Why would Lore want Data's emotion chip?

[TribbleFeeder]

Oh thank you !
I use that website : http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/episodes.htm
I never checked if it matched the actual dialogues, though, as I almost never watch episodes in English.

If I have enough time this week, I'll probably rewatch Brothers again and note down what the dialogues between Noonien and Lore are like in French, if you're interested

Sidebar: Can’t believe you’re French! Your written English is on point. Props.

Edit: English is my first language and I literally had to edit this for a grammatical error

The “your” and “you’re” really mess me up!

 

[Prax]

Lore is a jerk, but so is Dr. Soong! NTM a fool. Is anyone surprise that Lore has the personality he does? Or when Data finally starts using his own emotion chip, he becomes a major a**hole.

All three have way too much spiner in them.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

Sidebar: Can’t believe you’re French! Your written English is on point. Props.

Aaaww thank you :3


Back on topic, I'm curious about the effects the chip may have on Lore. If it conflicts with his own emotional devices, what kind of effects does it have ? ? And if it doesn't conflict but adds up to his emotional experience, then what level of emotions does it give him ? ? Does it provide him a deepened level of emotional conscience we humans couldn't imagine ? To be fair, it's already quite beyond our reach to imagine what an emotional android would feel !

 

[Prax]

I don't think Lore uses the chip for himself. He later uses it on Data to maipulate him.

 

[Mojochi]

I don't think Lore uses the chip for himself. He later uses it on Data to maipulate him.

But not only does he tell Soong that it's doing "Something" once Soong installed it, he also is patching Data into the chip later on , through himself. We do know from Data's experience with it, once he is fully using it, that it can be deactivated. So it's possible Lore used it, but then either stopped using it, or only chose to use what he wanted from it

Back on topic, I'm curious about the effects the chip may have on Lore. If it conflicts with his own emotional devices, what kind of effects does it have ? ? And if it doesn't conflict but adds up to his emotional experience, then what level of emotions does it give him ? ? Does it provide him a deepened level of emotional conscience we humans couldn't imagine ? To be fair, it's already quite beyond our reach to imagine what an emotional android would feel !

This is one of the reasons I never liked the emotion chip plot device. If I had to guess, it seems for Data, the chip offers a range of emotion he couldn't experience before. So for Lore, who already has a wildly erratic range of emotions, it would likely represent an even more wildly erratic amount of emotion to experience

For example, he'd always been an egomaniac, & had the capacity for extreme vindictiveness & cruelty, but what he's planning with the Borg, goes beyond that into megalomania. I truly think he expects to rule the galaxy with that effort, & in fact, the only thing even close to being able to stop him was Data, which is why he had to subjugate or destroy Data to make it happen. I like to think this next evolution of egomania might stem from increased emotional potency from his use of the chip. It's a stretch though

 

[Lance]

Possibly, Lore recognised that his emotions were flawed and had resulted in him becoming the asshole he is, and consciously stole away the chip because he thought, mistakenly, that it may 'correct' him?

I am a believer in the theory that the chip doesn't actually give emotions, but merely unlocks Data's inhibitors on emotions he could otherwise be experiencing. So for Data, the chip "unblocks" key neural pathways that Soong locked away after Lore went awry the way he did, in the hope that one day Soong would be able to work out the kinks and be able to offer Data the update that'll unlock the emotions and allow him to develop positively without also having the potential side-effect of him becoming a narcissistic malevolent bastard with a fetish for giant snow flakes Given the chip was designed specifically *for* Data, to unlock *his* emotions, it therefore does nothing at all to Lore, whose emotions are already unlocked and fully developed. Telling is that even when installed in Lore, the chip can actually only broadcast (remotely) to Data. Its clearly designed to only be compatible with specific Android devices.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Aaaww thank you :3


Back on topic, I'm curious about the effects the chip may have on Lore. If it conflicts with his own emotional devices, what kind of effects does it have ? ? And if it doesn't conflict but adds up to his emotional experience, then what level of emotions does it give him ? ? Does it provide him a deepened level of emotional conscience we humans couldn't imagine ? To be fair, it's already quite beyond our reach to imagine what an emotional android would feel !

D.I.D.? Imagine Spiner flipping through different personalities like he did in Masks, only as Lore.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

I am a believer in the theory that the chip doesn't actually give emotions, but merely unlocks Data's inhibitors on emotions he could otherwise be experiencing. So for Data, the chip "unblocks" key neural pathways that Soong locked away after Lore went awry the way he did, in the hope that one day Soong would be able to work out the kinks and be able to offer Data the update that'll unlock the emotions and allow him to develop positively without also having the potential side-effect of him becoming a narcissistic malevolent bastard with a fetish for giant snow flakes

I too agree to this theory. There are so many evidences in the show that Data does experience (unconscious) emotions that I couldn't list them all !
I'm pretty convinced he has some sort of emotional backlogs as well, acting as both emotional processing memory and emotional save states. If it wasn't the case, he basically wouldn't be able to feel familiarity towards the people he knows, especially after the chip is installed. Ie he would look at Geordi and wouldn't be able to feel any sort of friendly emotion, which is clearly not the case.

 

[feral.cherub]

Aaaww thank you :3


Back on topic, I'm curious about the effects the chip may have on Lore. If it conflicts with his own emotional devices, what kind of effects does it have ? ? And if it doesn't conflict but adds up to his emotional experience, then what level of emotions does it give him ? ? Does it provide him a deepened level of emotional conscience we humans couldn't imagine ? To be fair, it's already quite beyond our reach to imagine what an emotional android would feel !

My personal opinion is that it boils down to good old fashioned envy. Unlike jealousy, where you feel protective and possessive of what is your own or what you want, envy means that you don't want what another has-or lays claim to-you, but you don't want them to have it either.

 

[Paradise City]

Lore hawks the chip for himself to spite Soong. This dumps another set of emotions on top of Lore's already volatile set of emotions creating one heckuva screwed up feller.

And yet he doesn't quite have the crippling manic episodes Data does when Data finally installs the chip in Generations. And Lore is actually less weird and daft than he is in Datalore. Of course that's more due to the clown-writing in that episode but lets not get too sidetracked with the backroom stuff....

Lore actually does remind me of (Montalban) Kahn. He thinks he's the biggest smarty-pants in town, he's got his cultural quips on recall and yet his choking lust for power and his fiery itch for revenge makes him do a helluva lot of stupid stuff.

That's what Generations should've been. Montalban (starring as Kahn's identical twin Chris) & Spiner teaming up in some sort of darker axe wielding take on Laurel & Hardy chasing down Shatner, Stewart & well, Spiner, again in a mad interstellar romp book-ending a final, final tribute to TOS.

Damn, you Berman! THIS is what Generations should've been!!!!!!!!!!!111111.

.

 

[Herbert]

Lore wanted the chip because it was created for Data. Lore wanted anything Data had, or barring that wanted to destroy anything Data had. He had serious sibling rivalry and good old dad was clueless.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

Lore wanted the chip because it was created for Data. Lore wanted anything Data had, or barring that wanted to destroy anything Data had. He had serious sibling rivalry and good old dad was clueless.

Herbert I think you hit the nail on the head here.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Lore was already capable of emotion. He told Data in Brothers that he didn't have to imagine; he knew how hard it's been, and that Data would be surprised. That Data might even be able to understand his "evil" brother.

I agree that first and foremost it was to deprive Data as well as hurt Dr. Soon. Lore both loves and hates his "father" and craves his approval while demonstrating that he is independent. Secondly, I believe, on some level, Lore believed/hoped it would somehow "fix" him. Remember Lore is emotionally broken, not physically, and like many finds himself praying for an easy remedy - that is what makes Lore weak and Data strong.

I hate to say it but Lore is a trope that exists in a great many families. I have a brother who has had near lifelong issue with narcotics. Spiner's portrayal of Lore very much reminds me of him - nothing is his fault as everyone else is at fault for his messed up programming. I will always love my brother but know it would be too toxic to ever have him around me or my family. I imagine (or project) this onto the Data/Lore dynamic.

 

[DonIago]

I think the jury's still out on whether Lore ever really truly saw himself as broken, or whether he would just say it to manipulate people.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I think the jury's still out on whether Lore ever really truly saw himself as broken, or whether he would just say it to manipulate people.

After just having watched "Brothers," I really don't see how the jury could be out on the point of Lore feeling "broken." To say it is actually demeans and devalues Brent Spiner incredible performance. His ability to communicate such humanizing vulnerability and the pain that motivates Lore's evil. It's a wonderfully sympathetic tour-de-force.

 

[DonIago]

Yes, which is exactly what Lore would do in order to manipulate Data and Soong.

"Poor me" is a classic method of establishing control of a situation.

 

[Paradise City]

Lore feeling he's insecure but using those insecurities to manipulate others are not mutually exclusive things.

 

[DonIago]

Yep. "Poor me" people often do indeed feel they deserve the sympathies of others; some just more consciously use that as a tool of manipulation than others.

I'm trying to remember the other three methods of establishing control, but I'm only remembering Intimidation and Interrogation.

ETA - Ah ha! Aloof!

Read more about it here: https://www.celestinevision.com/2015/05/spirituality/struggle-power-control-dramas-part-1/

 

[thribs]

Because he feels being the oldest that he is entitled to it more than Data.

 

[Eman1986]

In some ways I really wish that B4 in Nemesis had been Lore, with Data attempting to reform him one last time (if hypothetically had they not destroyed him seasons prior).

It just would have been interesting if the death of Data, and him giving him the gift of his memories had been enough to fix his brother, as unlikely as that is.