I thought the movie had a bit more nuance than that, sure it was somewhat about Shatner flattering himself but around the same scene it also had McCoy annoyed, rightly, that Kirk was being reckless and Kirk acknowledging that death was possible, that he even knew it could happen in some way, although he insisted it couldn't happen with Spock and McCoy around.
William Shatner Apologizes For Star Trek V
- Thread starter Philip Guyott
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I thought the movie had a bit more nuance than that, sure it was somewhat about Shatner flattering himself but around the same scene it also had McCoy annoyed, rightly, that Kirk was being reckless and Kirk acknowledging that death was possible, that he even knew it could happen in some way, although he insisted it couldn't happen with Spock and McCoy around.
Kirk is roughly the same age as Picard was in the 2nd season so there's conceivably alot of bounce in them. What makes the crew look old is basically Kelley and Doohan. That's not a complaint though. There's alot of exquisite scenes in that film and it's the most TOSy of any of the TOS films.
As for Sybok getting his haircut, well, Kirk was chompin' at the bit to met 'god' given that he's "a busy man" apparently. But Sybok felt he needed a trim from Mr. Mott's granddad and so everyone is loitering outside of the corridor beseeching him to "hurry up!" Seems a bit incongruent to me.
As for Sybok getting his haircut, well, Kirk was chompin' at the bit to met 'god' given that he's "a busy man" apparently. But Sybok felt he needed a trim from Mr. Mott's granddad and so everyone is loitering outside of the corridor beseeching him to "hurry up!" Seems a bit incongruent to me.
They should have kept a closer eye on their prisoner.
On those rare occasions when I put this film on, I always get a chuckle out of Kirk's line, ".... when they put me out to pasture, I hope I fare better than Kord." Kirk ... Jim ... you've already been put out to pasture. You're already there ... and the grazing isn't good!
It didn't matter what STAR TREK 5 was about. TOS main cast was beyond old and the movies had run their course. Had TVH not done so well, The Final Frontier would've never done the initial business it did get. And had TFF been any good, Paramount probably would've been able to close up shoppe on TOS, right there, and let TNG have some breathing room. What's always gotten me is how the campfire sequence is universally praised, when it's actually shite. It's just marginally better than the film its embedded in. Take it out of TFF and put it in at the start of TUC, lets say, and fans would've complained about how goofy it was.
It didn't matter what STAR TREK 5 was about. TOS main cast was beyond old and the movies had run their course. Had TVH not done so well, The Final Frontier would've never done the initial business it did get. And had TFF been any good, Paramount probably would've been able to close up shoppe on TOS, right there, and let TNG have some breathing room. What's always gotten me is how the campfire sequence is universally praised, when it's actually shite. It's just marginally better than the film its embedded in. Take it out of TFF and put it in at the start of TUC, lets say, and fans would've complained about how goofy it was.
But in TUC they were even older and yet it was quite good.
TUC was "good," because Nimoy asked Nick Meyer onboard AND because it milked - OK? - MILKED Trekkies for every last bit of emotional nostalgia, knowing that it was the last one. Everything from their retirement, in the beginning, to Spock's trying to pass the torch to Valeris, in his quarters, to the Peter Pan reference to the Cast - literally - signing off on the picture.
It relied, too heavily, upon playing up that feeling of it being the last film, rather than trying to be a GOOD film. But it's a fond farewell. On it's own merits, though, it's half-decent. It's watchable. But it hasn't aged well. And Chang's a bit grating, throughout, especially toward the end.
Speaking of The End, though, had THE VOYAGE HOME not been a surprise hit, TFF would've been an utter and complete failure and there might not have been a STAR TREK 6 to close up shoppe on a good note. Shatner's film benefited greatly from TVH's success. A success which, surely, Shatner would've been envious of, thus inspiring his using a Vulcan as his antagonist and playing him up as a whackadoo.
It relied, too heavily, upon playing up that feeling of it being the last film, rather than trying to be a GOOD film. But it's a fond farewell. On it's own merits, though, it's half-decent. It's watchable. But it hasn't aged well. And Chang's a bit grating, throughout, especially toward the end.
Speaking of The End, though, had THE VOYAGE HOME not been a surprise hit, TFF would've been an utter and complete failure and there might not have been a STAR TREK 6 to close up shoppe on a good note. Shatner's film benefited greatly from TVH's success. A success which, surely, Shatner would've been envious of, thus inspiring his using a Vulcan as his antagonist and playing him up as a whackadoo.
I could be mistaken, but I also recall Leonard Nimoy stating he tried to offer Mr. Shatner some directing advice - and was 100% rebuked; so the whole "I was left to fend for myself..." bit disingenuous if it's true Mr. Nimoy offered some advice.
Personally, I think that TVH is very nice and that it works much better than TFF.
With TVH I had been hoping for something at least somrehat similar in tone to "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" or "Assignment: Earth" if not "The City On The Edge Of Forever." Instead we got something cute and ridiculous. And the spill off was more dumb homour mucking up TFF on top of its other problems.
TVH--my least favoured of the TOS films.
TVH--my least favoured of the TOS films.
TUC also had a lot of gratuitous humor that really grated. Uhura flipping through Klingon phrase books was especially egregious, making her look like a buffoon instead of the experienced professional she should have been. Not to mention Meyer's love of Luddite touches -- books instead of a sophisticated database. And Valeris making Chekov and his security force look like doofuses, running rings around them while they looked for the (wrong) boot wearer.
Our beloved crew did not fare particularly well in ST6. Yes, some nice touches, and like you said, hitting all the nostalgia buttons. Not the worst of the movies, but not one of my favorites, either.
I don't care what anyone says, I like TFF. And I think Shatner is a hoot.
He takes a lot of crap for his personality and style, but he's had a career that any aspiring young actor could envy. And at age 85 he shows no signs of wanting to slow down.
I say, three cheers for William Shatner. Star Trek wouldn't have been the same without him.
He takes a lot of crap for his personality and style, but he's had a career that any aspiring young actor could envy. And at age 85 he shows no signs of wanting to slow down.
I say, three cheers for William Shatner. Star Trek wouldn't have been the same without him.
Plus he has a real sense of humor.
Oh, I agree. I enjoy seeing him in the variety of projects he's been in, and he has seemed to develop a pretty good sense of humor about himself in the last few of decades. And he's a lot of what I loved about Star Trek. I especially applaud him for staying busy at an age that most people (and particularly actors) retreat from a lot of activity.
However, I find most of his writing-involved projects pretty cringe-worthy. Pretty sure the ST:TFF story had his fingerprints all over it; most of the good in the Shatnerverse Star Trek novels (that I've read) I attribute to his co-writers; my wife loved the Tek Wars TV show, but I think it's drek.
But I don't single out Shatner alone -- most actors who get input into stories do not add to the production in a positive way. I place much of the blame for the bad over-emphasis on Data & Picard in ST: Nemesis on meddling from Spiner & Stewart. (Dune buggy, anyone?) Even outside Star Trek, many actor "passion projects" are flat-out terrible. Most should stick to their strengths -- acting -- and not flex their clout to take the writing reins.
In my humble opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.
Shatner was defeated by both Nimoy and Kelley in the observation deck scene. Shatner strongly wanted Sybok to succeed in breaking up the triumvirate. Nimoy felt that the characters had gone through too much in the previous films and put his foot down and Kelley backed him up and so one of the most exquisite scenes in the entire TOS movie run was saved as the iconic friendship rebuffs Sybok's powers of persuasion and Spock finally confronts the brother that confounded him so. .
The screwy numbers on the turbolift shaft was spotted, Shatner insisted that it was kept because the numbers were cool and made the shaft look tall.
For me, Shatner's ability swung like a pendulum. Superb work sits side by side with some really unwatchable rubbish. It's a very frustrating film in that way. I like the film but in some ways it'd be easier if he made a bad film right the way through!
In addition, the numbers on the turbolift are not arranged in order.
You're not mistaken, sir. As I understand it, Nimoy's advice was more about the politics of making a movie, rather than talking about framing up shots and so forth. The studio didn't want Shatner to direct, but it was contractual. They accepted his script, but there was some studio interference in the making of it and Nimoy was trying to help Shatner cope with that. Unfortunately, The Shat - by his own admission - swung off of his own bat, usually, anyway. To his detriment, and that of the film's perhaps.
Nimoy knew how to make compromises and where to make them, with his films. For example, in TSFS, the studio strongly suggested that he use a certain pre-used set for Kruge's Bird of Prey. It was free! So, he no doubt grumbled a little, because it's not how he envisioned it, but he knew there wasn't a battle to be had, there. But he did hold his ground regarding not using subtitles for the whale probe's song in TVH ... which the studio felt necessary. So, he could get things done, but Shatner didn't want to have to fight the studio, for his film. Had he not rammed his directorial debut down the studio's throats in the first instance, he might've felt he had enough clout to insist more heavily. And this is where Nimoy tried to offer some assistance.
William Shatner did not write the goddamn movie.
There's a place for goofiness and during a break between adventures (especially before one not as grim as TUC) is a pretty good one. There's a general problem that (sadly, very much like in Insurrection) the comic relief feels both out-of-place and excessive for a relatively serious story and plotline but I think taken on its own the comic relief is at least OK.
Shatner probably did want to put Spock through the wringer, for dramatic-story and/or personal resentment reasons, and yet Sybok is relatively sympathetic and reasonable, I'm not sure if that was from the writing or direction or if Shatner later regretted that.
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We should rub Shatner's nose in the movie then. "Bad, bad movie! No!"
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