Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

[Forbin]

Jumping into the thread after finally having seen it.
Enjoyed the hell out of it. Gorgeous art direction, brilliant recreation of the period in terms of look and feel.
Gal was glorious, of course.
Nitpick from me: Trevor escapes in a Fokker E.III Eindecker. The film is set in 1918, years after the E.IIIs were obsoleted and scrapped. The Fokker DVII was the primary German fighter at the time, with, probably a few good ol' Red Barion Dr.1 triplanes and Albatross DVs left.
Nitpick from my wife, the historical costuming maven: During one of the refugee scenes, she saw a woman carrying a baby that was wearing a onesie. :/
And the overblown CGI-fest fight with Ares was the low point of an otherwise wonderful film.

 

[Gaith]

Wonder Woman lived on an island of nothing but women. Her world was nothing but women. The idea she never once had a relationship with someone by her age is a stretch.

There's a lot of stuff in this mediocre script that's a stretch. The notion that someone could speak dozens of languages from around the world, nearly all of them from cultures which feature marriage in some form or other, but still have no idea what marriage, is absurd. The notion that a trained warrior wouldn't know what a "front" is is laughable. The idea that a 1910s guy would describe getting married as going to a judge rather than a priest/church is improbable. The prospect of any spy, much less an American one, regularly conferring with top-level British civilian and military war planners is deeply and enormously silly. The idea of anyone who isn't a total moron suggesting the only two people on a small sailboat sleep at the same time, much less with the boat's sail unfurled, is comical. And I've pointed out the idiocy of their trip up the Thames long upthread.

So, yeah, it's reasonable to theorize Diana had some relations with women on the island. But, given how much nonsense the script did throw at us, her not having done so would hardly be the most ridiculous aspect of the text if they had included a line to that effect.

Jumping on this after a single movie from each is definitely making some presumptions before anything has been definitively said though with both movies there was a lot more implied than heterosexual if you actually looked for it.

Eh, this smells like wishful fan apologism to me. Nothing in the movie suggested she doesn't feel attraction to women, but the reverse is also true. All the subtle, indirect hints of same-sex attraction one can infer are just that. It's too early to call the movie character definitively straight, but it's also too early to call her bi.

 

[Dream]

And the overblown CGI-fest fight with Ares was the low point of an otherwise wonderful film.

Agreed. Boring CGI fest fight finales are a big problem with all superhero movies nowadays. It's like studios don't think audiences will be satisfied unless there is a video game fight with tons of shit blowing up to end a movie with.

The dumb sky beams and disposable CGI armies are pretty common too from both DC and Marvel.

I prefer the low key finales where the fate of the world isn't at stake like with the Logan movie.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Lynda Carter has a message for James Cameron.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...iticism/ar-AAsACgA?li=AA2qN5v&ocid=spartanntp

 

[Dream]

Great interview with Gal about her acting career and getting the Wonder Woman role

Gal Gadot on Becoming Wonder Woman, the Biggest Action Hero of the Year

Click the link for full article

When her unexpected reign as Miss Israel ended, she was assigned to be a combat trainer in the IDF, reporting daily at 5 a.m. to put soldiers through a sort of boot camp. While still serving, she met real-estate developer Yaron Versano at "this party in the desert that was all about chakras, blah, blah, blah," then married him, went to law school ("Because I'm so deep, and I loved Ally McBeal"), and thought she was done with a career path that relied on her looks, when a casting director asked her to audition to be a Bond girl. "I told my agent, 'What are you talking about? I'm in school. I'm not an actress. I'm not gonna go.' And he was like, 'Just show respect and go.' " That audition eventually led to her role in The Fast and the Furious, which led to Wonder Woman, though in her first audition for the film, she wasn't even told what part she was trying to get. "Zack [Snyder] called me and was like, 'So do you know what you're testing for?' I said, 'No.' He said, 'Well, I'm not sure if you have her in Israel, but did you hear about Wonder Woman?' "

Turns out they did have her in Israel, and Gadot immediately realized the opportunity she was being handed, both as an actor and as a feminist. "I've had my moments where I've felt like men were misbehaving – nothing sexual, but inappropriate in a sexist way. Dismissive. Life wasn't always rosy and peachy for me as a woman in the world." Even after she landed the role, she was worried about being thought weak, so she waited to tell her Justice League co-stars that she was pregnant. "I didn't want attention," she says. "The default should be that women get the job done, but there's a long way to go and a lot of reprogramming that needs to be done to both genders."

Nor was it immaterial that Wonder Woman – who, Gadot says, "stands for love and hope and acceptance and fighting evil" – debuted in 1941, the year America entered World War II. While Gadot's father is a sixth-generation Israeli, her mother's mother escaped Europe just before the war. Her mother's father, who was 13 when the Nazis came to his native Czechoslovakia, was not so lucky. His father died in the army. The rest of his family was sent to Auschwitz, where his mother and brother died in the gas chambers. After the war, he made his way to Israel alone. "His entire family was murdered – it's unthinkable," says Gadot. "He affected me a lot. After all the horrors he'd seen, he was like this damaged bird, but he was always hopeful and positive and full of love. If I was raised in a place where these values were not so strong, things would be different. But it was very easy for me to relate to everything that Wonder Woman stands for."

 

[Gaith]

Not sure what movie everyone else saw, but I thought it was made fairly clear that she was either bisexual, or pansexual. Or did I misinterpret the subtext of that whole "men are unnecessary for pleasure" scene?

Just because she acknowledges that some women, or even Themiscyran women generally, can have plenty of pleasure without men doesn't mean that she herself is one of them. (To say nothing of self-pleasure.) Plus, that line is delivered in a scene and manner which can easily be read as her playfully trying to make Steve jealous of any prior lovers she may have had, specifically because of her attraction to him. So, not sure about everyone else, but I think it's "fairly clear" you saw the movie you wanted to see in that line.

Last weekend's SNL definitely noted the movie's careful avoidance of anything more than vague/ambiguous hints at non-heterosexuality:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

​

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

There's a lot of stuff in this mediocre script that's a stretch. The notion that someone could speak dozens of languages from around the world, nearly all of them from cultures which feature marriage in some form or other, but still have no idea what marriage, is absurd.

Agreed. Even if her people did not practice marriage, they would still be aware of it, as they were not born in tital isolation from the cultures of the world--many having some form of marriage.

The idea that a 1910s guy would describe getting married as going to a judge rather than a priest/church is improbable.

I too pointed that out, not long after the film's release. That was clearly the producers/WB trying to appease the secular faction of the movie going audience, when marriage with religious involvement is known/practiced in one form or another on every continent. I believe it was pure, left-leaning BS to have a man from the era presented even offer civil marriage as his first (and only) explanation of the marriage process. That's as out of place and assbrained dialogue as having one of the Wright brothers discuss flight by referencing the speed of an F-15.

All the subtle, indirect hints of same-sex attraction one can infer are just that. It's too early to call the movie character definitively straight, but it's also too early to call her bi.

Some people are indeed wishing their personal interests on the character. The only sexual relation Diana has is with a man, and at no time does she hint or imply she goes both ways, yet that is swatted away in favor of an idea that does not exist in this first WW film.

Just because she acknowledges that some women, or even Themiscyran women generally, can have plenty of pleasure without men doesn't mean that she herself is one of them. (To say nothing of self-pleasure.)

True.

 

[Reverend]

Just because she acknowledges that some women, or even Themiscyran women generally, can have plenty of pleasure without men doesn't mean that she herself is one of them. (To say nothing of self-pleasure.) Plus, that line is delivered in a scene and manner which can easily be read as her playfully trying to make Steve jealous of any prior lovers she may have had, specifically because of her attraction to him. So, not sure about everyone else, but I think it's "fairly clear" you saw the movie you wanted to see in that line.

You're suggesting a island full of ageless, enlightened women have spent thousands of years in isolation with naught but each other for company and done nothing sexually save write multi-volume books on the subject and have the odd wank, and *I'm* the one seeing what they want to see? OK mate, if you say so!

 

[JD]

Agreed. Even if her people did not practice marriage, they would still be aware of it, as they were not born in tital isolation from the cultures of the world--many having some form of marriage.



I too pointed that out, not long after the film's release. That was clearly the producers/WB trying to appease the secular faction of the movie going audience, when marriage with religious involvement is known/practiced in one form or another on every continent. I believe it was pure, left-leaning BS to have a man from the era presented even offer civil marriage as his first (and only) explanation of the marriage process. That's as out of place and assbrained dialogue as having one of the Wright brothers discuss flight by referencing the speed of an F-15.



Some people are indeed wishing their personal interests on the character. The only sexual relation Diana has is with a man, and at no time does she hint or imply she goes both ways, yet that is swatted away in favor of an idea that does not exist in this first WW film.



True.

It seems to be taking you a lot more effort to prove that it doesn't say that Diana and the other Amazons are gay/bi, than it does to prove that it does.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It seems to be taking you a lot more effort to prove that it doesn't say that Diana and the other Amazons are gay/bi, than it does to prove that it does.

Nonsense. The film does not imply or suggest the Amazons--Diana in particular--are gay/bi. Just the opposite, some are going overboard trying to wish that into the film for whatever reason.

 

[dahj]

Women have sex with each other. Get over it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

An all-woman island, isolated for thousands of years?

Yeah, nothing gay ever happens there.

 

[Noname Given]

An all-woman island, isolated for thousands of years?

Yeah, nothing gay ever happens there.

^^^
And that's the way Ares likes it...

 

[Gaith]

You're suggesting a island full of ageless, enlightened women...

Are you aware that we're talking about a movie? As in, a piece of fiction filmmaking? Because you seem to be having trouble with the basic ideas at hand. No, I have not and am not suggesting that in this hypothetical society, none of the women have sexual relations with each other. I am simply observing that 1) there is no credible evidence from the "text" of the film that Diana herself has either messed around with any of said women, or 2) that, whether or not she has done so, she is bi. (These are separate questions, in case you hadn't caught on.)

*I'm* the one seeing what they want to see?

Yes, you are. The movie itself does not change based on your personal fanon.

Women have sex with each other. Get over it.

I assume this post was directed at WB/Patty Jenkins, since they're the ones who put out such a heteronormative movie. I assure you that had I made it, there would be no doubt whatsoever that Diana is bi.

 

[Reverend]

Don't know what you're arguing with me for mate, I conceded the point!
Also: -
PSA: This character is just *really good friends* with Antiope. Totally platonic. Nothing to read into there!

Yes, you are. The movie itself does not change based on your personal fanon.

...he said with adorably fervent conviction and not one whit of self awareness...

 

[Gov Kodos]

Are you aware that we're talking about a movie? As in, a piece of fiction filmmaking? Because you seem to be having trouble with the basic ideas at hand. No, I have not and am not suggesting that in this hypothetical society, none of the women have sexual relations with each other. I am simply observing that 1) there is no credible evidence from the "text" of the film that Diana herself has either messed around with any of said women, or 2) that, whether or not she has done so, she is bi. (These are separate questions, in case you hadn't caught on.)

All those books Diana read on females getting it on and not needing men wasn't a hint?

Yes, you are. The movie itself does not change based on your personal fanon.

It doesn't change on your whims or your fanon, either.

 

[dahj]

I assume this post was directed at...

It was directed at guys in this thread who are proclaiming the Amazons straight unless they provide "evidence" to the contrary(presumably nothing less than two women scissoring uninterrupted for 5 minutes would do), and are completely oblivious of how condescending that sounds...

 

[JanewayRulz!]

PSA: This character is just *really good friends* with Antiope. Totally platonic. Nothing to read into there! ...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Masturbation is same-sex sex.

Do the Amazon's not masturbate?

Comics outed Diana in the 80s.

Venus however is a planet with only one gender, and they are all straight.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Gov Kodos]

Masturbation is same-sex sex.

Do the Amazon's not masturbate?

Comics outed Diana in the 80s.

Venus however is a planet with only one gender, and they are all straight.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

But, how do you feel about the Queen?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies