Why is the Trek community so negative about Voyager?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by ReadyAndWilling, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    ^Nope. TNG never states exactly where the Borg come from; it's left very vague.

    The closest it comes is in Q Who, the Borg's first appearance, when they encounter a Cube in System J-25, which is only stated to be 7,000 light-years from Federation space. The Delta Quadrant is never mentioned in relation to the Borg. In fact, the whole concept of dividing the galaxy into four quadrants wasn't even introduced for another season.

    I'm of the opinion, and it is just my opinion, that the reference to the Borg's Delta Quadrant origins was inserted into First Contact (co-written, I think not coincidentally, by Brannon Braga) in order to pave the way for their introduction on VOY, which came just a few months after First Contact premiered.
     
  2. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Did they say where the Transwarp Conduit sent them in "Descent"? I figured that was in the Delta Quadrant, and where they got the idea.

    And Cyke, I'm not so sure about the "Even modern astronomers can tell where we are" thing is valid. After all, in Farscape Crichton was an astronomer and he never figured out where HE was until the Peacekeepers told him after 3 years.
     
  3. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Nope. Descent says nothing about the Delta Quadrant either. All those episodes say is that the Transwarp Conduit takes them to somewhere outside Federation space.
     
  4. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Crichton doesn't have an entire team of astronomers or the resources the way NASA or private observatories do. And Crichton was surrounded by people who had no idea what *his* origins look like.
     
  5. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But Crichton still knew, and the various planets they traveled to had observatories. Heck, the Peacekeepers were able to figure out where Earth was on their own!
     
  6. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    According to a quote provided on Memory Alpha's Delta Quadrant page, Michael Okuda sent a memo to Rick Berman in September of 1993 stating that, "One of the few things we know about the Delta Quadrant is that the Borg homeworld is located somewhere there. This might present opportunities for the Borg to be recurring bad guys."

    So, if it hadn't been established on-screen, perhaps it was established in one of the behind-the-scenes documents at that time (well before "First Contact" had been scripted or "Generations" had been completed).

    http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Delta_Quadrant
     
  7. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, but the Peacekeepers are an outside force that weren't exactly helpful to Crichton. As well, when I speak about modern scientists and astronomers with star maps, it's not like they can figure out locations out of memory or eyesight the way we look at normal google maps. These days you need computers and archives and regular monitoring to figure out locations in space, whereas Voyager (and Trek in general) can do the same thing in less than a second with a few keystrokes. Even if Crichton had a hard copy of the Milky Way, I doubt he (or anyone else for that matter, unless you're Superman) could pick out the location of Earth.
     
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's just a personal matter for me then, to take the trouble of throwing the cast away from home and then just let them know right off the bat where they are. That eliminates too much drama than if they were TRULY lost and weren't sure where they were. That's why I had them not know where they were in that redo I did a few years ago, remember that? I'm on my 3rd draft of it.
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ..because they didn't feel they had too.
    After watching TNG & DS9, they didn't think we'd still have questions on how shit worked.

    We know the ship lands
    We know replicators are recycling machines
    We know that the replicators are tied into the transporters.

    Seriously, after knowing just the basics.
    Why is it not easy to figure it out?
    You land the ship.
    Send repair crews out thru the shuttle bay.
    Beam the broken panel into the replicator
    Wham, bam and you beam it back out again.
    Ship repaired.:)

    They showed this in "Nightingale".
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the point was more like: "People are the same the world over." approach. As in, just because were separated by quaderants doesn't mean we don't have the same emotional concerns. So it plays into Trek's theme of finding common bonds. You couldn't do that with Species 8472 or the Borg, which is why they had to turn 8472 human & give the Borg a Queen. Like the Vorta on DS9, they were all designed for the viewer to establish an emotional common ground with those species.
     
  11. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    I'll agree that it's entirely possible that it was decided "behind-the-scenes" that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant well in advance. All I'm saying is that audiences weren't given that info. in any form until First Contact.

    I also doubt it's much of a coincidence that that reference was finally made in First Contact, when TPTB over on VOY were gearing up to introduce the Borg on that show.
     
  12. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I also doubt it's much of a coincidence. After all, the Borg didn't appear on Star Trek: Voyager until the costumes and sets had been built for Star Trek: First Contact.

    I do wonder if the Borg originating from the Delta Quadrant wasn't a fact that was in some sort of publicity material for the show, however. I have the distinct memory of being excited about VOY because it was lost in the area of space where the Borg came from. But, then again, that was more than 15 years ago, and I was only 7 or 8 at the time. :lol:
     
  13. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    I also seem to remember hearing some buzz like that at the time.

    You might be right, maybe it was in promotional material.
     
  14. Bishop76

    Bishop76 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was 17 or 18 at the time and I do remember they were touting it as the show that takes place where the Borg came from. I want to say it was in TV Guide or Entertainment Weekly articles at the time...