Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Okay, so ...
... what you're saying is, before her "Nebulous Godkiller powers" emerged, he was a threat?!
The point is, she is not bulletproof. As you have been already told, if you have a problem with WW's bulletproof bracelets, you should have a problem with Cap's shield.
But, but Cap is Marvel! I'm obviously being funny but I suspect that's the thinking behind it.
It didn't really feel like a proper fight though. Ares was quite powerful and kept her occupied for a while but she still barely seemed to even break a sweat during that fight, as opposed to Doomsday & Steppenwolf, who both seemed to cause a lot of problems for her even though she actually had back up in those fights, either from Batman & Superman or from the entire Justice League.
Although, my big issue with the Wonder Woman climax is that it's not really a fight so much as it is a lot of CGI noise. Even for a big blockbuster superhero movie like this, that sequence is incredibly loud, unpleasant, & stupid.
As far as comparing Wonder Woman to Captain America, I'm pretty sure that Wonder Woman is a lot stronger. Captain America is stronger & faster than even the most exceptional regular human but he's not fast enough to dodge/block bullets, which Wonder Woman was able to do in Justice League. I don't think that Wonder Woman is quite up to Superman's power levels but I think that she's probably about on par with Thor. And since Cap isn't even in Thor's league, I think we can pretty safely say that Wonder Woman is on a much higher power level than he is.
My thinking as far as power rankings, from highest to lowest:
Superman
Wonder Woman/Thor
Spider-Man
Captain America
Deadpool
Wolverine
Batman, although he's able to pull all sorts of tricks to level the playing field if given enough time.
Harley Quinn. (Seriously, she's a crazy woman with a baseball bat and you're sending her out to fight an ancient goddess? WTF, Amanda Waller?!?)
Critics and audiences were super-split on the film, critics because they didn't want to be seen as misogynistic. That held over to WW's reception the next year.
They already made her Superman tier. She's super-fast, has a sword that can cut through anything, has bracelets that make a shockwave from nothing and she's invulnerable to all energy attacks.
Yeah, they gave her some magic forcefield power that destroys anything thrown at her. But for some reason they didn't show these powers in BvS or JL.
Yeah, and then the plot neutralized his threat because they weren't willing to put her in real danger where she has to think and can't outfight an opponent.
Cap was shown LOSING his final fight with Red Skull, so that's all the proof we need of his vulnerability. WW's vulnerability is never shown once.
Wonder Woman is not as fast as Superman. I mean, Superman is portrayed as being about on the same speed level as the Flash or the X-Men version of Quicksilver. I don't think Wonder Woman is on that level. She definitely has some super speed, enough to block bullets, but that reminds me more of Deadpool's whole swinging-his-swords-so-fast-that-he-can-deflect-a-bajillion-bullets thing from X-Men Origins: Wolverine. She has super fast reflexes but I don't think that would translate to being able to run or fly at great speed for any sustained period of time.
That said, Wonder Woman could have done more to establish her power levels and her vulnerabilities and to make Ares seem like more of a credible threat that she was actually worried about during the final fight. Instead, Diana seemed so untouchable during that final fight that she reminded me more of the Doctor Who episode where Rose absorbed the time vortex energy and briefly became the omnipotent Bad Wolf.
That said, Wonder Woman could have done more to establish her power levels and her vulnerabilities and to make Ares seem like more of a credible threat that she was actually worried about during the final fight. Instead, Diana seemed so untouchable during that final fight that she reminded me more of the Doctor Who episode where Rose absorbed the time vortex energy and briefly became the omnipotent Bad Wolf.
In BvS, she ran so fast in the Doomsday fight she turned into a blur. Of course, super-speed in and of itself is a bad and broken superpower that kills real plots.
They were too cowardly to put her in real danger.
Any film is subject to criticism (e.g., despite my "A" rating of the film, I thought it was remaking Captain America: The First Avenger in several sequences), but I've noticed a certain kind of audience member (usually MCU fans) are pissed for some irrational reason. That reason could be that Wonder Woman broke ground on screen as a major female superhero (and a big hit) when its taking the MCU a decade+ to even have one female-led film. Further, its almost certain it will never compare favorably to WW, and yep, those comparisons will hit Captain Marvel and the Black Widow film like an egg expecting an ocean liner dropped on it from the top of the Sears Tower.
The problem is, other than the superficial element of the gender of the main character, there were really no risks taken by Wonder Woman at all. It's all pretty stock superhero formula and stuff that was generally already handled more comfortably by Marvel Studios in movies like Captain America: The First Avenger, Thor, and even a little bit of Iron Man. If I were to make a prediction, I think Captain Marvel will end up being a much better film than Wonder Woman because it will be Marvel doing it's own Marvel thing rather than DC trying to mimic Marvel.
However, I'm also hoping that, now that they've gotten the first film out of the way and it's been a big hit, I hope that they are willing to take more risks with the film as a whole when they make Wonder Woman 2. Also, I do hope that they bring back Chris Pine for the new one as a different character and not even really explain it. Just have Diana take a dumbfounded look at him and say, "If you live long enough, you start to see the same faces over and over again." And if they bring him back, can they bring back Etta Candy too? She was my favorite part.
However, I'm also hoping that, now that they've gotten the first film out of the way and it's been a big hit, I hope that they are willing to take more risks with the film as a whole when they make Wonder Woman 2. Also, I do hope that they bring back Chris Pine for the new one as a different character and not even really explain it. Just have Diana take a dumbfounded look at him and say, "If you live long enough, you start to see the same faces over and over again." And if they bring him back, can they bring back Etta Candy too? She was my favorite part.
You make it sound like this was by choice. They wanted to make female movies before WW was announced, but Ike Perlmutter wouldn't let them.
Hang on, if Ares was a real threat there for a while, how was Diana not in real danger? Seems to me, you had to concede the point and now try to shift the goal post.
So what, Diana should have lost to Ares?
Because instead of finding some way of out thinking him or using the existing powers she had the rest of the movie, they had to resort to the old cliche of "Hero discovers their inner strength" and she wins through power alone instead of anything else. At least Thor Ragnarok had the decency to defy that cliche and have Thor think of another way of stopping Hela.
She should've gotten hurt by the German soldiers at some point, to show she could be hurt and her powers wouldn't always be enough.
As for Ares, that was a real waste of something cool like him having the Other Gods be captives instead of dead.
My thoughts exactly. But it would have totally worked for me if it turned out that Harley was really only on the team to draw out Joker and Waller was trying to 'kill two birds with one stone'.
That would have made too much sense for that movie.
The word "seriously" doesn't really fit with that movie.
U-uh, you're shifting the goal posts. All you were on about before was a real threat to put her in real danger. And if Ares was a real threat, which you already conceded, then she was in real danger. Because that's what the opponent being a real threat is all about.
As much as you bring this up, I can't help the feeling the reasons you give for wanting to see Wonder Woman get hurt by German soldiers are not your real reasons.
He WAS a threat...until they pulled her omnipotence out of cliche handbook and had her easily defeat him. Instead of something intelligent. Then he was no longer any kind of threat.
Take away her omnipotent powers, have her find a way to defeat Ares without relying on power, and she's in real danger.
Look at how Thor Ragnarok handled a similar situation, they had Thor's "Hidden Power" fail so he had to think his way out.
Even Superman faced off against people who could really hurt him in MOS and BvS. WW has yet to be in any real danger.
Yes, I think we all get that you liked how Thor Ragnarok handled a similar situation. But the point remains, she only was able to beat Ares once she turned to her inner power (and you're free to see this as a deus ex machina), but the fact remains, up until that point, she was in real danger.
If you just wanted "real danger", a formidable nemesis suffices, it would seem. But no, you keep bringing up Wonder Woman being shot or generally hurt by soldiers.
By the way, Superman is never in any real danger when soldiers shoot at him, because he's bulletproof. Something the movies establish by having people shoot at him and the bullets bouncing off of his chest (or, on that one occasion, his eye). Bullets don't bounce off of Wonder Woman's chest, so what would make anybody think she was bulletproof?!
That's a hell of an accusation...
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