Spoilers Will Hugh still go by "Hugh"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by NewHeavensNewEarth, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. SJGardner

    SJGardner Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And Harry being Harry, he's still just an Ensign.
     
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  2. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I heard the title of the show will change in second season to Star Trek: Neelix
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Which is a later change. I'm talking about what the writers of TNG assumed when the Hugh episodes were written.


    Not always. In VGR: "Time and Again," it was mandated by the story -- Janeway and Paris arrived among the natives by accident, with no prior chance to prepare, and had to be able to blend in with the locals.

    And I think in early TNG it's because it was a 1980s show produced by veterans of 1960s-70s SF, and thus was still made with a lot of the same sensibilities, e.g. a lot of aliens looking exactly human. Although that's a trope that seems to be back in fashion in recent years, whether in DC or Marvel screen adaptations -- the alien designs in the Guardians of the Galaxy films, for instance, are often surprisingly '60s-ish with just bright body paint on otherwise human characters -- and in movies like Jupiter Ascending. So it isn't limited to low-budget productions by any means.



    Okay, so I overstated that, but the point is that the specific drones actually depicted in TNG, characters like Hugh and the "Descent" cultists, were never portrayed as assimilated people with prior memories. Assimilation was spoken of but not directly dramatized on an individual level except with Picard. And Hugh explicitly said that the Borg assimilate civilizations, not individuals. When the TNG Borg said "You will be assimilated," they weren't addressing any individual people, any more than you or I would attempt to address a single blood cell in another person. They didn't recognize the existence of individuals. They were addressing humanity and the Federation as a collective. From their perspective, maybe just assimilating a representative sample of the population along with all its knowledge and technological resources was enough to constitute assimilating the civilization; how many specific people they absorbed in the process was of total unconcern to them.

    Again, it was First Contact's and Voyager's retcon to shift the focus more to a personal level. Which made sense from a dramatic standpoint -- threats and conflicts need to be personal to work dramatically -- but it was still a dilution of the original concept of the Borg's sheer unawareness of individual existence. TNG's Borg were a threat to us because we were ants underfoot to them and would be trampled if we got in their way; FC's and VGR's Borg were a threat because they were a zombie horde trying to eat our brains. Two totally different approaches, one Lovecraftian, the other Romeroesque.
     
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  4. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hubert J Farnsworth it is. :D
     
  5. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If people are worried about retconning, might as well make it "Star Trek: Tuvix." :lol:
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, Hugh was a 'native-born' Borg, not an individual who was assimilated. So he can't have memories of a former life, because he never had one.
     
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  7. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's either that or he was assimilated when he was a baby.
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think the writers were even considering assimilation (as a general Borg tactic) during TNG's run. Pretty sure that only kicked into high gear with ST:FC.

    It would explain why Hugh was so impressionable in "I Borg", and the other drones on his cube so readily fell under Lore's spell in "Descent". That's because they had no former lives - once they lost their Borgness, they were essentially blank slates.

    As for Hugh himself: He will probably still be called that. Seven, OTOH, might not use her real name. She never used it on Voyager, so why would she do it now?
     
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  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    Only Neelix is the name of the ship in which Tuvik is now captain of as he searches the galaxy looking for revenge on Janeway. He has a burn mark on his left cheek from when she tried killing him with a transporter but he found away out of it. How he did it to be revealed in season 2 final. Also I guess Picard has a cameo in first episode since the show use to be about him.


    Jason
     
  10. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :guffaw::bolian:

    Though I was hoping for Troy McBorg as in "Hi, I'm Troy McBorg. You may know me as 'Borg 3 of 5' or 'Lore's Love Judas.'" :lol:
     
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  11. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can think of some situations:

    1. The government/bureaucracy asks for her "legal" name (that's how it is with most people when they deal with the oovernment -- the DMV, the IRS, Social Security, etc.).

    2. There may be some situations where she has to hide the fact she's Borg.

    3. Using it as an alias.
     
  12. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Or simply to establish a more human identity. Besides I'm sure they took the name "Seven" from Seinfeld. Seinfeld's "The Seven" aired 02/01/1996 and "Scorpion: Part II" aired 09/03/1997.
     
  13. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Depending upon the circumstances, she may well go back and forth (I can't see her giving up Seven completely; it's too much a part of her).
     
  14. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    Crap! Why did I not come up with that joke!

    Jason
     
  15. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I haven't seen the voyager episode in question, but apparently it says that they only ever assimilate don't reproduce and that therefore the Borg babies were just kidnapped babies who were assimilated.

    Which is dumb and which flies in the face of "Q Who" which, you know, created the borg.

    Apparently Voyager also has the Borg at one point using friggin' control panels, so in a show that so fundamentally misses the point, I'm not inclined to really care what they thought or said about the Borg and I hope this show quietly ignores any of their more egregious errors, if they come up at all.
     
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  16. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Early TNG it was suggested that the Ferengi were carnivores/cannibals. That was retconned pretty quick within TNG's run. I think the same thing happened with the Borg. In "Q Who?" Q said the borg weren't interested in biological life just technology. Yet in" First Contact" the Borg Queen made it clear they have been assimalting for "thousands of years"

    The real reason for this change is the writers didn't intend the Borg to be assimilating aliens originally. This change was made to make them more menacing. Notice Guinan said the Borg destroyed her world not assimilated it. She also said the borg have been "developing" their technological components for thousands of years. No mention of assimilation.

    Now can it be that they can assimalte and be born as borg too? For sure. But based on the writers for Picard I'm pretty sure they will simply go with the popular reputation for the Borg (the assimilating kind)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  17. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Assimilation is scary. Borg babies aren't. It's no mystery why we focus on the former rather than the latter. Borg babies don't affect our people. Assimilation does. I don't think we ever need to hear about Borg babies again. But it doesn't mean it doesn't happen!
     
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  18. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Stop arguing me when I'm agreeing with you.

    As for the "retcon" in FC - I see no such retcon. But the Borg needed to assimilate the Enterprise crew as a first step to assimilating Earth. Doesn't change their MO one bit.
     
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  19. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The logical problem with the Borg being unable to biologically reproduce is drones will always be lost to attrition even if they do not age. In order to ensure a steady state population of drones, the Borg would need to leave unassimilated planets behind their lines. Otherwise they're more like a virus than a civilization and will eventually burn themselves out.
     
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  20. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wow, hadn't even thought of that, but terrific point!