Why so much negativity about the RTD?

[The Wormhole]

One thing that I hated (HATED) about the later years of the new series under RTD's guidance was that the Doctor was portrayed as being a bad person. His own doubts and fears about himself were read as being wholly accurate, and Davros's words were repeatedly shown to be more or less accurate.

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

 

[PorthosShadow]

One thing that I hated (HATED) about the later years of the new series under RTD's guidance was that the Doctor was portrayed as being a bad person. His own doubts and fears about himself were read as being wholly accurate, and Davros's words were repeatedly shown to be more or less accurate.

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

I really loved that bit with Gwen because it said so much with so few words. Basically, humanity was giving up it's own children to save it's self and if it was willing to do that then why would the Doctor or anyone save us?

 

[The Wormhole]

One thing that I hated (HATED) about the later years of the new series under RTD's guidance was that the Doctor was portrayed as being a bad person. His own doubts and fears about himself were read as being wholly accurate, and Davros's words were repeatedly shown to be more or less accurate.

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

I really loved that bit with Gwen because it said so much with so few words. Basically, humanity was giving up it's own children to save it's self and if it was willing to do that then why would the Doctor or anyone save us?

It's a good speech, I'm just saying it reminded me of the kind of self-loathing and self-deprication the Doctor would frequently provide.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

I really loved that bit with Gwen because it said so much with so few words. Basically, humanity was giving up it's own children to save it's self and if it was willing to do that then why would the Doctor or anyone save us?

It's a good speech, I'm just saying it reminded me of the kind of self-loathing and self-deprication the Doctor would frequently provide.

Maybe but given it was said by Gwen who before all this trouble started found out she was pregnant it carried more weight.

 

[Starkers]

Well like I say, if Day of the Moon taught us anything its that...

Spoiler: spoiler for day of the moon

a little girl's more of a man about regeneration than Ten was

 

[PorthosShadow]

Well like I say, if Day of the Moon taught us anything its that...

Spoiler: spoiler for day of the moon

a little girl's more of a man about regeneration than Ten was

"When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not"

 

[Sci]

One thing that I hated (HATED) about the later years of the new series under RTD's guidance was that the Doctor was portrayed as being a bad person. His own doubts and fears about himself were read as being wholly accurate, and Davros's words were repeatedly shown to be more or less accurate.

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

I don't think that follows. Gwen wasn't being self-loathing or ashamed of her actions -- she was loathing her people, not herself.

 

[PorthosShadow]

One thing that I hated (HATED) about the later years of the new series under RTD's guidance was that the Doctor was portrayed as being a bad person. His own doubts and fears about himself were read as being wholly accurate, and Davros's words were repeatedly shown to be more or less accurate.

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

I don't think that follows. Gwen wasn't being self-loathing or ashamed of her actions -- she was loathing her people, not herself.

Exactly and I doubt very few people under similar circumstances would say anything different.

 

[starsuperion]

Having the main character(s) become self-loathing and ashamed of their actions seems to be a trait common to RTD's shows. For example, Children of Earth was probably the most involved RTD's been with Torchwood. And it was in Children of Earth that we see the characters basically be self-depricating the way the Doctor is. Hell, Gwen's opening monologue in part 5 about how horrible humanity is basically sounds like something the Doctor would say about himself in the RTD era.

I don't think that follows. Gwen wasn't being self-loathing or ashamed of her actions -- she was loathing her people, not herself.

Exactly and I doubt very few people under similar circumstances would say anything different.

Gwen's self loathing of her "people" can also translate into herself, for she is also a person (human)..

as for the repeated self loathing, and self hatred RTD injected into the doctor's character frequently.. it almost seems like RTD has some skeletons of his own in that closet..what was he ashamed of?

the slitheen...LMAO!

 

[Sci]

I don't think that follows. Gwen wasn't being self-loathing or ashamed of her actions -- she was loathing her people, not herself.

Exactly and I doubt very few people under similar circumstances would say anything different.

Gwen's self loathing of her "people" can also translate into herself, for she is also a person (human)..

I think that's a bit of a stretch. Anyone who's ever lived through a horrific war or atrocity, or who's ever seen their government engaging in large-scale human rights abuses and wondered why the rest of the world didn't stop it, has probably had periods when they've been disgusted with their people or with humanity in general. That doesn't automatically extend to self-loathing, or even to loathing of any particular individual.

 

[Sindatur]

Exactly and I doubt very few people under similar circumstances would say anything different.

Gwen's self loathing of her "people" can also translate into herself, for she is also a person (human)..

I think that's a bit of a stretch. Anyone who's ever lived through a horrific war or atrocity, or who's ever seen their government engaging in large-scale human rights abuses and wondered why the rest of the world didn't stop it, has probably had periods when they've been disgusted with their people or with humanity in general. That doesn't automatically extend to self-loathing, or even to loathing of any particular individual.

Yea, if anything, I would think, in order to be ashamed of being part of a race, you pretty much have to feel you're better than most at whatever, you are disgusted with the rest of your race for. Can't really imagine someone self Loathing, loathing the race as a whole

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe "self-loathing" isn't quite the most accurate term. The monologue in part 5 made it clear that Gwen was sick of the humanity's actions during the recent events, and by extension he was sickened to be of the same species as these people. Self-loathing is the closest term I can think of with my limited education. Perhaps an intellectual heavyweight around here can apply a more appropriate term?

 

[Sci]

Maybe "self-loathing" isn't quite the most accurate term. The monologue in part 5 made it clear that Gwen was sick of the humanity's actions during the recent events, and by extension he was sickened to be of the same species as these people. Self-loathing is the closest term I can think of with my limited education. Perhaps an intellectual heavyweight around here can apply a more appropriate term?

Misanthropy.

 

[Starkers]

Well it isn't like Gwen didn't have a lot of self loathing in Series 1 of Torchwood...but then everyone in series 1 seemed to hate themselves!

 

[starsuperion]

RTD has his own hangups..it is evident in some of his writing, and his personal comments..I like RTD don't get me wrong, but there are things about him on a separate line, that just don't sit well with me..much of which has made it's way into the Torchwood saga.. what is strange is that they denigrate God and Religion, however, demons from the beyond and dark of nothingness are real? My POV is that if a big ass demon who feeds on people's souls is real, then why not God?

 

[Sci]

RTD has his own hangups..it is evident in some of his writing, and his personal comments..I like RTD don't get me wrong, but there are things about him on a separate line, that just don't sit well with me..much of which has made it's way into the Torchwood saga.. what is strange is that they denigrate God and Religion, however, demons from the beyond and dark of nothingness are real? My POV is that if a big ass demon who feeds on people's souls is real, then why not God?

Presumably because it's not actually a demon, but rather an alien lifeform that inspired demonic legends. And I don't think that characterizing God as just an alien lifeform that inspired godly legends would be all that much better, from a theistic POV.

 

[starsuperion]

RTD has his own hangups..it is evident in some of his writing, and his personal comments..I like RTD don't get me wrong, but there are things about him on a separate line, that just don't sit well with me..much of which has made it's way into the Torchwood saga.. what is strange is that they denigrate God and Religion, however, demons from the beyond and dark of nothingness are real? My POV is that if a big ass demon who feeds on people's souls is real, then why not God?

Presumably because it's not actually a demon, but rather an alien lifeform that inspired demonic legends. And I don't think that characterizing God as just an alien lifeform that inspired godly legends would be all that much better, from a theistic POV.

well which one are you referring to? The one from the "Impossible Planet" or the One from Torchwood? It would seem to me that in the Theistic stance of religion, the demons in either show could conform to the mythology behind God and Hell, and so on..what gets me is there was mention of no afterlife, repeatedly, however from that nothing came those demons in Torchwood.. so if there was nothing in the dark, then how could owen experience said nothing, and what were those demons doing in "nothing?" How could they manifest from nothing, if he wasn't in the afterlife..

then again, Owen has killed plenty of people.. maybe he wasn't in heaven, or the concept there of.. maybe when Jack passes on, he only sees the same dark as well..because he hasn't reached enlightenment of some sort..

who knows.. it remains to be seen if the atheistic philosophy of the Previous Torchwood seasons will emerge once again in the writing of the new series..

it just seems to me that RTD is conflicted on that issue..

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

well which one are you referring to? The one from the "Impossible Planet" or the One from Torchwood? It would seem to me that in the Theistic stance of religion, the demons in either show could conform to the mythology behind God and Hell, and so on..what gets me is there was mention of no afterlife, repeatedly, however from that nothing came those demons in Torchwood.. so if there was nothing in the dark, then how could owen experience said nothing, and what were those demons doing in "nothing?" How could they manifest from nothing, if he wasn't in the afterlife..

then again, Owen has killed plenty of people.. maybe he wasn't in heaven, or the concept there of.. maybe when Jack passes on, he only sees the same dark as well..because he hasn't reached enlightenment of some sort..

who knows.. it remains to be seen if the atheistic philosophy of the Previous Torchwood seasons will emerge once again in the writing of the new series..

it just seems to me that RTD is conflicted on that issue..

I think it's much simpler than that: there is no afterlife, and demons are aliens. There.

 

[Sci]

well which one are you referring to? The one from the "Impossible Planet" or the One from Torchwood?

Both. Neither is a demon, both are aliens.

what gets me is there was mention of no afterlife, repeatedly, however from that nothing came those demons in Torchwood..

It's been a while since I've watched "Captain Jack Harkness"/"End of Days," but I would take the references to the "demon" in Torchwood being from "nothing" as being symbolic. More like, it was from an alternate dimension or some such realm whose nature defies Human comprehension.

then again, Owen has killed plenty of people.. maybe he wasn't in heaven, or the concept there of.. maybe when Jack passes on, he only sees the same dark as well..because he hasn't reached enlightenment of some sort..

I think it's pretty clear that the intent was simply that there is no afterlife, that all consciousness ceased upon brain death and that later revival left the subject with no memories to draw upon of his death, since his mind ceased to exist because there was no brain activity anymore.

 

[PorthosShadow]

I think it's pretty clear that the intent was simply that there is no afterlife, that all consciousness ceased upon brain death and that later revival left the subject with no memories to draw upon of his death, since his mind ceased to exist because there was no brain activity anymore.

What the end of "Random Shoes" where Eugene's soul or consciousness was ascending upwards?