Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble film?

[BillJ]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I agree but I also think you could expect more interactions between the guys and more Mccoy and dudebro stuff because Pegg is all about the male characters (listen to his interviews) and I'm sure his own bias influenced this aspect of the story and possibly changed the tone of the first two movies a bit.
The producers probably had to 'force' him to not scale back Uhura's role too much but she and her connection to kirk and spock clearly doesn't interest him because he made a point in interviews (before he became a writer) that for him the story are the male characters only.

You have been hammering away at this point for a few weeks, all based on the fact that Pegg said that he has a hard time writing for female characters, BECAUSE he wants them to be authentic and real, and he never quite feels that he has gotten it right.
So he honestly addressed his goals and insecurities as a writer and yet, your posts on the subject have become increasingly hyperbolic to the point of ridiculousness.

Yeah, I think I'll wait for the final product before condemning it.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Your argument is slightly confused - if Uhura had her own command she wouldn't be on the Enterprise! Also, remember she WAS entitled to be on the Enterprise, but Spock transferred her in a misguided attempt to seem impartial (that was his excuse, anyway). Apart from a bit of bickering in the shuttlepod to Kronos, I don't think we've seen their relationship affect their duties.

I meant a command of a team of people. A nice touch to show a more modern side of Uhura would maybe give her a senior lead on communications and show that she actually has a staff that is below her in rank. We never saw anything like that in the original series or movies. Its just my opinion. Maybe there isn't enough time in the movies to show this.

Wouldn't that cut into her screen time. One of the reasons we usually see Scotty, Geordie and O'Brien doing rather than delegating is they are main characters. If a problem needs to be solved from a story standpoint it should be done by one of our stars.

Yep. In the real world, leaders are often delegators and strategizers more than doers. But action-heroes are not delegators. After all, it's ridiculously irresponsible for Kirk (the captain) and Spock (the second in command) to almost always be the first to beam down into any mystery, conflict, or danger. But if they didn't, we would have no heroes and no stories.

It's almost a certainty there are multiple linguists, communications experts, probably even cultural experts and such on the Enterprise that report to Uhura in the chain of command. She just has to remember to thank all the "little people" when she gets her award for valor.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I agree but I also think you could expect more interactions between the guys and more Mccoy and dudebro stuff because Pegg is all about the male characters (listen to his interviews) and I'm sure his own bias influenced this aspect of the story and possibly changed the tone of the first two movies a bit.
The producers probably had to 'force' him to not scale back Uhura's role too much but she and her connection to kirk and spock clearly doesn't interest him because he made a point in interviews (before he became a writer) that for him the story are the male characters only.

You have been hammering away at this point for a few weeks, all based on the fact that Pegg said that he has a hard time writing for female characters, BECAUSE he wants them to be authentic and real, and he never quite feels that he has gotten it right.
So he honestly addressed his goals and insecurities as a writer and yet, your posts on the subject have become increasingly hyperbolic to the point of ridiculousness.

well, talk about 'hyperbolic', it seems to me we have something in common then since you're assuming a lot from my comment. Since you seem to have read all my comments about the matter I wonder how could you miss the part where I repeatedly said that I don't have this opinion about him JUST because of his last interview. In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him. He also stated, like I mentioned, that trek for him is and should be about the original trio. The only times I read him mentioning the female entities in trek were when he joked he wanted Scotty to get laid.

And then, as the icy on the cake, he himself explicitly stated/admitted he can't write the female characters (which I already knew) yet you make it seems I'm not allowed to personally think he gives ME certain vibes that make ME set my expectations low when it comes to him writing good female characters. I don't think my opinion is the most unreasonable you read on this site about any writer, but I might be wrong.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

well, talk about 'hyperbolic', it seems to me we have something in common then since you're assuming a lot from my comment. Since you seem to have read all my comments about the matter I wonder how could you miss the part where I repeatedly said that I don't have this opinion about him JUST because of his last interview. In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him. He also stated, like I mentioned, that trek for him is and should be about the original trio. The only times I read him mentioning the female entities in trek were when he joked he wanted Scotty to get laid.

And then, as the icy on the cake, he himself explicitly stated/admitted he can't write the female characters (which I already knew) yet you make it seems I'm not allowed to personally think he gives ME certain vibes that make ME set my expectations low when it comes to him writing good female characters. I don't think my opinion is the most unreasonable you read on this site about any writer, but I might be wrong.

Let's start with the icing - shall we? That's my favorite part of the cake anyway.

Simon Pegg: ‘I find it very hard to write for women’

Can we expect to find elements of romantic comedy in Pegg’s Star Trek, too? “Yes, absolutely,” he says. “Because it’s all about relationships. Myself and Doug Jung, who are writing it together, we’re writing about characters that already exist, so there are pre-existing relationships there, it’s a familial setting. It’s not a romantic comedy exactly, but there are human relationships in it, and that’s what’s at the heart of a romantic comedy, too.”

“I find it very hard to write for women,” adds Pegg. “It’s mine and Edgar [Wright, with whom he wrote Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz]’s self-confessed weakness – whenever we’ve written scripts together, the women in our films are the weakest characters. It’s hard – you can understand the opposite sex, and yet still there’s a degree of authenticity that’s hard to achieve. Particularly when you’re writing specifically about issues relating to your own gender, because when you’re trying to see how the opposite gender interprets those issues you tend to project what you hope they think, and it isn’t always right. So I thought Jack was a really interesting character.”

This is the "icing" quote. As you may notice, at no point does he use the word(s) "can't" "won't" "dislike", etc.

Rather he uses the words: "weakness", "weak", "authenticity".
His comments show an admirable desire to improve, and he isn't discussing the comments of others, but rather his OWN standards. So it is quite possible that others would disagree with his assessment of the female characters he writes, yet he would STILL not feel that he had acheived the level of authenticity he is searching for. In no way shape or form does that quote serve as proof of his disposition or lack of desire to include female characters, nor does it serve as the "icing" of any particular cake your posts are trying to create.

In fact, Pegg has publicly lamented the lack of strong female characters in film.

Link

Pegg has now also voiced his concern that not enough is being done to reflect real women in movies.
Speaking to BuzzFeed News, Pegg said that although the film industry is recognising the lack of well-written female characters, the problem is not being addressed fast enough. “I personally don’t feel there are enough female voices in film,” Pegg said. “I hope that the recognition of the lack of well-written female characters will be followed by change.”
Pegg said that one of the problems was that film genres are often split into gendered categories. He singled out romantic comedies as being a genre that is often misunderstood by many as being “for women”, and that people should go and see films written by women, not to avoid them because they think they’re films “for girls”.

Pegg admitted that this was a problem he had faced with his own writing in the past. In Shaun of the Dead, a film Pegg wrote and starred in, he played the role of Shaun, a man who was struggling to revive his relationship with his girlfriend while battling a zombie uprising. When writing the role of Liz, played by Liz Ashfield, Pegg said that despite their intention to make her a “positive and strong” woman, he and Edgar Wright struggled to “step into the skin of a different gender” to write a convincing character.
“Me and Edgar [Wright] always said that our Achilles heel was writing women. I think with Shaun of the Dead, we worked so hard not to make Liz the voice of reason, or a drag, or an obstacle to Ed. Ultimately, the romance in Shaun of the Dead was about Shaun and Ed and not Shaun and Liz.”

“Often in rom coms written by men, the female character will be some unattainable manic-pixie character, some male fantasy of what a woman is or should be… I like Tess’s voice, and I like she was writing a female character [Lake Bell’s role as Nancy] which has such a strong personality. There’s a rawness to it. She’s not a male fantasy.”

As for his comments on 'Scotty getting laid' those were made prior to his hiring as a writer:

Link

HollywoodChicago.com: Finally, Simon, the inevitable ‘Star Trek’ question. After creating a mostly perfect Valentine to that universe, what geeky suggestions did you give Abrams as your addition to making either your character Scotty or the whole thing work?

Pegg: There is a lot of love and respect in that movie. I hope that it disarmed some of the more worried fans, that it was in the hands of someone who cared about it. You could disagree with the decisions, but you couldn’t disagree that it was done seriously.

All I said to J.J. Abrams is that, ‘can we do it again?’ I also said jokingly can Scotty have a love scene with an Orion girl. [laughs] What I do know the crew is still new to each other. The next film will still be exploring the process of getting to know each other. There won’t be just now there’s a new adventure. We’ve only just met.

My prediction is that Alex [Kurtzman] and Roberto [Orci] will write a lovely character piece, as well as a good sci-fi romp. I’m very excited about it. As far as filming goes, we’re all hoping for August or September.

Another comment made by Pegg shows his mindset:

[W]e just want to take it forward with the spirit of the TV show. And it's a story about frontierism and adventure and optimism and fun, and that's where we want to take it, you know. Where no man has gone before – where no one has gone before, sensibly corrected for a slighter more enlightened generation. But yeah, that's the mood at the moment.

There is more, but I think that should suffice. It is apparent that Pegg's comments are not sufficient enough to build a case that we should 'lower our expectations' when it comes to female characters and at NO time has he EVER said he CAN'T write female characters.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

well, talk about 'hyperbolic', it seems to me we have something in common then since you're assuming a lot from my comment. Since you seem to have read all my comments about the matter I wonder how could you miss the part where I repeatedly said that I don't have this opinion about him JUST because of his last interview. In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him. He also stated, like I mentioned, that trek for him is and should be about the original trio. The only times I read him mentioning the female entities in trek were when he joked he wanted Scotty to get laid.

And then, as the icy on the cake, he himself explicitly stated/admitted he can't write the female characters (which I already knew) yet you make it seems I'm not allowed to personally think he gives ME certain vibes that make ME set my expectations low when it comes to him writing good female characters. I don't think my opinion is the most unreasonable you read on this site about any writer, but I might be wrong.

Let's start with the icing - shall we? That's my favorite part of the cake anyway.

Simon Pegg: ‘I find it very hard to write for women’

Can we expect to find elements of romantic comedy in Pegg’s Star Trek, too? “Yes, absolutely,” he says. “Because it’s all about relationships. Myself and Doug Jung, who are writing it together, we’re writing about characters that already exist, so there are pre-existing relationships there, it’s a familial setting. It’s not a romantic comedy exactly, but there are human relationships in it, and that’s what’s at the heart of a romantic comedy, too.”

This is the "icing" quote. As you may notice, at no point does he use the word(s) "can't" "won't" "dislike", etc.

Rather he uses the words: "weakness", "weak", "authenticity".
His comments show an admirable desire to improve, and he isn't discussing the comments of others, but rather his OWN standards. So it is quite possible that others would disagree with his assessment of the female characters he writes, yet he would STILL not feel that he had acheived the level of authenticity he is searching for. In no way shape or form does that quote serve as proof of his disposition or lack of desire to include female characters, nor does it serve as the "icing" of any particular cake your posts are trying to create.

In fact, Pegg has publicly lamented the lack of strong female characters in film.

Link







As for his comments on 'Scotty getting laid' those were made prior to his hiring as a writer:

Link

HollywoodChicago.com: Finally, Simon, the inevitable ‘Star Trek’ question. After creating a mostly perfect Valentine to that universe, what geeky suggestions did you give Abrams as your addition to making either your character Scotty or the whole thing work?

Pegg: There is a lot of love and respect in that movie. I hope that it disarmed some of the more worried fans, that it was in the hands of someone who cared about it. You could disagree with the decisions, but you couldn’t disagree that it was done seriously.

All I said to J.J. Abrams is that, ‘can we do it again?’ I also said jokingly can Scotty have a love scene with an Orion girl. [laughs] What I do know the crew is still new to each other. The next film will still be exploring the process of getting to know each other. There won’t be just now there’s a new adventure. We’ve only just met.

My prediction is that Alex [Kurtzman] and Roberto [Orci] will write a lovely character piece, as well as a good sci-fi romp. I’m very excited about it. As far as filming goes, we’re all hoping for August or September.

Another comment made by Pegg shows his mindset:

[W]e just want to take it forward with the spirit of the TV show. And it's a story about frontierism and adventure and optimism and fun, and that's where we want to take it, you know. Where no man has gone before – where no one has gone before, sensibly corrected for a slighter more enlightened generation. But yeah, that's the mood at the moment.

There is more, but I think that should suffice. It is apparent that Pegg's comments are not sufficient enough to build a case that we should 'lower our expectations' when it comes to female characters and at NO time has he EVER said he CAN'T write female characters.

The struggle is real.
Some might think you are accusing me of being cruel and unfair with Pegg but I just don't have a selective memory, you know, nor the energy to go finding back every comment he made in interviews or over twitter that gave ME negative vibes about him.
You are derailing my original point too. I said, in reply to those thinking it's a given that they won't replace Uhura with Mccoy, that he might sort of want to bring back the original trio at the expense of the reboot dynamics because he likes the original trio, Mccoy and he is partial to dynamics between the guys. And from his own admission it's easier for him to write about the guys. These are all points, his preference for the guys, that the quotes you posted don't deny.

I get you don't like that I'm not a fan of him and I don't trust him when it comes to aspects of the movies I appreciated from the previous creative team (not that Orci&co were perfect) but I stand by my opinion that his main interest is the male characters and I don't feel like I can automatically expect him to do well with the female ones.
Now, you can take his admission about his ability or lack of to write good female characters as a positive thing and a sign he wants to improve himself but that no way tells me that in trek he successfully improved that part of his writing he admits is flawed. And he made that interview while he was writing the script so excuse me if that doesn't make me hopeful..

And you are the only one here talking about a WE, I never said that you should all lower our expetations too. Idk why it's so important for you to convince me that a movie neither me or you had watched did great with an aspect I'm concerned about.
Telling someone they must be optimistic no matter their, legit, doubts is as over the top to me as expecting everyone to be pessimistic just because you are.

 

[Dales]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

well, talk about 'hyperbolic', it seems to me we have something in common then since you're assuming a lot from my comment. Since you seem to have read all my comments about the matter I wonder how could you miss the part where I repeatedly said that I don't have this opinion about him JUST because of his last interview. In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him. He also stated, like I mentioned, that trek for him is and should be about the original trio. The only times I read him mentioning the female entities in trek were when he joked he wanted Scotty to get laid.

And then, as the icy on the cake, he himself explicitly stated/admitted he can't write the female characters (which I already knew) yet you make it seems I'm not allowed to personally think he gives ME certain vibes that make ME set my expectations low when it comes to him writing good female characters. I don't think my opinion is the most unreasonable you read on this site about any writer, but I might be wrong.

Let's start with the icing - shall we? That's my favorite part of the cake anyway.

Simon Pegg: ‘I find it very hard to write for women’





This is the "icing" quote. As you may notice, at no point does he use the word(s) "can't" "won't" "dislike", etc.

Rather he uses the words: "weakness", "weak", "authenticity".
His comments show an admirable desire to improve, and he isn't discussing the comments of others, but rather his OWN standards. So it is quite possible that others would disagree with his assessment of the female characters he writes, yet he would STILL not feel that he had acheived the level of authenticity he is searching for. In no way shape or form does that quote serve as proof of his disposition or lack of desire to include female characters, nor does it serve as the "icing" of any particular cake your posts are trying to create.

In fact, Pegg has publicly lamented the lack of strong female characters in film.

Link







As for his comments on 'Scotty getting laid' those were made prior to his hiring as a writer:

Link



Another comment made by Pegg shows his mindset:

[W]e just want to take it forward with the spirit of the TV show. And it's a story about frontierism and adventure and optimism and fun, and that's where we want to take it, you know. Where no man has gone before – where no one has gone before, sensibly corrected for a slighter more enlightened generation. But yeah, that's the mood at the moment.

There is more, but I think that should suffice. It is apparent that Pegg's comments are not sufficient enough to build a case that we should 'lower our expectations' when it comes to female characters and at NO time has he EVER said he CAN'T write female characters.

The struggle is real.
Some might think you are accusing me of being cruel and unfair with Pegg but I just don't have a selective memory, you know, nor the energy to go finding back every comment he made in interviews or over twitter that gave ME negative vibes about him.
You are derailing my original point too. I said, in reply to those thinking it's a given that they won't replace Uhura with Mccoy, that he might sort of want to bring back the original trio at the expense of the reboot dynamics because he likes the original trio, Mccoy and he is partial to dynamics between the guys. And from his own admission it's easier for him to write about the guys. These are all points, his preference for the guys, that the quotes you posted don't deny.

I get you don't like that I'm not a fan of him and I don't trust him when it comes to aspects of the movies I appreciated from the previous creative team (not that Orci&co were perfect) but I stand by my opinion that his main interest is the male characters and I don't feel like I can automatically expect him to do well with the female ones.
Now, you can take his admission about his ability or lack of to write good female characters as a positive thing and a sign he wants to improve himself but that no way tells me that in trek he successfully improved that part of his writing he admits is flawed. And he made that interview while he was writing the script so excuse me if that doesn't make me hopeful..

And you are the only one here talking about a WE, I never said that you should all lower our expetations too. Idk why it's so important for you to convince me that a movie neither me or you had watched did great with an aspect I'm concerned about.
Telling someone they must be optimistic no matter their, legit, doubts is as over the top to me as expecting everyone to be pessimistic just because you are.

people may be overreacting about pegg saying he cant write women and even if he can not, it is not as if he is the sole writer of the film. he is a co writer, so maybe the other writers can write women.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

^Yea, I was about to mention that.

Justin Lin, apparently has done a good job making the Fast And Furious Movies more ensemble, so, that gives me reason to believe Lin would be looking at the aspect for the small number of Females in the cast. Also, I've seen it noted he's good with characters (The Director of these movies is responsible for ensuring any weak spots in the script are fixed)

And then you have Doug Jung as well who might bring that strength

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

^ Speaking of Jung, he really is a man of mystery, isn't he? I am wondering if he is the Trekspert of the team, there to maintain the continuity (as much as such a thing is possible).

I watched the DVD extras for the NuTrek films last night. A couple of points of interest:

- Both Quinto and Pine seem to talk with the expectation of making multiple films in the franchise, which indicates that talk of a third or fourth film is not coming out of the blue. (Pine says he looks forward to exploring Kirk and McCoy's relationship in future "movies", i.e. plural.)
- I can't help feeling sorry for Bob Orci. Of all JJ's team he was the greatest Trek fan, but he became the greatest target precisely because it was he who interacted most with fandom. Maybe in years to come his contribution will be recognised and respected.
- Looking at the cool make-ups for the background aliens made me think there should be a more prominent presence of really alien aliens in NuTrek. But then the problem with that is it would take away from some of Spock's alien quality, which is so essential to the character and his relationships. It's a bit of a quandary. Maybe one day, when they make NuNuNuTrek, they will update Spock's look to make him more inhuman...

In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him.

This is untrue.

And then, as the icy on the cake, he himself explicitly stated/admitted he can't write the female characters (which I already knew)

No, he said "I find it very hard to write for women", which is not the same as saying he can't write female characters. He went on to say "you can understand the opposite sex, and yet still there’s a degree of authenticity that’s hard to achieve." He has thought about this issue, he cares about this issue, and is obviously not the misogynist you keep implying he is. I think you have what in psychology is called an idée fixe.

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/05/pegg-star-trek-3-writing-pressures/

 

[beamMe]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

well, talk about 'hyperbolic', it seems to me we have something in common then since you're assuming a lot from my comment. Since you seem to have read all my comments about the matter I wonder how could you miss the part where I repeatedly said that I don't have this opinion about him JUST because of his last interview. In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him. He also stated, like I mentioned, that trek for him is and should be about the original trio. The only times I read him mentioning the female entities in trek were when he joked he wanted Scotty to get laid.

And then, as the icy on the cake, he himself explicitly stated/admitted he can't write the female characters (which I already knew) yet you make it seems I'm not allowed to personally think he gives ME certain vibes that make ME set my expectations low when it comes to him writing good female characters. I don't think my opinion is the most unreasonable you read on this site about any writer, but I might be wrong.

Let's start with the icing - shall we? That's my favorite part of the cake anyway.

Simon Pegg: ‘I find it very hard to write for women’





This is the "icing" quote. As you may notice, at no point does he use the word(s) "can't" "won't" "dislike", etc.

Rather he uses the words: "weakness", "weak", "authenticity".
His comments show an admirable desire to improve, and he isn't discussing the comments of others, but rather his OWN standards. So it is quite possible that others would disagree with his assessment of the female characters he writes, yet he would STILL not feel that he had acheived the level of authenticity he is searching for. In no way shape or form does that quote serve as proof of his disposition or lack of desire to include female characters, nor does it serve as the "icing" of any particular cake your posts are trying to create.

In fact, Pegg has publicly lamented the lack of strong female characters in film.

Link







As for his comments on 'Scotty getting laid' those were made prior to his hiring as a writer:

Link



Another comment made by Pegg shows his mindset:

[W]e just want to take it forward with the spirit of the TV show. And it's a story about frontierism and adventure and optimism and fun, and that's where we want to take it, you know. Where no man has gone before – where no one has gone before, sensibly corrected for a slighter more enlightened generation. But yeah, that's the mood at the moment.

There is more, but I think that should suffice. It is apparent that Pegg's comments are not sufficient enough to build a case that we should 'lower our expectations' when it comes to female characters and at NO time has he EVER said he CAN'T write female characters.

The struggle is real.
Some might think you are accusing me of being cruel and unfair with Pegg but I just don't have a selective memory, you know, nor the energy to go finding back every comment he made in interviews or over twitter that gave ME negative vibes about him.
You are derailing my original point too. I said, in reply to those thinking it's a given that they won't replace Uhura with Mccoy, that he might sort of want to bring back the original trio at the expense of the reboot dynamics because he likes the original trio, Mccoy and he is partial to dynamics between the guys. And from his own admission it's easier for him to write about the guys. These are all points, his preference for the guys, that the quotes you posted don't deny.

I get you don't like that I'm not a fan of him and I don't trust him when it comes to aspects of the movies I appreciated from the previous creative team (not that Orci&co were perfect) but I stand by my opinion that his main interest is the male characters and I don't feel like I can automatically expect him to do well with the female ones.
Now, you can take his admission about his ability or lack of to write good female characters as a positive thing and a sign he wants to improve himself but that no way tells me that in trek he successfully improved that part of his writing he admits is flawed. And he made that interview while he was writing the script so excuse me if that doesn't make me hopeful..

And you are the only one here talking about a WE, I never said that you should all lower our expetations too. Idk why it's so important for you to convince me that a movie neither me or you had watched did great with an aspect I'm concerned about.
Telling someone they must be optimistic no matter their, legit, doubts is as over the top to me as expecting everyone to be pessimistic just because you are.

You do act as if you already know that Pegg will change the character dynamic of the past two films. He will not. He isn't the only writer and there is a producer who'll step in and correct things he doesn't like.
And you also dismiss the possibility of Pegg learning and improving as a writer.

Yes, you've already made up your mind; for you it is so written and it will so be done.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him and interest him.

This is untrue.

What is untrue? The male characters are his fav, he had expressed that feeling in more than an interview. He did say that trek is the original trio.

I think there is nothing wrong about him having a preference but since he is one of the writers I'm allowed to wonder about what kind of negative influence (for me) he had on the script.

[

You do act as if you already know that Pegg will change the character dynamic of the past two films. He will not. He isn't the only writer and there is a producer who'll step in and correct things he doesn't like.
And you also dismiss the possibility of Pegg learning and improving as a writer.

Yes, you've already made up your mind; for you it is so written and it will so be done.

What's different between me and you that makes your feelings more valid?
You do act as you already know his script or contributions were flawless and that he absolutely improved his writing even though, from his own admission while he was completing the script, he has issues writing certain aspects because it's easier for him to write the male characters and their interactions (my point).
You also assume that his own sense of what consists as improvement for female characters according to him is absolutely right or the best for everyone and that he is above judgment in either case.

Everything I said is that maybe he will bring back the original trio and try to change the dynamics according to his own taste and preference, yet some here are sort of having a nervous breakdown because I DARE to have doubts about his writing. Doubts that are expressed by others too and not just women either. Just the other day I came across a comment over Zoe Saldana's page where a man was telling her that he hopes Pegg didn't ruin her character because he's partial to the guys. I guess I'm not the only one who got certain impressions about him.

You won't accept anyone having doubts about his writing and you guys make it seems he is some sort of feminist I can trust with the female characters with my blood, lol (though, tbh, a lot of feminists are kind of the worst nowadays sometimes but that's another matter)
We are making it bigger than it was. I'm not saying the whole movie will be shite, just expressing my personal concerns about Pegg.

I agree he is not the only one writing this, he just is the only one I have some clue about. I know nothing about the other guy, unlike Pegg I'm not familiar with his writing nor listened to his interviews. For what I know, he might be better or worse than Pegg about the aspects I'm concerned about.

 

[beamMe]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

...

I realized that I just don't care.
If Uhura is glued to her station saying nothing but "Channel open" I'm fine with that as long as the story they are telling in that film is good.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him

If you are unable to verify this assertion, there's no reason we should believe it's true.

 

[Mage]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Malaika, in regards to the interview you misunderstand.... Pegg never said he CAN'T write female characters, he said he finds it difficult. Two different things. There are things that I find difficult, but that doesn't mean I can't do it if I do my best. Or ask help.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Malaika, in regards to the interview you misunderstand.... Pegg never said he CAN'T write female characters, he said he finds it difficult. Two different things. There are things that I find difficult, but that doesn't mean I can't do it if I do my best. Or ask help.

"It's mine and Edgar's [Wright] Achilles heel: we couldn't write good women. We fought to do it in*Shaun Of The Dead. We wrote the female character out of Hot Fuzz because we realised the romance was between Nick and I. In The World's End, Rosamund's [Pike] character is kind of on the sidelines. But I think women just understand men better, and can write men better as characters. "
​

Read more:*http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/sim...-up-tintin-2-rom-coms-directing#ixzz3frdB1wcL

Saying that I misuranderstood him implies that your interpretation is a fact but truth is neither of us knows for sure what he meant and what he meant in terms of the movie he was writing (trek) when he made that interview you refer to.
And again, I don't have my opinions only for that stupid interview. You guys keep derailing my original point harping on my interpretation of that interview to not address the fact that, yes, the male characters and their dynamics are the stuff he is the most interested about and for this reason, alone, it's legit to wonder how he'd handle stuff he himself admits he has troubles handling. I don't see what's unreasonable about that feeling.

In some of his past and present interviews about all the movies where he's in or that he had written he's constantly stressing the fact that the male characters are IT for him

If you are unable to verify this assertion, there's no reason we should believe it's true.

I dunno if it even computes to you that I'm only sharing my opinion and I'm not the one trying to convince anyone here. I surely don't need to convince you because if you care, since you replied to me and you are the one saying that what I stated is untrue (yet posted no quote from him to support you thesis) you can easily find some stuff over youtube and listen to some of his interviews about stid. Can't expect me to transcript every of his comments just to justify myself to you and try to explain in details why I have an opinion about Pegg.

That said, here's some examples:

“Leonard McCoy is a southern gentleman and a top medical man… he’s kind of the third. Traditionally, there’s a triumvirate at the center of Star Trek, and it’s Spock, Kirk and Bones, and he’s just a beloved character. Deeply loyal, deeply brave… he’s kind of the other woman to Kirk, really, there’s a sweetness in that. I hope they play that more. Because Bones doesn’t have much patience for Spock, you know, Bones in a way is an even more emotional person than Kirk, I think he’s much more pragmatic.” —Simon Pegg on Dr. Leonard “Bones” McCoy​

To be fair this doesn't mean he wanted them to scale back Uhura but he said that about the reboot not tos only. My original point was that with him in the writing it's POSSIBLE he MAYBE tried to bring back the original trio so them keeping the dynamics identical to the first movies is not really a given for me.
Of course more Mccoy and bonding b/w males shouldn't be mutual exclusive with other dynamics, one can hope he gets that but...

“That bond is just so lovely, it’s kind of more interesting than any sort of romance in the entire story… And Zach and Chris play that so well, you know. They’re great friends in real life, and to play that sort of… almost like romantic tension, they have great fun with it.” —Simon Pegg on Kirk & Spock in the reboot (google for source video)
​

He said a similar thing about his roles too, he keeps saying that the real bonds are the male friendships only ..which I don't have a problem with as long as he is not writing female characters I like. THEN I have to wonder and set my expectations low.

(I find it weird that he seems to put the friendship into a competion with the romantic relationships. I think you don't need to put down other kinds of dynamics that have a different purpose in the story to praise the friendship. I'm sorry but it's stupid. I don't even know what he means with 'any sort of romance' because surely the actual romances implied or developed in the movies are not like Kirk's flings, they are all -starting from the very first scene with Kirk parents - meaningful bonds that exist on their own merit and are no less important for the characters than a, frankly, forced friendship between two strangers who might still dislike each other if the man from the future hadn't told them to be friends. Note that he put k/s above the relationships/romances with the female characters - specifically - only, he didn't say that their bond is more interesting than the other relationships like the other male friendships in the movies e.g., kirk/bones or scotty/kirk )

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

The relationship between Kirk and Spock - and to some degree - McCoy is the most interesting dynamic in TOS. You give the most screen time to the most interesting and intriguing relationships, that's just common sense.
However, the reboots have done a fantastic job of adding depth and emotion to the relationship between Spock and Uhura, to the point that McCoy has been sidelined. That's not a problem in my book.

My biggest complaint, Malaika, is that your opinion is based on what I consider an erroneous interpretation of a few snippets of conversation, and that you continue to "double down" on that interpretation, despite evidence that is presented to you that shows a contrary, in fact an opposite viewpoint. Although I am sure that plenty of people on this thread admire Pegg, there is no groupthink conspiracy to destroy those who are concerned about how he has handled his Trek writing duties. But there are more than a few people who have attempted to convince you that your fears are unfounded, and yet you continue to repeat them and add to them. That is very frustrating.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

My biggest complaint, Malaika, is that your opinion is based on what I consider an erroneous interpretation of a few snippets of conversation, and that you continue to "double down" on that interpretation, despite evidence that is presented to you that shows a contrary, in fact an opposite viewpoint.

here's the problem: I don't see all this evidence that my interpretation and concerns are wrong or unfounded.

and believe me, I really don't WANT to be right about this matter.

But there are more than a few people who have attempted to convince you that your fears are unfounded, and yet you continue to repeat them and add to them. That is very frustrating.

I'm sorry it's frustrating to you but, you know, I'm allowed to have feelings and express them as well the same way you are doing and, mods correct me if I'm wrong, without going against the rules.
I don't think we're here to convince each other, at the very least we can simply express our own takes and opinions and consequently agree or disagree.

----------------


eta: I forgot to mention, about the first part of your reply 'The relationship between Kirk and Spock': maybe I should have specified it (and I will edit the other comment) but that quote by Simon Pegg is specifically about the reboot, NOT TOS. This context is important to understand why I found his comment a bit uncalled for and very dismissive of the female characters in the last two movies and their bonds with the male characters (and probably I'd have less a problem with what he said had him said he found K/S more interesting than any other relationship - generic . )

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

and believe me, I really don't WANT to be right about this matter.

Yeah, I kinda think you do want to be right.



But anyways, moving on...

In the previous two nuTrek films, each of the secondary characters were "featured" in one or more scenes, although the bulk of the story revolved around the Kirk/Spock and to a lesser extent the Kirk/Spock/McCoy the Spock/Uhura character dynamics. I don't see that changing much in this new film.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Malaika, for a different perspective on what Pegg might have been saying, think of George Lucas and his inability to let go of (and allow it to be finished) the Original Trilogy of Star Wars. To me, it is quite clear that what Pegg is saying is that he second guesses himself on female characters and wether he got the got them realistic, or if he's filtering them through a "Male Fantasy" lens. I also believe, it was a bit of a Meta statement about all men in Hollywood writing female characters, if you refer to that one interview where he talks about female writers.

 

[Mudd]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I'm sorry, who's the fucking Genius Writer For Women In the Sci-Fi Genre that Pegg's in danger of not living up to?

Certainly no one who's written anything for Star Trek in the past.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I'm sorry, who's the fucking Genius Writer For Women In the Sci-Fi Genre that Pegg's in danger of not living up to?

Certainly no one who's written anything for Star Trek in the past.

Precisely