Bearer stance a contradictory and clumsy mix. And her occasional musty 60s sounding Women Power! feminist language is cringe worthy. Additionally, the mythology that surrounds her is unrecognizable and odd (was that Zeus I saw in a spandex superhero one piece?), and it just becomes one more thing that makes the character difficult to accept.
I really want to like this character, but no writer - I include Perez's run which I read most of - can get it right. And that likely comes down to a basic flaw of the character who may not work this far removed from suffragette sensibilities.
Just saw the Wonder Woman Blu-ray (liked it) and have read the last five issues of Gail Simone's Wonder Woman run which I'm finding just okay.
I have an odd relationship with this character. As part of the Justice League, and, particularly in stories featuring The Big Three, I think WW is a great character which keeps leading me time and time again to read the WW individual stories/books. But as the featured hero, I find with some infrequent, but notable exceptions - JLA League of One being one them - that Wonder Woman doesn't quite work for me. I find her Warrior/Peace Bearer stance a contradictory and clumsy mix. And her occasional musty 60s sounding Women Power! feminist language is cringe worthy. Additionally, the mythology that surrounds her is unrecognizable and odd (was that Zeus I saw in a spandex superhero one piece?), and it just becomes one more thing that makes the character difficult to accept.
I really want to like this character, but no writer - I include Perez's run which I read most of - can get it right. And that likely comes down to a basic flaw of the character who may not work this far removed from suffragette sensibilities.
So I guess I'm neutral.
I vote yay. Wonder Woman is currently my favorite DC character, especially since Gail Simone took over the writing chores. I like how Gail is attempting to show that she isn't perfect and is attempting to once again establish a personal life when she isn't out there saving the world...
In recent years, Wonder Woman has delved more into the Greek mythology aspect of her background and really focused on her being an Amazon warrior that can hold her own alongside Superman and Batman. But, IMO, that also makes her one of the more difficult characters to write for because it's easy just to focus on her being a superhero and forget or disregard that she's still a woman--no, scratch that--a Human being with all the good and bad that comes with that.
As far as her gallery of villains, I think Wonder Woman suffers from having too many B-list villains and never ever having someone big enough on the scale of Lex Luthor or the Joker. More often than not, Wonder Woman's adversaries were entire armies, mythological figures, or flatout forces of nature who were never a presence outside of her own book...
In recent years, Wonder Woman has delved more into the Greek mythology aspect of her background and really focused on her being an Amazon warrior that can hold her own alongside Superman and Batman. But, IMO, that also makes her one of the more difficult characters to write for because it's easy just to focus on her being a superhero and forget or disregard that she's still a woman--no, scratch that--a Human being with all the good and bad that comes with that.
As far as her gallery of villains, I think Wonder Woman suffers from having too many B-list villains and never ever having someone big enough on the scale of Lex Luthor or the Joker. More often than not, Wonder Woman's adversaries were entire armies, mythological figures, or flatout forces of nature who were never a presence outside of her own book...
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
I think it has more to do with WW being one of those characters who works better as a "teammate" than a lead character.
Martian Manhunter is another good example.
Similar threads
- Locked
