Why Was Equinox So Bad?

[jpch]

im not gonna argue about Cpt Rudy...he knew exactly what he was doing...go watch the episode again and its clearly a repulsive mass murder...

What i am gonna Discuss is your borg argument.

1/ The Sphere was heavily damaged,Voy tried to steal a transwarp coil to get home faster...coz at the start of the episode the borg considered them a threat and wanted to assimilate them <.<

conclusion? Borg are hostile. the creatures that have been transformed into fuel are cute flying peaceful things considered spirits of good fortune by the Ankari race.

2/ Janeway shot 1 Borg Drone -.-. 1 drone got shot and there is no evidence he died...we all know how much the borg regenerate or maybe the weapons were on stun...

3/ how exactly did you see 1000 drones dying ?


4/ XD you must be one hell of a Voyager hater to compare shooting 1 evil Borg drone by Janeway to a Mass murder of a peaceful race done by Rudy. LOL

i just have 1 hope that people one day would stop criticizing Voy without getting all their facts straight.

 

[jpch]

I suspect that if the Equinox crew really looked upon the aliens as nonsentient, then they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to hide their new propulsion and would have dangled it before the crew to get them to push Janeway to add it to her engine room.

That is a very logical point finishes the entire argument

 

[exodus]

Ok, so the crew of the Equinox were killing 100s of creatures in order to shorten their journey home...

Now unless I am mistaken, they did not know that the creatures were sentient, they thought they were just like wolves, who attacked in response to the Equinox crew killing them...

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning what they did, but Voyager attacked a Borg Sphere without provocation just a few episodes previous, in order to harvest a component to help them get home...in the process hundreds of Borg Drones died, but a Borg Drone is someone who has been enslaved to the will of the collective and who could be saved or else would not have died but for Voyager attacking them...

Why is one right but the other wrong?

Wouldn't you rather be dead than be a slave?
Death is freedom.

 

[Killandra]

I suspect that if the Equinox crew really looked upon the aliens as nonsentient, then they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to hide their new propulsion and would have dangled it before the crew to get them to push Janeway to add it to her engine room.

That is a very logical point finishes the entire argument

I also would have to agree. The truth of the matter is there are some situations that we wouldn't know what we'd do until faced with those circumstances, especially when it comes to survival. We all like Janeway, would hope we wouldn't result to Equinox's actions and would be appalled by them, but honestly, I can't say whether or not I'd do the same as Ransom and his crew. For survival, look at how many people have resulted to cannibalism...*shrug*

 

[exodus]

I suspect that if the Equinox crew really looked upon the aliens as nonsentient, then they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to hide their new propulsion and would have dangled it before the crew to get them to push Janeway to add it to her engine room.

That is a very logical point finishes the entire argument

I also would have to agree. The truth of the matter is there are some situations that we wouldn't know what we'd do until faced with those circumstances, especially when it comes to survival. We all like Janeway, would hope we wouldn't result to Equinox's actions and would be appalled by them, but honestly, I can't say whether or not I'd do the same as Ransom and his crew. For survival, look at how many people have resulted to cannibalism...*shrug*

Exactly.
Ransoms point was right when he told Janeway that she might make the same choices if faced with a starving, dying crew. We've seen how Janeway goes off the rails when under extreme stress. We've seen Janeway become Ransom like in "Endgame"due to her grief of loss.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ransom was only in trouble because he persisted in trying to go home when he clearly should have found an empty planet and set up house.

He lost half his crew in his first month.

Earth is no longer an option.

janeway kept going because she encounted no rough opposition, but there had to be a point where she would have to have stopped and said to her self, I'm not up to this and if I keep going every one I know and love is going to die.

Janeway was no where near such a point.

(She got close in Year of Hell.)

Rudy persisted for 65 months after the point he should have thrown in the towel and he'd dead, and so is 85 percent of the crew he had left after the first insane month.

 

[G2309]

If the aliens weren't sentient why would it be any different than eating the worms in basics? You make a good point guy maybe they were given hope by finding that worm hole.

 

[The_Baroness]

If the aliens weren't sentient why would it be any different than eating the worms in basics? You make a good point guy maybe they were given hope by finding that worm hole.

Well, theres killing to stay alive, and theres killing to make your life a bit easier.

I suppose it's similar to how most people don't have a problem with eating meat, but they do with killing an animal just to make a coat from their fur. Braxton had the option to settle on a planet, or to head home at normal-warp speed like Janeway. Sure, it was gonna be tough either way, but it was do-able. He chose to make his journey quicker by slaughtering a bunch of wibbly beasts, which in turn, made his journey alot more difficult than it would have been otherwise.

 

[Anwar]

Ransom, not Braxton. Braxton was the time captain.

 

[Sandoval]

Somehow I would've expected Voyager finding another Starfleet ship to be more of an event than it was - clearly this concept was always an ace hidden up the sleeves of the producers since day one, I think a hell of a lot more could've been done with it.

Mind you those nucleogenic beasties really do wonders for a Starfleet warp engine. When you consider that Voyager made several big jumps in the years before it happened upon the Equinox yet the two ships were in the same place at the end of 2375:

10,000LY in The Gift
300LY in Hope and Fear
2,500LY in Night
20,000LY in Dark Frontier

Factor in the 'normal' progress Voyager was making that's almost 35,000LY that the Equinox managed to cover, largely it would seem down to stoking the warp engines with those creatures - forget quantum slipstream or transwarp coils.

Stuff it, I think I'd throw a few of them on the fire as well.

 

[Relayer1]

Equinox was so bad because it did not set up the seasons long character developing 'integrating the Equinox staff into the Voyager crew' arc it required, in the same way as they didn't do the necessary 'integrating the Maquis' stuff over the first few seasons.

 

[tighr]

Factor in the 'normal' progress Voyager was making that's almost 35,000LY that the Equinox managed to cover, largely it would seem down to stoking the warp engines with those creatures - forget quantum slipstream or transwarp coils.

Ordinarily you would think that, and your math works out. However, the actual plot of the episodes doesn't seem to support that (plothole). Voyager was able to track down the race that introduced Equinox to the inter-spatial aliens. If Equinox had been jumping around 1000ly at a time, how the hell was Voyager able to track down the race that gave them the technology? None of it made sense.

 

[DonIago]

They cut the scene where Janeway discreetly pulps a few of the aliens so Voyager can backtrack to the pied piper planet.

 

[The_Baroness]

Ransom, not Braxton. Braxton was the time captain.

Ah yes! My bad! I knew that too....

 

[The_Baroness]

Factor in the 'normal' progress Voyager was making that's almost 35,000LY that the Equinox managed to cover, largely it would seem down to stoking the warp engines with those creatures - forget quantum slipstream or transwarp coils.

Ordinarily you would think that, and your math works out. However, the actual plot of the episodes doesn't seem to support that (plothole). Voyager was able to track down the race that introduced Equinox to the inter-spatial aliens. If Equinox had been jumping around 1000ly at a time, how the hell was Voyager able to track down the race that gave them the technology? None of it made sense.

Which suggests that Ransom had only fairly recently come across those aliens, so how in the hell did he get so far without them?

To be honest the worst thing about Equinox is that they pronounce it "Eee-quinox" and not "Eh-quinox" and it gets me doing the same. *grump*

 

[Disruptor]

I haven't seen the episodes in years, but when I hear about the nucleogenic aliens I always seem to think of Watto from Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.

And I'd kill the crap out of Watto to fuel my ship!

 

[exodus]

Somehow I would've expected Voyager finding another Starfleet ship to be more of an event than it was - clearly this concept was always an ace hidden up the sleeves of the producers since day one, I think a hell of a lot more could've been done with it.

Mind you those nucleogenic beasties really do wonders for a Starfleet warp engine. When you consider that Voyager made several big jumps in the years before it happened upon the Equinox yet the two ships were in the same place at the end of 2375:

10,000LY in The Gift
300LY in Hope and Fear
2,500LY in Night
20,000LY in Dark Frontier

Factor in the 'normal' progress Voyager was making that's almost 35,000LY that the Equinox managed to cover, largely it would seem down to stoking the warp engines with those creatures - forget quantum slipstream or transwarp coils.

Stuff it, I think I'd throw a few of them on the fire as well.

Good points but factor in the amount of times Voyager had to retrace their steps to rescue somebody.....and oddly the off screen times they had to touch down to repair the ship. I assumed Equinox never went back for anybody, clean never/couldn't stop to repair the ship. So IMO, for them they were continuously jumping ahead.

Ordinarily you would think that, and your math works out. However, the actual plot of the episodes doesn't seem to support that (plothole). Voyager was able to track down the race that introduced Equinox to the inter-spatial aliens. If Equinox had been jumping around 1000ly at a time, how the hell was Voyager able to track down the race that gave them the technology? None of it made sense.

Voyager wouldn't have to travel back to the place of origin to make contact with that species. Didn't Ransom say that culture worshiped them as God's? If so, all you would have to do is track down one member of the species who's a trader that carried the "religious" device to summon them. Assuming none of that culture is Athists, all of them should be carrying one.

To be honest the worst thing about Equinox is that they pronounce it "Eee-quinox" and not "Eh-quinox" and it gets me doing the same. *grump*

American regional pronunciation, I would assume.
Much like how here in NYC "this" is pronounced "dis".

​

 

[JB2005]

Ok, so the crew of the Equinox were killing 100s of creatures in order to shorten their journey home...

Now unless I am mistaken, they did not know that the creatures were sentient, they thought they were just like wolves, who attacked in response to the Equinox crew killing them...

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning what they did, but Voyager attacked a Borg Sphere without provocation just a few episodes previous, in order to harvest a component to help them get home...in the process hundreds of Borg Drones died, but a Borg Drone is someone who has been enslaved to the will of the collective and who could be saved or else would not have died but for Voyager attacking them...

Why is one right but the other wrong?

Wouldn't you rather be dead than be a slave?
Death is freedom.

A death which you are imposing on them without knowing their wishes...not saying you're wrong, just saying that you go from the imposition of slavery to the imposition of death...

 

[exodus]

Ok, so the crew of the Equinox were killing 100s of creatures in order to shorten their journey home...

Now unless I am mistaken, they did not know that the creatures were sentient, they thought they were just like wolves, who attacked in response to the Equinox crew killing them...

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning what they did, but Voyager attacked a Borg Sphere without provocation just a few episodes previous, in order to harvest a component to help them get home...in the process hundreds of Borg Drones died, but a Borg Drone is someone who has been enslaved to the will of the collective and who could be saved or else would not have died but for Voyager attacking them...

Why is one right but the other wrong?

Wouldn't you rather be dead than be a slave?
Death is freedom.

A death which you are imposing on them without knowing their wishes...not saying you're wrong, just saying that you go from the imposition of slavery to the imposition of death...

If the Borg are a hive mind, then they have no individual wishes or desires. We've seen from Seven and Hugh, that newly severed drones only wish is to return to slavery. Are you really imposing anything on someone that's lost the the ability to think rationally for themselves? No matter how much Seven tries to regain her humanity, she will always have a damaged psyche due to being bent to the Borg's will. She is still 7of9 and not Annika because she knows this. Picard is still messed up from his assimilation. You can never fully save someone that's been a drone for a period of time.

 

[T'Girl]

Equinox was so bad because it did not set up the seasons long character developing 'integrating the Equinox staff into the Voyager crew' arc it required, in the same way as they didn't do the necessary 'integrating the Maquis' stuff over the first few seasons.

The only time they did this, and honestly did it right, was with Seven.