Why is the Trek community so negative about Voyager?

[Servo]

If this were true don't you think this thread would have been shut a long time ago? Threads discussing VOY'S faults are always welcome. The only problem is they usually devolve into nasty bitching fests and get locked.

And yet my attempts at a civil discussion about the show were met with dismissal, quickly followed by a patronising tone and the mod card, by your ignorant co-mod.
It would have been childish enough coming from a normal poster, but coming from a mod, it's even worse. Especially when the mod in question presides over the Voyager forum. It screams of "don't disagree with Janeway or say anything bad about my favourite show, or I'll get all moderator on you".
The fact that she's now decided to flat-out ignore my posts, because she can't debate the issue like a grown-up, is just plain laughable.

Nice advert for your forum.

 

[CaptJamesScott]

After season 3, Voyager should have been renamed The Janeway/Doctor/Seven experiment

 

[Anwar]

So, it's okay for TOS to have only 3 main characters, but not VOY?

 

[CaptJamesScott]

I'm not sure Star Trek could exist successfully in today's television landscape. The show is based upon the premise that humanity has evolved past most of their problems, and that we all live in a tranquil, Utopian, paradise free of violence, suffering, vulgarity, ect. Thats all well and good, but not many people can relate to it in the 21st century. DS9 was able to get away with this because it's setting wasn't completely Federation. Just my opinion

 

[CaptJamesScott]

So, it's okay for TOS to have only 3 main characters, but not VOY?

The shows are 30 years apart. Television is lightyears (pardon the pun) different than it was then. Nowhere near as much character development.

 

[BillJ]

So, it's okay for TOS to have only 3 main characters, but not VOY?

Different time... different show.

Star Trek only had two listed stars in season 1 (Shatner and Nimoy) and three for seasons 2 and 3 (adding Kelley). Those three were the main characters. Voyager lists all its' actors as being stars in the opening credits. So when you only feature two or three it leaves the audience scratching its' collective head.

Did Tuvok, Paris, Torres or Neelix really need to be regular characters?

 

[BillJ]

The show is based upon the premise that humanity has evolved past most of their problems, and that we all live in a tranquil, Utopian, paradise free of violence, suffering, vulgarity, ect. Thats all well and good, but not many people can relate to it in the 21st century.

Actually, that premise didn't surface until Star Trek: The Next Generation. Star Trek continued to show a humanity that had its' share of problems. Just that mankind had been able to better its' self to a degree and reach for the stars.

 

[Anwar]

And TNG didn't even adhere to it, since it still maintained the "Nearly every single Starfleet Officer or Federation Official guest-starring on the show will be at odds with the cast and/or a douchebag" plot point from TOS.

And frankly, no I don't think Neelix or Torres needed to be main characters. Paris and Tuvok, yes.

In fact, the core cast of VOY should've been trimmed to Janeway, Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and the Doctor. Torres, Kes, Kim and Neelix should've all been recurring characters.

 

[stj]

^^^Neelix and Kim practically speaking [were recurring characters from the first, so I'm not so sure this would have been helpful.

 

[Anwar]

The writers may not have had to bother writing parts for either of them in some episodes, which would have freed up room for the central characters.

Plus, it would shut up the "More recurring characters!" folks.

 

[RyuRoots]

So, it's okay for TOS to have only 3 main characters, but not VOY?

The point




















Your head.


If VOY had 3 mains from the outset (like ENT) then that's one thing. It's another to start out with a bigger ensemble and then trim down the people who get focused on significantly.

 

[Kai Winn]

you don't need to go back to tos to find similarities. tng became increasingly the picard/data show, especially in the movies. data's adventures with emotion chips were always annoying. ds9 was more balanced perhaps, but i didn't think any of their characters apart from quark and odo could rival janeway, 7, and the doc.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

So, it's okay for TOS to have only 3 main characters, but not VOY?

The shows are 30 years apart. Television is lightyears (pardon the pun) different than it was then. Nowhere near as much character development.

While Voyager was running in the 1990's, the number one syndicated show in the US only had 2 leads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNFLrSVNh48



I don't quite get the point of "2 vs 3 vs X" number of main characters. No-one ever said this show was about 1 or 9 people. Sure, those with their names in the credits look like "costars", but no-one ever said they were equals. Did you think Guinan or Geordie or even GASP Data was as important as Picard? I sure didn't. (And yes, I watched TNG during its first run from beginning to end.)

As for who should/shouldn't be a main character... I look at the dept heads as prime options.

I hated season 1's TNG for its LACK of a main character as chief engineer. I couldn't name that guy if my LIFE depended on it! (I can see him in the background watching Wesley dismantle something "important" in an ep where everyone went off their rocker. Otherwise, I can't remember him at all.) I nearly choked when in season 2 Geordie was promoted from Ensign? Lt jg pilot to CHIEF Engineer, but then reasoned it was better than "nameless dude in the background".

As for the question of not relating to a future where peace reigned... the gap between that ideal and our previous 20th or current 21st century reality is equally vast. But no iteration of Trek was saddled with shows absent of conflict. Those ships move on to other cultures and territories who haven't yet learned to "play nice"... and when they don't move like DS9... they have enough nonFederation citizens visiting to insure strife is never far away from our Officers.

I don't know why some in the Trek community are negative about 1 show over the other... all I know is that I loved TOS, and came to love TNG, and really liked DS9 because it was taped each week by a friend when she taped Voyager for me. That's how I finally got to see the "grittier" Trek on a regular basis. Enterprise had its moments, but it was never a must see for me and I regret that.

Then again, perhaps its been good for all of Trekdom to go on this prolonged fast, so that we stop being jaded about the stories and so the producers/writers stop being hobbled by rules the original producer laid down 44 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNnOeBXAhls

As for how I feel about Voyager, it has been my favorite since the first season through to the final, and that's not hyperbole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHTxQTSjc_M

That's fact.

 

[PsychoPere]

I hated season 1's TNG for its LACK of a main character as chief engineer. I couldn't name that guy if my LIFE depended on it! (I can see him in the background watching Wesley dismantle something "important" in an ep where everyone went off their rocker. Otherwise, I can't remember him at all.)

There wasn't one Chief Engineer during season 1; there were at least 4. Lieutenant Commander Sarah MacDougal ("The Naked Now"), Lieutenant Commander Argyle ("Where No One Has Gone Before," "Datalore," "Lonely Among Us"), Lieutenant Commander Leland Lynch ("Skin of Evil"), and Lieutenant Logan ("The Arsenal of Freedom"). There was also Assistant Chief Engineer Jim Shimoda ("The Naked Now").

I nearly choked when in season 2 Geordie was promoted from Ensign? Lt jg pilot to CHIEF Engineer [...]

Geordi La Forge was a Lieutenant JG in 2364 and promoted to full Lieutenant when he was assigned the position of Chief Engineer onboard the Enterprise in 2365. I don't exactly see why that would be cause for "chok[ing]" in any event.

I don't know why some in the Trek community are negative about 1 show over the other...

There are numerous reasons explicated in this thread. If you don't know why some people are negative about this show, perhaps you should try reading.

That's how I finally got to see the "grittier" Trek on a regular basis. [...]

VOY is "gritty"? I'm not sure how I'm going to stop laughing at that claim.

 

[BillJ]

Lieutenant Commander Leland Lynch ("Skin of Evil")

Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch is displeased that you didn't address him by his full name.

That guy was such a douchebag.

 

[Anwar]

So much for the "No conflict in TNG" thing, eh?

 

[Saquist]

After season 3, Voyager should have been renamed The Janeway/Doctor/Seven experiment

I didn't mind Janeway and Seven but that hologram crap was annoying.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Lieutenant Commander Leland Lynch ("Skin of Evil")

Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch is displeased that you didn't address him by his full name.

That guy was such a douchebag.

No one thinks that's Twin Peaks?

Wait?

TNG season on predates Twin Peaks.

Meh.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I hated season 1's TNG for its LACK of a main character as chief engineer. I couldn't name that guy if my LIFE depended on it! (I can see him in the background watching Wesley dismantle something "important" in an ep where everyone went off their rocker. Otherwise, I can't remember him at all.)

There wasn't one Chief Engineer during season 1; there were at least 4. Lieutenant Commander Sarah MacDougal ("The Naked Now"), Lieutenant Commander Argyle ("Where No One Has Gone Before," "Datalore," "Lonely Among Us"), Lieutenant Commander Leland Lynch ("Skin of Evil"), and Lieutenant Logan ("The Arsenal of Freedom"). There was also Assistant Chief Engineer Jim Shimoda ("The Naked Now").

I nearly choked when in season 2 Geordie was promoted from Ensign? Lt jg pilot to CHIEF Engineer [...]

Geordi La Forge was a Lieutenant JG in 2364 and promoted to full Lieutenant when he was assigned the position of Chief Engineer onboard the Enterprise in 2365. I don't exactly see why that would be cause for "chok[ing]" in any event.

I don't know why some in the Trek community are negative about 1 show over the other...

There are numerous reasons explicated in this thread. If you don't know why some people are negative about this show, perhaps you should try reading.

That's how I finally got to see the "grittier" Trek on a regular basis. [...]

VOY is "gritty"? I'm not sure how I'm going to stop laughing at that claim.

Hmmm. Lets start with your last comment first.

The "grittier" trek was DEEP SPACE NINE, the trek I couldn't reliably find on any station where I was then living, because they moved it around so much. I started watching IT when it was paired with Voyager's weekly repeat showing at 11pm on Sunday night.

Since I wanted to watch Voy, the new show, I "got" to watch DS9, Trek's "grittier show.

Still laughing now, or is it DS9 that you disrespect?

Penultimate comment.... I don't need, want or plan to read 51 pages of cat fighting. My point of why trekkies FIGHT is that there is no reason to FIGHT. You like one show, I like another show... we can't all like all shows. Expecting all Trekkies to like everything is like expecting all women to hate scifi. Its a fallacy.

Why choke about Geordie the PILOT becoming the CHIEF ENGINEER when Enterprise already (by your count 3 being Lt Commanders) had FOUR assistant chiefs... why... I think THAT would be obvious.

It certainly was to Lt Carey.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Fighting is dumb, but having people trying to rip off your head for your opinion through da intanetz is fun. Isn't that one of the reasons these threads always get a gazillion responses? It sure is why I post in them.