Yes, entitled to some fresh air. You don't think a living being is entitled to some real air, outside of an enclosed starship once in a while?
Why was Enterprise received so poorly?
- Thread starter dcm
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Yes, entitled to some fresh air. You don't think a living being is entitled to some real air, outside of an enclosed starship once in a while?
And they were given the genome of the entire crew and Porthos. As Archer said, they could have told him to keep Porthos on board.
I never said that. But the Kreetasans are ridiculous people who have proven to be unreasonable pricks when they want to be.
Look at their first appearance in "VOX SOLA". They get offended and storm off the ship without even bothering to say why they are offended (after being asked multiple times) and when the crew does find them again, they say it was because of the crew eating... which is exactly what they themselves do, only not in public. But they expected the crew to know this was a taboo without them actually saying anything?
If someone was doing or saying something that offended you without them knowing it was offensive to you, what is the more reasonable thing to do? Storm off without giving ANY hint of why you were offended, even after multiple attempts of that person asking what the issue is and trying to apologize, but you don't even bother to try to hear it? Or letting that person know you were offended by that action or word or whatever, and give them a chance to apologize and try not to do that again?
Honestly, they give off the appearance of a race who just gets off on being 'offended' and making other people apologize to them all the time.
And frankly, the more I write about that species, the more I see them as unreasonable pricks.
Perhaps in their culture it's considered even more distasteful to tell someone why they've offended you?
It sounds to me a bit as though you're applying human cultural norms to an alien civilization.
But to get back to the original point, nobody on Enterprise is "entitled" to fresh air, especially fresh air on a planet belonging to an alien civilization...that's the kind of sentiment I'd expect to hear from an expansionist civilization that didn't care about the rights of others. The Kreetassans could have refused Our Heroes permission to visit their planet and would have been well within their rights to do so.
As for them not anticipating Porthos getting sick, maybe they overlooked something, maybe they didn't have the information they needed, or maybe it was something nobody could have anticipated. "We sent them a copy of our genome" is hardly carte blanche to assume that all potential outcomes have been accounted for.
This reminds me of "Justice", where a century later our presumably more evolved heroes somehow fail to anticipate that one of their own could end up facing the death penalty despite the laws not being a secret. And yet, while Our Heroes do protest the laws in that episode, I don't recall them at any point blaming the aliens for their own failures.
It sounds to me a bit as though you're applying human cultural norms to an alien civilization.
But to get back to the original point, nobody on Enterprise is "entitled" to fresh air, especially fresh air on a planet belonging to an alien civilization...that's the kind of sentiment I'd expect to hear from an expansionist civilization that didn't care about the rights of others. The Kreetassans could have refused Our Heroes permission to visit their planet and would have been well within their rights to do so.
As for them not anticipating Porthos getting sick, maybe they overlooked something, maybe they didn't have the information they needed, or maybe it was something nobody could have anticipated. "We sent them a copy of our genome" is hardly carte blanche to assume that all potential outcomes have been accounted for.
This reminds me of "Justice", where a century later our presumably more evolved heroes somehow fail to anticipate that one of their own could end up facing the death penalty despite the laws not being a secret. And yet, while Our Heroes do protest the laws in that episode, I don't recall them at any point blaming the aliens for their own failures.
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I don't think it's just humans who have let others know if they've been offended or not. We've seen countless examples of other races letting others know that they were offended, so no, I'm not applying a human view to them, though I can see how it may appear that way based on my question.
And when I mention that they could have told Archer to keep Porthos on board, it wasn't because it was to prevent him from getting sick. (Though he wouldn't have gotten sick in the first place.) I say it because if you don't want someone else's pet in your house, for whatever reason, when they come over, you tell them to keep the pet home.
I think we'll just end up agreeing to disagree about this episode.
I was born in '76 and grew up TOS reruns, the TOS films, TNG, DS9, and some VGR, the latter of which I missed a lot of when I went to college.
By the time I finished college, Voyager was in its sixth season and I'd caught up on some of the past episodes here and there but was still largely unimpressed with VGR as a whole. The notion of a prequel was intriguing to me as I was sick of the 24th century and felt that DS9 (my favorite Trek series after TOS) did the most that could be done with that era. It felt to me that it was time to move on, either forward (fifty to seventy years into the future) or into the past.
I purchased a computer with graduation gift money and followed the development of ENT closely. I was initially unhappy with the name of the show (I'll get to why later) and the design of the NX-01 (and her registry, but that's a nitpick) but was looking forward to the promised changes and "new life" that would be breathed into Star Trek.
I stuck with the show through all four seasons, even though I looked forward to other shows of the era more, especially BSG and Firefly. These two series contained a lot that I thought ENT should have and that my beloved TOS era had in spades: richly drawn characters played by actors who truly brought them to life, well-crafted narratives and compelling storytelling. ENT had little to none of these but I kept watching.
When it was all done, I felt a great sadness. I, like many others, wrote to Les Moonves to try and get the show moved to another network. My sadness was not that ENT was ending but that it had never been what I felt (and what many others felt) it should have been.
One of the things I love about the TOS characters and era is the feeling that, despite the span of centuries, humans are still human and even aliens share decidedly human characteristics. The Trek world was one I wanted to live in and one that also felt dangerous and foreign. The characters and their camaraderie is what drove the show for me.
I felt that any series set a significant amount of time before TOS should have featured even more human characters in a setting that was still fascinating and compelling but also dangerous. To me, if the series was going to be set before the founding of the Federation, it needed to feature what was originally teased: a true prequel. No phasers, no photon torpedoes, and certainly no transporters. I also felt the ship shouldn't look anything like a Star Trek ship except for the nacelles, leaving the saucer section as a concept later developed by the UFP members at the beginning of the Federation's post-Romulan War life.
I wanted a show set on a ship that looked like the Conestoga from "Terra Nova," cramped quarters and a real sense of being "out there." The name didn't matter to me all that much, though I felt "Enterprise" should have been reserved for the NCC-1701. My pick would have been another shuttle name, "Endeavour," which is almost as grand and adventurous name as "Enterprise," not to mention its connection to Captain Cook's ship of exploration.
All of that aside, I'd have just been satisfied with a show that didn't feel like a continuation of the 24th century in any way. I was tired of it all, from the endless "foreheads of the week" aliens to the political landscape to the tech that now bordered on science fantasy. I was hoping that ENT would be closer to hard science fiction, with characters closer to humans in the early 21st century: flawed, damaged, even, but resolute in continuing "the human adventure." We'd see humans meeting Andorians and Tellarites for the first time and their early relationship with Vulcans.
Instead, two guys who admitted to TV Guide that they shouldn't be doing the show gave us a largely tired, dull, and lifeless prequel in name only. The writing failed the capabilities of a strong cast and abandoned the rich potential of a pre-Trek Trek.
Star Trek was definitely dead, and to this fan, it has never returned, neither on film or on TV (ugh).
By the time I finished college, Voyager was in its sixth season and I'd caught up on some of the past episodes here and there but was still largely unimpressed with VGR as a whole. The notion of a prequel was intriguing to me as I was sick of the 24th century and felt that DS9 (my favorite Trek series after TOS) did the most that could be done with that era. It felt to me that it was time to move on, either forward (fifty to seventy years into the future) or into the past.
I purchased a computer with graduation gift money and followed the development of ENT closely. I was initially unhappy with the name of the show (I'll get to why later) and the design of the NX-01 (and her registry, but that's a nitpick) but was looking forward to the promised changes and "new life" that would be breathed into Star Trek.
I stuck with the show through all four seasons, even though I looked forward to other shows of the era more, especially BSG and Firefly. These two series contained a lot that I thought ENT should have and that my beloved TOS era had in spades: richly drawn characters played by actors who truly brought them to life, well-crafted narratives and compelling storytelling. ENT had little to none of these but I kept watching.
When it was all done, I felt a great sadness. I, like many others, wrote to Les Moonves to try and get the show moved to another network. My sadness was not that ENT was ending but that it had never been what I felt (and what many others felt) it should have been.
One of the things I love about the TOS characters and era is the feeling that, despite the span of centuries, humans are still human and even aliens share decidedly human characteristics. The Trek world was one I wanted to live in and one that also felt dangerous and foreign. The characters and their camaraderie is what drove the show for me.
I felt that any series set a significant amount of time before TOS should have featured even more human characters in a setting that was still fascinating and compelling but also dangerous. To me, if the series was going to be set before the founding of the Federation, it needed to feature what was originally teased: a true prequel. No phasers, no photon torpedoes, and certainly no transporters. I also felt the ship shouldn't look anything like a Star Trek ship except for the nacelles, leaving the saucer section as a concept later developed by the UFP members at the beginning of the Federation's post-Romulan War life.
I wanted a show set on a ship that looked like the Conestoga from "Terra Nova," cramped quarters and a real sense of being "out there." The name didn't matter to me all that much, though I felt "Enterprise" should have been reserved for the NCC-1701. My pick would have been another shuttle name, "Endeavour," which is almost as grand and adventurous name as "Enterprise," not to mention its connection to Captain Cook's ship of exploration.
All of that aside, I'd have just been satisfied with a show that didn't feel like a continuation of the 24th century in any way. I was tired of it all, from the endless "foreheads of the week" aliens to the political landscape to the tech that now bordered on science fantasy. I was hoping that ENT would be closer to hard science fiction, with characters closer to humans in the early 21st century: flawed, damaged, even, but resolute in continuing "the human adventure." We'd see humans meeting Andorians and Tellarites for the first time and their early relationship with Vulcans.
Instead, two guys who admitted to TV Guide that they shouldn't be doing the show gave us a largely tired, dull, and lifeless prequel in name only. The writing failed the capabilities of a strong cast and abandoned the rich potential of a pre-Trek Trek.
Star Trek was definitely dead, and to this fan, it has never returned, neither on film or on TV (ugh).
I think most of all it suffered from being forced into too many places and directions by outside power.
After Voyager, Berman wanted a year out for himself and Trek. Some breathing space. But, the higher ups wanted Trek in continuous production. So, they said, do it or we will get someone else to do it.
So you’ve got Braga, Berman etc. exhausted and stuck between a rock and a hard place.
They had ideas and the ideas could have been pretty good. Berman wanted Season 1 to be largely Earthbound. In Starfleet HQ, politicking with Vulcans all in order to finally get the NX-01 out there at the end of the season.
I mean, at least that’s a story, but the idea didn’t fly with execs. They wanted the show to be in space doing Star Trek things.
They almost had the Akira class as the NX-01 forced on them. They were muddled and meddled and just were not given much in terms of creative freedom at the start of ENT. It wasn’t a happy production, with even some actors barely being on speaking terms, and battles battles battles for Berman.
After Voyager, Berman wanted a year out for himself and Trek. Some breathing space. But, the higher ups wanted Trek in continuous production. So, they said, do it or we will get someone else to do it.
So you’ve got Braga, Berman etc. exhausted and stuck between a rock and a hard place.
They had ideas and the ideas could have been pretty good. Berman wanted Season 1 to be largely Earthbound. In Starfleet HQ, politicking with Vulcans all in order to finally get the NX-01 out there at the end of the season.
I mean, at least that’s a story, but the idea didn’t fly with execs. They wanted the show to be in space doing Star Trek things.
They almost had the Akira class as the NX-01 forced on them. They were muddled and meddled and just were not given much in terms of creative freedom at the start of ENT. It wasn’t a happy production, with even some actors barely being on speaking terms, and battles battles battles for Berman.
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I don't really get why a lot of people disliked the Temporal Cold War concept/arc, it is at least a little weird idea but I think also pretty cool, good idea or at least not really/obviously bad idea for a prequel to also involve some elements of really-distant-still future.
This reminds me of Caprica.
I disliked it because it made Enterprise what it should not have been. It should have been a true prequel: more primitive tech, no frickin' transporters, the Federation isn't bootstrapped into existence by time travelers.
And no catsuits.
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It was disliked because it was foisted on Berman & Braga by UPN (or more specifically, UPN didn't think ENT was 'futuristic' enough and ordered them to come up with some other plot besides just the formation of the Federation), and B&B only worked half-assedly on that aspect of the show, because they didn't want it in the first place. Ironically, the ideas behind the TCW lasted far longer than ENT's original premise of the Federation's forming, which was a complete failure.
I wonder what the TCW could've been if BB decided to work with it instead of trying to bury it.
It's not that interesting of a concept. We don't get any stakes beyond being told by one time traveler or another the stakes.
I'd rather see the progression towards warp drive, going out and pioneering, struggling and limitations. The Cold War just felt tacked on because...well, honestly, I don't know it was added on.
Well, if I were in charge, I would have made FutureGuy a Romulan who is trying to change history so that his people win the Earth-Romulan war instead of the humans, and the Federation would then never be formed. I mean, that's what the whole show was supposed to be about: the formation of the Federation, right? So adding a 'futuristic' element of someone from the future trying to prevent that from happening would have made the story a bit more interesting.
A lot of cameos from TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.
Maybe DS9 or VOY. Definitely not TOS, as that would have been quite expensive. And other than Frakes and Sirtis, I don't see any of the other TNG cast interested in that.
Data's actor?
I can see Jean Luc doing a cameo, if its outrageous enough. Dude seems like he'd like having some fun.
Also I forgot their actual names. Sorry
. I'll taking the whippings.
A few key things about the time the show came out:
- The "Star Wars" prequel trilogy was new and ongoing, and making nerds rage, specifically for screwing up the lore
- Over-sexualization of women in the media was the worst of any decade. (I say this as someone who was in high school at the time, and who loves old media from a variety of eras.) And even by the standards of that decade, ENT was extreme
- Diversity was severely lacking in shows with settings where it would've been called for (namely, space-opera)
- Airing in the wake of 911 when anti-Arab racism was everywhere, and during the gay-rights movement, guess which two groups were not included in the new "Star Trek," despite being included in plenty of other shows at the time.
- ENT aired right after "Voyager" finished; "Voyager" had overlapped with DS9, which had overlapped with TNG. It had all gotten very repetitive and Trekkies were long over "the formula."
- "Quantum Leap," Scott Bakula’s other most famous show, was relatively fresh in people's minds; both his character and acting were his vastly more likable in that show, leaving many people baffled by his portrayal as Johnathan Archer
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