Why the Resistance to Starfleet as a Military?

[Anwar]

Maybe not. If they were estranged and Spock wanted to keep it a secret it could just be that he specifically referred to his parents the way he did to keep it a secret from others on the Enterprise.

Or, secrecy to non-Vulcans could just be a Vulcan thing. Remember that even though it would likely endanger missions and lives the Vulcans never bothered letting anyone in Starfleet Medical know about Pon Farr.

 

[T'Girl]

Referring to one’s mother as your “ancestor,” while technically true, is an odd usage of the term, especially for Spock.

The person Spock was referring to as his ancestor was his father.

The whole estranged-father-and-son thing between Sarek and Spock was retconned.

More of a addition that a retcon, since it was never stated that Spock and Sarek had a bright loving relationship before, the introduction of a estrangement didn't actual change anything.

... in at least two TOS first-season episodes -- “The Corbomite Maneuver” and “This Side of Paradise” -- Spock’s parents are referred to in the past tense, as if they’re deceased.

Spock: "I regret not having learned more about this Balok. In some manner he was reminiscent of my father."
Scott: "Then may heaven have helped your mother."
Spock: "Quite the contrary. She considered herself a very fortunate Earth woman."

Spock refers to both Balok and his mother in the past tense here, even though the crew had just heard from Balok moments before. Indicating a possible speech mannerism on Spock's part.

Kirk: "... whose father was a computer and his mother an encyclopedia?"
Spock: "My mother was a teacher. My father an ambassador."

Again the past tense, Spock might also be indicating that teaching was his mother's former occupation. In the paternalistic Vulcan culture, she retired from teaching subsequent to becoming married. In neither passage is Sarek specifically referred to in the past tense nor is there any indication that Sarek is supposedly deceased.

I can say that my own mother was a jet engine mechanic, without any allusion that she is now deceased.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Referring to one’s mother as your “ancestor,” while technically true, is an odd usage of the term, especially for Spock.

The person Spock was referring to as his ancestor was his father.

Yeah, I misremembered the quote. Still it doesnt change my point. One doesn't normally use the term "ancestors" when speaking of their parents. It usally refers to someone more distant.

 

[sbk1234]

^^^Which would fit, since at that time Spock and Sarek had not been speaking for nearly 18 years. It would be like a human being on the outs with his father, and telling people he's dead because of all the hard feelings and not wanting to deal with it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A bit of a stretch. Of course distant in this case would be the number of family members between Spock and this human marrying ancester. Not sure Spock is the type to play such word games.

 

[Vincent Law]

The United Earth (space probe agency), receive two (or three) mentions during TOS. Kirk notifies them of the Antares destruction, not the Federation. The bridge dedication plate on the bridge of the Enterprise B lists the seven divisions that contributed to her construction, the UESPA is one of those listed, so is Starfleet. UESPA is also mention in both ENT and VOY

Speaking of dedication plaques, you do recall that the actual dedication plaque of the original Enterprise refers to her as being Starship class, don't you? Yet this decision was retconned later on and the original Enterprise is now referred to as being a Constitution class ship, with the refit version's dedication plaque and that of the Enterprise-A listing those ships as such. Later in an episode of TNG, Scotty recreates the original Enterprise's bridge as it appeared during TOS. Picard specifically calls it a Constitution class ship.

During the time period of ENT, United Earth was already in existence, Starfleet was established as being, in some fashion, a government organization, per dialog by Admiral Forrester. Kirk, the majority of the times he does so, refers to the Enterprise as a "Earth Ship," and on at least one occasion as a "United Earth Ship." Yes he does refer to it in other ways, but on fewer occasions.

However, since we are bringing the later series into consideration, during this time period the Federation is referred to as existing and the Enterprise is referred to as a Federation starship.

 

[T'Girl]

.

Speaking of dedication plaques, you do recall that the actual dedication plaque of the original Enterprise refers to her as being Starship class, don't you? Yet this decision was retconned later on and the original Enterprise is now referred to as being a Constitution class ship,
The dedication plaque of the original Enterprise was never changed to "Constitution Class," it was consistently "Starship Class" throughout the series.

with the refit version's dedication plaque
I don't remember the Enterprise Refit even having a dedication plaque (or what it might have said), so I'll have to concede to you there.

that of the Enterprise-A listing those ships as such
There are two different dedication plaques for the Enterprise-A (different movies), the first says "Starship Class" and is subsequently replaced with the other which doesn't give a class designation at all. Neither says "Constitution Class."

Later in an episode of TNG, Scotty recreates the original Enterprise's bridge as it appeared during TOS.
The scene of the recreated original Enterprise's bridge was from images of the episodes This Side of Paradise and The Mark of Gideon. There is a dedication plaque visible in the turbolift alcove. Obviously it's the plaque from the orginal series, and yes it said "Starship Class."

Picard specifically calls it a Constitution class ship.
Yes he did, it's a isolated canon reference and admittedly I also refer to it as both a Constitution and a Connie, but the dedication plaques never do. I believe the Franz Joseph blueprints started up with the idea of the class being a Constitution.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Picard specifically calls it a Constitution class ship.
Yes he did, it's a isolated canon reference and admittedly I also refer to it as both a Constitution and a Connie, but the dedication plaques never do. I believe the Franz Joseph blueprints started up with the idea of the class being a Constitution.

It's not readable by any means, but the actual first use of the term Constitution-class appeared on Scotty's technical journal in "The Trouble With Tribbles" by the TOS art department. Franz Joseph used the term later.

 

[Vincent Law]

The dedication plaque of the original Enterprise was never changed to "Constitution Class," it was consistently "Starship Class" throughout the series.

If you can reach outside of the series, than I certainly can. And the term "starship" has come to be a generic term referring to any ship capable of interstellar travel that is large enough to be considered a ship. And then there is this.

 

[BillJ]

The dedication plaque of the original Enterprise was never changed to "Constitution Class," it was consistently "Starship Class" throughout the series.

If you can reach outside of the series, than I certainly can. And the term "starship" has come to be a generic term referring to any ship capable of interstellar travel that is large enough to be considered a ship. And then there is this.

To be fair that is a big recon, as the Defiant dedication plaque is covered in The Tholian Web. For what it's worth... the Enterprise dedication plaque in Star Trek 2009 reads "Starship Class" as well.

 

[Vincent Law]

Star Trek 2009 is another take on the original series, so that's another matter entirely.

 

[YARN]

Starfleet is obviously a military. We've all seen it.

It is not, however, militaristic. Big difference.

Starfleet is a Military and also Militaristic.

It's just that it offers the insider's (true believer's) view of militarism, rather than the outsider's (the pejorative) view.

We are all now rather pious about the separation of church and state, but Trek is basically blind to separating the military and the state. The captain is an ambassador, negotiator, state-appointed prospector (they're always on the look out for those dilithium crystals and substances like ryetalyn), and military commander.

What makes the pill go down easily is that (1) we would all like to be autonomous and powerful (having these multiple jurisdictions of scientist, foreign lover, diplomat, explorer, etc.) like starship captains and (2) the show emphasizes the heroic nature of our heroic heroes so that we don't feel bad about the concentration of power. The prime directive (which is violated almost as often as it is invoked), for example, eases our consciences about the goodness of our good guys.

Just like Hornblower and Aubrey, Kirk and Picard are master and commander of the far side of the universe. Nick Meyer was not the first to observe that Trek is Hornblower-in-space, but he was quick to note that Trek had no qualms about militaristic solutions to problems.

Another consequence of having the military and state ride in the same boat is that...

Starfleet diplomacy is literally, gunboat diplomacy. True, Starfleet rarely threatened "less developed" worlds with force if they didn't get their way (even though we've ofttimes seen them resort to force when such worlds fail to comply). And yet how many times have we seen the less advanced race feel the need to note that despite the pleasantries of the captain, his words still had a powerful ship backing them up. Who can blame them for thinking that they were engaging in a polite Melian dialogue? It's like the big boss asking you rather sweetly if you wouldn't mind giving him/her a ride home from work. There is no explicit threat if you say no and s/he might even explicitly state that it's no big deal if you say "No." Even so, how many people would nevertheless feel pressured to say "Yes"?

Starships serve two purposes. It exists to (1st) promote/defend the interests of the federation, and (2nd) to engage in scientific exploration (charting stars and observing alien species). The 2nd purpose, of course, is just one variety of the 1st (i.e., the federation is also interested in scientific exploration), and when science duties conflict with military duties, military duties come first. The position of a scientist (who is very often a starfleet officer) aboard a starfleet vessel, therefore, is not unlike that of the inquisitive of Dr. Marturin aboard the HMS Surprise.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think Kirk said it best that Starfleet was "a combined service." Simple. Straight to the point. Covers all the bases.


'Nuff said.

Beautiful. I think that sums things up the best.

I interpreted that line not to mean that Starfleet isn't military, but rather the opposite - that it's the ONLY military in the Federation. Meaning this: the Federation doesn't have an army, navy, air force, etc. - it has only Starfleet. Only one branch.

Especially when you consider that when Kirk told Capt. Christopher that it was in respose to the question of what branch of the military Kirk worked for.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ There is a Federation Naval Patrol (which is non-Starfleet) but that organization is probably more like a Coast Guard.

 

[Sci]

^ There is a Federation Naval Patrol (which is non-Starfleet) but that organization is probably more like a Coast Guard.

The idea that there's a Federation Naval Patrol seems pretty bizarre to me, though. Why would a Federation agency patrol oceans when planetary governments are probably better suited for such a task? Unless the Naval Patrol is strictly for newly-colonized and under-developed worlds that don't yet have their own navies, anyway.

 

[scotpens]

^^ A Federation Navel Patrol? Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[T'Girl]

a Federation Naval Patrol seems pretty bizarre to me

I would guess a reference to some form of a "space navy." While the Federation does seem to employ Starfleet as their general purpose errand boys, a different, separate service wouldn't be impossible. Overlapping agencies, competing organizations. The Federation has (I believe) an intelligence service, which duplicates Starfleet intelligence.

Might be fun if there were a some form of rivalry between Starfleet and the "FNP."

 

[The Wormhole]

^^The Federation Naval Patrol in involved with the ocean, not space. It was referanced in Voyager's Thirty Days as Tom Paris's dream job, where he could explore the oceans as he dreamed of as a boy.

What limited information there is can be read here.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ There is a Federation Naval Patrol (which is non-Starfleet) but that organization is probably more like a Coast Guard.

The idea that there's a Federation Naval Patrol seems pretty bizarre to me, though. Why would a Federation agency patrol oceans when planetary governments are probably better suited for such a task? Unless the Naval Patrol is strictly for newly-colonized and under-developed worlds that don't yet have their own navies, anyway.

I should think the same reason we have a Federal Bureau of Investigations on top of local police forces, the Justice Department on top of District Attorneys, standing land army on top of national guard units, etc.

 

[Destructor]

True, Starfleet rarely threatened "less developed" worlds with force if they didn't get their way (even though we've ofttimes seen them resort to force when such worlds fail to comply).

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to here- when did Starfleet ever execute a military solution to any problem that wasn't already escalated to conflict level by a second party?