Spoilers Willow sequel series on Disney+

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Booji, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I just looked up the lyrics to see if there was anything relevant, and wow, those are some pretty mean-spirited lyrics, with sexism, a whole verse devoted to a homophobic slur, and a line that sounds pretty racist too. Apparently that was because the song was being sung from the perspective of a prejudiced character that the lyrics were satirizing, much like Randy Newman's "Short People," so it's not like the band itself was endorsing those attitudes. Still, I'd imagine they cleaned up the lyrics for the Willow version.

    So maybe that's the relevance? That the singer is impersonating a different character, much like the Wyrm is pretending to be Elora to lure Graydon? Although it's kind of the inverse of that, since the character with the more objectionable beliefs is the one being impersonated in the song.

    Or maybe it's not about the lyrics. Maybe it's just saying that Graydon is in dire straits.
     
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  2. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    I don't think that much thought went into it but I do like that interpretation.
     
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Punk Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    On the bus
    I was more intrigued by the cover of Springsteen’s “I’m On Fire”.
     
  4. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    For Willow, they cut out the homophobic verse entirely, and in fact on the radio, there are portions now heavily edited out. Which in this case, I don't mind that edit one bit, it would be rough to hear the original version now, regardless of context or intention.
     
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  5. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    The biggest complaints seem to have been the music, the outfits, and the dialogue. Though that did seem to stifle complaints about wokeness that would've probably otherwise been at the forefront. For better or worse, it was meant to be a modern take and not trying to be an exact riff on the movie.

    https://twitter.com/JonKasdan/status/1611185857742123010
    Terry @maerj2000 Jan 5
    I was curious... why did you choose to use the pop songs in this series?

    Jon Kasdan @JonKasdan Jan 5
    We thought it might be fun. A spunky, somewhat startling way to distinguish our irreverent, gleefully anachronistic little romp from heftier, more serious-minded fantasies currently streaming. And an impulse that aligned nicely with rebellious rockin' spirit of our shabby heroes

    Looking back, I think there were some moments that could've been tightened up. Not really sure what the cabin ladies in denim was about, the brownies were a fun callback but seemed really tacked on and could maybe have been used better, did Jade's sister need to be part of the bone reavers, and so on. Airk seemed forgotten about until the end, his plight could've been more compelling if we had peeked him on him throughout. Also, there were a couple of character deaths early on that didn't have the buildup needed to earn the emotions/stakes that could've been reaped.

    I would like to do a rewatch knowing the big picture now but it seemed to me the start was shaky and got better as it went along. I think initially Willow/Warwick felt disconnected from the rest of the party though maybe that was meant to be but I thought after a while it felt less like characters from two different shows. I think a Netflix style season dump might work better than the weekly drop for getting over that hump.

    I ended up liking Willow/Warwick's wry comments. Like his joke about the poached eggs in the last episode or killing some blokes in this one. "I'm in your head, dummy"
     
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  6. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    It occurred to me on second viewing that the lyrics could be allegorical to the story this episode. The "wedding" etc were like fantasy scenes in an MTV music video. The "money for nothing" were the rewards offered to Elora and Kit, basically nothing but illusion. It's a bit of a stretch but it did make a little sense.
     
  7. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    Lyrics be damned, I do love this scene with that music. Reminds me a bit of Phoebe Cates/Moving in Stereo from Fast Times.
     
    M'rk son of Mogh likes this.
  8. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    And the 2 headed dragon!!

    Love that scene so much. Absolutely perfect.
     
    Ar-Pharazon and The Nth Doctor like this.
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    It was about showing the importance of Elora Danan to the people of the world, albeit in microcosm. It was the moment Elora had it driven home to her that the people invested their hopes in her, that they would stand behind her, that they would fight and die for her. It made her realize her responsibility, what it meant that she was Elora Danan.


    Yeah, they were pretty gratuitous. I'd expected the brownies to be more important to the story than a single-episode cameo, since they were important to the movie.


    That was hugely coincidental, as was most everything about that episode. Revealing that Jade is the daughter of General Kael, the archenemy of her girlfriend-to-be's father, should've been a bigger deal than it was. Maybe it's setup for future seasons, but it still got short shrift here.


    In principle, yeah, but I'd be more inclined to agree if the actor had been more compelling. I guess he does look kind of like a young Val Kilmer, but he's kind of bland.
     
  10. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spatial anomaly
    What a fantastic finale! I wasn't sure if everything would work in the final episode, but I loved how everything came together in the end, for better or worse.

    I was genuinely shocked when Graydon was killed (or so it would seem). I've been a fan of Tony Revolori since The Grand Budapest Hotel so I've greatly enjoying Graydon's story arc play out and I didn't want to lose him so soon. But at the same time, I do wonder if it was smart for the show to walk back such a devastating loss, one that felt earned and felt real. I also wonder if this is actually Graydon or some corrupted aspect of his soul or something similar? And whether if it's actually him, can he truly be revived and uncorrupted by the end? I had a lot of thoughts running through my during those final moments.

    That's exactly what I thought when I saw those books. Fingers crossed!
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Funny, I had the opposite reaction. Graydon's apparent death was so abrupt, random, and out of the blue that my first thought was that it had to be another illusion, that surely it wouldn't stick. It didn't feel earned to me at all, because it would've abruptly cut off a number of unresolved story threads, e.g. Graydon's past possession, his blossoming as a wizard, and the tentative romantic stirrings between him and Elora.
     
  12. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    Apparently the IRL reason for him shaving his facial hair was to accommodate his working on Wes Anderson's next one. When the scene first played out I was thinking "I hope this isn't how they are going to resolve the love triangle problem". Also, I felt that the characters weren't as moved by his loss as you'd think, they'd be happy to get Airk back and all but there didn't seem to be much reflection over it.
     
  13. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spatial anomaly
    I figured that must've been the case. Didn't think of Wes Anderson specifically, but that makes sense and I knew Revolori is going to be in the next film.

    I had the same thought but then quickly remembered Elora completely rejected Airk already and figured she wouldn't go back to him after Graydon died.

    I dunno, I think Elora felt that loss pretty hard and she's the one expected to express that sorrow so openly.
     
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  14. Rich Watson

    Rich Watson Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2022
    While I liked the series overall and had no issues with the supposedly anachronistic dialogue etc.* did it feel to anyone else that this started out as 10-12 episodes but then they had to cut it down to 8? All the big scenes are there but the connecting stuff that would get you from one to the next seemed to be missing.

    *Given that the Immemorial City seems to have present day skyscrapers in it, I'm wondering if this is one those fantasy worlds that's actually supposed to be Earth in the far future.
     
    FreezeC77 and LaxScrutiny like this.
  15. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spatial anomaly
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  16. Rich Watson

    Rich Watson Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2022
    Hmm, judging by the interview he doesn't seem super positive about the series having a future.
     
    FreezeC77 likes this.
  17. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    we also spoke about the unfortunate truth that Willow didn’t blow the doors off culture like maybe some expected

    Who exactly was expecting that? It's not like the movie was some kind of massive success. US/Canada was like $57m. I don't really think there's been this huge clamor about what happened to the characters to imagine that making a tv show 35 years later would be a massive hit.
     
    LaxScrutiny and The Nth Doctor like this.
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I'm surprised that brownie effects haven't gotten easier by now. Certainly the matchmoving should be much, much easier with modern computer effects; that sort of thing that used to require meticulous frame-by-frame hand alignment on an animation stand is now a routine computer effect. But I guess the part that's still the same is the need to build big bluescreen (or greenscreen) stages and treadmills and such so the brownie performers can do the necessary running around and jumping on and off of things and so forth, which is still probably just as complicated. I hadn't thought about how much they simplified it in the show by having the brownies just standing on a balcony so that they had little direct physical interaction with the characters and environment.

    And now we know why they used "Money for Nothing" -- to symbolize the temptation for Graydon of being offered an easy path to victory/power.
     
  19. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spatial anomaly
    That said, I'm much more interested in seeing season two of this show than season two of House of the Dragon or even The Rings of Power.
     
  20. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Thanks, I enjoyed that.
    TBH I didn't enjoy The Lord of the Rings movies half as much as the Hobbit trilogy. I enjoyed Game of Thrones, but often enough I watched just knowing I had to keep up, and then there would a cool twist that kept me going. I have had no desire to get into House of the Dragon.

    I'll happily watch the cast of Willow in as many seasons as Ron Howard can talk Disney into. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
    Turtletrekker and The Nth Doctor like this.