Spoilers Willow sequel series on Disney+

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Booji, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    I'm a huge fan of The Lord of the Rings (extended editions and all!) but I have a lot of issues with The Hobbit trilogy, preferring a fan edit that reduces it to just the original novel material (and it largely flows smoothly!). I'm one of the few people who had no issues with the final season of Game of Thrones, including the controversial series finale. But while I enjoyed The Rings of Power, maybe more than most, it didn't light me on fire like Willow has. And I have a LOT of issues with House of the Dragon.
     
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  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Punk Premium Member

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    Of the current crop of High Fantasy shows, I think I like Willow the most.
     
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  3. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    Of the 'couple main ones in the past year or two it's the only one where I don't know where the story is going.

    The Witcher is a book/game adaption and while altered having played the games I came in and know a lot about the characters already and potentially what their fates are.

    House of Dragons is a prequel and the fates of characters may be altered slightly, but its generally already known if you had looked or read closely and recognize names from the books.

    Rings Of Power may alter some things, but pretty much anyone with a minimal understanding of LOTR knows the backstory even if they may try to keep hidden certain characters identities (mainly because you know what those characters will eventually do)

    Wheel Of Time is an adaption from the books and while again you may have some alterations you have a fairly good idea of where it's going, what characters are significant, what there arcs are, etc...

    This is the only one where I have zero idea of the future plans or what is in store for any character in the show which adds interest and more of a want for the story to 'continue' now that it is being told than the others (at least to me anyway)
     
  4. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Damn, you've spoiled my record for someone I've always agreed with on the internet.

    No worries. I love you man. Still with you 99.999% of the time. ;)

    Totally agree. I <3 WoT for bringing my imagination to the screen, but yeah. I know what's coming.

    Willow is something borrowed, something new, and something characters I've fallen in love with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't watch Witcher, Rings, House, or Wheel. So Willow is an easy win for my fave current fantasy show. :)

    I have problems with it. But I've enjoyed it enough that I am trying to actively squash those problems.
     
  6. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think it's mentioned there but the reason the other Brownie didn't make an appearance was Covid related.
     
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  7. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hrmm. I hate to say it but my overall impression is one of general apathy.
    As I said before I really like the cast and how they're playing their respective characters . . . but the story and the world just isn't gripping me, and those are two elements that are VITAL for any fantasy series to nail down. It's honestly some of the most inept and lazy world building I've seen in a while. The movie knew enough to keep things broad and vague; couching it all in the language more of fairytale and myth than a modern fantasy story. A show needs to do more to nail down the history, geography, the magic system, and the central conflict dynamics of the world out of sheer necessity because it has to spend way more time navigating it.

    I'm not sure where the show intends to go next, but I find I can't quite manage to care overmuch if it gets a 'Volume II' to find out. I mean I guess I want it in an abstract sense because I want them to iron out the problems and deliver a better version of this whole thing, but if that doesn't happen I can't say I'll be all that disappointed.

    Taken as a whole it's all rather loose and haphazard. The needle drops jar me out of it every single time. I get trying for a modern rebellious tone, but I don't think this music was the way. I mean if you going in that direction, at least make more of an effort and do the 'Westworld' thing of covering the modern songs in an antiquated style.

    Indeed the songs as they stand only really serve to compound a larger problem with the show's overall tone; it's far too self-aware by half!. It knows it's a show and happily flaunts it awareness of the tropes, so that when it tries to act serious and show some gravitas it just doesn't ring true. I felt zero peril or tension in that last fight. Even when they seemingly killed off a main character, I just couldn't bring myself to care. It just felt random and disconnected. Was that a fake-out, or a lazy way to resolve the half-hearted love triangle? In the moment, either seemed equally likely, and at no point did it feel like a real loss to me.
    Are present day skyscrapers made of stone? Because those were made of stone, and also nowhere near the size of actual sky scrapers.
    I think they were just meant to be really big tombs and crypts. It is a city of the undead after all, so of course it would have to scream "necropolis".
    To me, that feels like somewhat of a low bar to clear. The quality and consistency of the other major fantasy shows vary quite wildly, which also seems to be the case with Willow, unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Of the other fantasy shows discussed above, the only one on a service I subscribe to is The Witcher. I gave it a try last week, but I just couldn't get into it and gave up halfway through episode 2. It's the first time I haven't thought Henry Cavill was good in a role, because of the character's cold, grunting monotone delivery.
     
  9. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Cavill agrees with you.
     
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  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Punk Premium Member

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    I enjoyed RoP, HoD and the Witcher. WoT is a faded memory, I struggle to recall what happened. Willow was a refreshing change of pace with its some what irreverent approach,
     
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  11. ashleytinger

    ashleytinger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If you like the irreverent Willow approach, might I humbly suggest Legend of Vox Machina? lol
     
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  12. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I felt RoP started promising, but just got dumber and dumber as the season went on. HotD was surprisingly good (I was honesty braced for a trainwreck on par with the end of GoT), but at the same time the breakneck pace of years made it tough to invest in characters that with one or two exceptions, all seemed to get recast every other episode, so I'm left somewhat ambivalent. WoT was just all over the place. Some bits worked, some didn't. Mostly it felt like it was punching above it's weight.

    As for Willow; like I said, I liked the characters and the actors including the irreverent bordering on Whedonesque dialogue, but the world building was shabby, the pacing was a mess and the needle drops just didn't work for me.
    I think the main thing Willow lacked was a consistent "straight man" (comedically speaking.) When everyone is being the "funny man" it strips away any weight and gravitas. It doesn't have to be that stark of course with such a respectably sized ensemble, but there should at least be a consistent gradient of personalities.
    In the movie you had Rool and Franjean as the out and out comic relief; every thing they say and do is a punchline by design. Willow as the earnest self-serious character, the Bilbo Baggins-esque hero where the comedy comes from just how far in over his head and out of his element he is, but he's still the emotional core of the story. Madmartigan of course as the roguish rascal with a heart of gold who's there to play off both Willow's self seriousness and the two Brownies' cajoling. I guess you could include Raziel in that dynamic too as for her the joke is that she's suppose to be the wise mentor figure, but has been transformed into an animal, and bounces between various forms for most of the second act. So in a sense the comedy there is from the loss of dignity.
    (BTW; Patricia Hayes doesn't get nearly enough credit for pulling off this role, which is 70% vocal only, and has her having to deliver serious dramatic dialogue while affecting the high pitched squeaks of a possum, the cawing of a crow, and the bleating of a goat, respectively.)

    The show on the other hand got into this weird state were every main character is constantly oscillating between funny and serious, not in accordance to a consistent characterization or group dynamic, but due to the demands of the plot, which is not great storytelling. Comedy and drama is a delicate balancing act that the movie nailed, but the show sadly missed the mark on.

    Well if we're also including animation, then I'd also suggest 'Dragon Age: Absolution', which was way better than it had any business being!
     
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  13. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Did Graydon even crack a joke?
    Sorsha and Jade weren't particularly funny ever...
     
  14. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Who said comedy was limited to just joke cracking?
    Sorsha was barely in the show. And Jade's comedy was mostly about social awkwardness and embarrassment. That it failed to actually be funny is rather besides the point.
     
  15. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Doesn't sound like any definition of everyone being any definition of your "funny man" to me then.
     
  16. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    This. The show has its moments, but it's meh
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
  17. Vasquez Rocks

    Vasquez Rocks Commodore Commodore

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    I hope there is a second season. I see potential but this season was disappointing. Like I said in my previous post Willow needs to be more front and center. The other characters are fine but a little too much focus was on them while Airk got very little screen time. Elora fared the best and she happened to be my favorite of the younger cast. I wish they didn't kill off Willow's Nelwyn buddy. We need more Nelwyns like Mims. She needs to be added to the main cast if there is a second season.

    The modern music grew on me during the second half of the season or maybe they just picked better songs that fit the scenes more. Hopefully the writers will be given more free reign if the show continues. The suits need to take a step back. I'm convinced that's why the show was all over the place in terms of writing.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Agreed. I saw an interview where Jonathan Kasdan said he wanted to use Mims more, IIRC, so that's encouraging.
     
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  19. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    speaking of Mims... di we actually find out what happened to them? I think last we saw them they were in a little bit of a pickle?
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I thought that was a false vision Willow was being sent to dishearten him, or something.