Why was the ending of ST 6 changed on the blu-ray?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by locutus1, May 4, 2020.

  1. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    I quite liked seeing the faces of the conspirators, as it reminded people of who all the various players were and added more visual interest to the scene. That shot of Chang mid-transport in particular is great. Showing, not just telling.

    The Colonel West reveal, I can take or leave. I rather like the idea of a turncoat Klingon actually pulling the trigger, as it adds to the idea that it's humans, Klingons, and Romulans all conspiring together. So the Colonel West reveal was unnecessary, IMO.
    Absolutely!
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    Therin of Andor and KennyB like this.
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    He needed a consort because he was actually blind, if I recall. Something else that was glossed over in the theatrical cut (actually, pretty much any cut of the film.)
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Actually the reveal that West is the Assassin makes his attempt to kill the Federation president even more shocking to the audience If a Klingon was shooting the Federation president he wouldn't be killing his own leader. But here you have an actual member of the Federation military killing the Federation president under the guise of being a Klingon which seems like it would if he was spotted with the weapon be more likely to spark a war. Also the reveal that the attempted assassin was a human would go a long way to diffusing Federation anger at the Klingons. Since it was both humans that murdered Gorkon and a disguised human attempting to kill the Federation president that clearly would have taking all appetite for war from Starfleet and the Federation.
    At any rate the extended version of Star Trek 6 is the only version that I'll ever watch. It would be nice if we could get a carefully restored version of Star Trek released in high-definition with both versions of the movie. Or even all three.
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  4. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    The cuts that were made were the things that Gene Roddenberry most strenuously objected to. He hated the idea that the actual assassin would be a traitorous member of Starfleet. After he saw a rough cut of the movie in October of 1991 he shot off a memo demanding wholesale changes to the movie. Then within 72 hours he had died. I think Paramount used his memo as an excuse to force Nicholas Meyer to trim a few more minutes out of the movie as they had done at the last minute with about three minutes of footage from Wrath of Khan. So maybe out of deference to the late great creator of Star Trek he pulled out those few minutes that mostly made Starfleet and the Federation look bad or MORE bad then they already were.
    I'm glad that the theatrical cut is now available for people to own. And hopefully someday we can get all the versions out there in the highest quality. I find it amazing that some people actually prefer that only their favorite version of the movie be available as if that justifies their position but that version is the best rather than hoping for everybody to get there preferred version in high quality.
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Or then we can enjoy the mirroring there, with a Klingon the principal force in the assassination of the Klingon leader, and a human the true perpetrator of the attempt against the Federation one, initial appearances to the contrary.

    I rather like the version with the Scooby-Doo reveal but without the faces of the conspirators - but I do find satisfaction in how Chang's face was presented in the exposition flashes. Now remind me, are those the only thing that makes the name Nanclus canon... Or do other cuts of the movie also feature the part of the President's Office scene where the name gets mentioned, without featuring the flashes?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  6. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    You make a good argument for the Col. West version. I'm fine with both versions, but I suppose the "pulling off the rubber mask" bit makes the Col. West ending play a little cheesier than intended.
    It seems that for the last decade or two of his life, most of Roddenberry's input actively made stories worse. In the TNG Companion, the original stories they described always sounded more intriguing than what actually ended up on screen (I'm thinking in particular of "Conspiracy" and "Elementary Dear Data.") I'm glad that Meyer discounted most of GR's suggestions, quite frankly.
     
    Vger23 and Grant like this.
  7. Elder Knight

    Elder Knight Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    SE USA
    My theory is that West was the Starfleet admiral in charge of catering. He was a Kentucky Colonel. Nobody took his input seriously, which is why he rebelled.
     
    ChallengerHK and Therin of Andor like this.
  8. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    If I'm not mistaken all versions of the movie contain the line from the Federation president that says

    " what is the romulan governments position on this matter Ambassador Nanclus?"
     
    Timo and Therin of Andor like this.
  9. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Yeah, the only indication were his unusual eyeglasses, briefly seen, which probably worked a bit like Geordi's visor? It seemed to pick up on a fan theory (or vice versa?) that the Saratoga's Efrosian's helmsman in ST IV was also blind, at least in certain lighting. ie. he could see well in the red emergency lighting when the whale probe approached.

    I think the theatrical version clips off "Nanclus"? I think getting the flashback of him into Valeris's mind meld, and naming him, was supposed to clarify he was in the conspiracy. (Of course, we had seen him observing the explanation of the secret "Operation: Retrieve" in the VHS version.)

    For me, I think it is interesting that the Romulans and Vulcans are with Sarek and all are wearing yellow sashes, while all the other Federation races are wearing blue sashes. Indicating that a Unification had already been attempted?

    I had the chance to ask Ernie Over, GR's carer and chauffeur, about this rumoured memo. Ernie suggested that Gene was so frail at this point, he was in no condition to dash off a memo. He had already listed his complaints after reading the shooting script months earlier. GR's only comment after watching the work print (with Ernie) was supposedly, "I am sure that the fans will enjoy it."
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  10. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    No I'm almost certain that Federation president says his name it's all the same exact scene until after the Federation President says "This President is not above the law." That's the point where the extended version Cuts in
     
  11. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    They also say his name during the mind meld in all versions except the Special Collector's Edition. (Where his name is trimmed out in favor of cutting to a shot of him.)

    You can also see Kurtwood "acting blind" for a few moments after the assassination attempt.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  12. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    I agree Roddenberry was too frail to sit down and Pen a long memo.
    The story I have heard for ages is that he came out of the screening people ask him how he liked it he gave a thumbs-up then he went home and dictated a memo about all the things he thought should be cut out and when they looked at the memo they said that was like 40 minutes worth of the movie. But they did end up cutting out some of the things that I'm pretty sure he would have most objected to which is the operation retrieve scene and the scene where West is revealed to be the actual person attempting to kill the Federation president. I guess unless somebody who was actually there back then clarifies it it will never be certain
     
  13. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    Which also explains why Kirk says, "Kirk. Enterprise." right after he tackles the President. If the President was blind, he'd have NO IDEA who just knocked him over, or why.

    I've seen STVI dozens of times over the last 29(!) years, and I first read that the UFP President was originally intended to be blind at least a dozen years ago, but I didn't put it together exactly why Kirk verbally identifies himself in that scene until just a few months ago.
     
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    And Ernie said that did not happen.
     
  15. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    All hail Ernie
     
  16. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Location:
    Peach Wookiee
    locutus1, we've all had a moment where we've experienced something called the Mandala Effect. So take a step back and chuckle at yourself. Put your shields down and relax. This is a friendly reminder to remember how to post here. I'm hoping that you're not here to troll.
     
  17. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Location:
    Configuring the Ontarian Manifold
    They weren't in the theatrical release. I saw the movie on opening day in Toronto in December 1991, and then about six more times before it left theatres. Guaranteed they weren't there. I was surprised to see them on the VHS release, and remember telling my friend who was watching "Hey, these are new!".

    I've never seen the flashback faces, however, probably because I don't have the movies on DVD/BluRay.
     
    Therin of Andor and Grant like this.
  18. gottacook

    gottacook Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Location:
    Maryland
    Just to be clear: Rene's character wasn't in the theatrical version at all. (I saw it in the theater in 1991 and have the VHS with his "Colonel West" scenes, first as himself and later disguised as a Klingon.)
     
    Vger23 likes this.
  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Correct. In the theatrical version we're just supposed to think that the assassin was an actual Klingon.
     
  20. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016

    Yup, textbook definition of a Mandela Effect. I've seen these arguments so many times on Mandela discussion boards.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.