Why Is The Solution To School Problems Always "more money"

[Strider]

This is really pretty simple. Dayton3 sounds like his personality just isn't all that well suited for teaching in a high school. I don't mean to insult him as a professional, I'm sure he's very well-equipped to teach a class so long as the students are sufficiently engaged in the material. If they let their students get under their skin, that's when a teacher starts bitching about students meeting them halfway or wishing they could kick a tenth of their kids to the curb. Honestly Dayton you might be better suited for teaching at the college level.

I was exactly the kind of kid who drove teachers crazy when I was in high school. I was smart to pass my classes with minimal effort, but I was actively disinterested in the material. We read Jane Eyre in my lit class, and I would fall asleep or get kicked out on a regular basis just to avoid that stupid book. I remember tearing a quiz in half down the middle right in front of the teacher and laughing because it was so boring. I honestly can't believe I did that. I'm not trying to overstate things. I was our ASB vice president and fairly popular I guess. School just rubbed me the wrong way.

I got a lot more serious about soical studies and literature after I left high school, but I still remember what it was like to be a high schooler. What this means is that even though I take the content of my classes very seriously, I'm not offended if my students are less engaged. Their indifference is kind of their default state, and it's my job to come up with new and interesting ways to draw them out of that and engage them in the material.

Part of my job as a teacher is to demonstrate professional academic behavior for my students with the understanding that it will pay off later on when they are in college. As for my kids who don't go on to serious academic pursuits, the world needs mechanics and bricklayers a whole hell of a lot more than it needs accountants anyway. I hope I can do a little to inspire them to find honorable work and raise decent families. It's all about accepting students where they are at and sending them off better than where you found them. It's really rewarding work.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I must be drunk on antidepressants. I find this whole thread incredibly funny.

 

[Trippy]

I hate to agree with Dayton about anything (especially since most of what he's posted in this thread has been trite garbage re: Spec. Ed.) but the 'students meeting teachers halfway' statement has some merit.

I, as most know, am a high school teacher. I, to the best of my ability, attempt to motivate my students. This is called extrinsic motivation. I create lesson plans, I speak to my students with respect, I create a safe place for learning and discussion. I do all I know how to do at this stage in my career.

I cannot reach the students who do not have any intrinsic motivation. If there is noting there, nothing I do will have that student partidipate. I can call that student's parent, who, more often than not, have an excuse or just don't give a shit.

Students have to have some intrinsic motivation in order for my extrinsic motivation to work, and therefore have my students learn instead of just playing along to get a 50% and pass.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

I, as most know, am a high school teacher. I, to the best of my ability, attempt to motivate my students. This is called extrinsic motivation. I create lesson plans, I speak to my students with respect, I create a safe place for learning and discussion. I do all I know how to do at this stage in my career.

I cannot reach the students who do not have any intrinsic motivation. If there is noting there, nothing I do will have that student partidipate. I can call that student's parent, who, more often than not, have an excuse or just don't give a shit.

But I suspect that at the end of the term, when you are assessing grades, you can honestly say that you did everything you could to reach a student - using a variety of learning styles, lesson plans and the like.

For an "educator" to lay down the blanket "Students have to meet me halfway" shows a lack of effort and commitment. It excuses one to put in the minimum effort necessary and when the results aren't there, it's easy to say "they didn't care to get involved"

It then becomes easy to discount and ignore whole groups of students the "educator" thinks aren't involved or putting forth the effort. Then you've got a whole group turned off on education who will live in functional poverty - making just enough to pay their bills, but not enough to do any better. That attitude will be passed on to the kids and the cycle deepens.

 

[sidious618]

This is really pretty simple. Dayton3 sounds like his personality just isn't all that well suited for teaching in a high school. I don't mean to insult him as a professional, I'm sure he's very well-equipped to teach a class so long as the students are sufficiently engaged in the material. If they let their students get under their skin, that's when a teacher starts bitching about students meeting them halfway or wishing they could kick a tenth of their kids to the curb. Honestly Dayton you might be better suited for teaching at the college level.

I was exactly the kind of kid who drove teachers crazy when I was in high school. I was smart to pass my classes with minimal effort, but I was actively disinterested in the material. We read Jane Eyre in my lit class, and I would fall asleep or get kicked out on a regular basis just to avoid that stupid book. I remember tearing a quiz in half down the middle right in front of the teacher and laughing because it was so boring. I honestly can't believe I did that. I'm not trying to overstate things. I was our ASB vice president and fairly popular I guess. School just rubbed me the wrong way.

I got a lot more serious about soical studies and literature after I left high school, but I still remember what it was like to be a high schooler. What this means is that even though I take the content of my classes very seriously, I'm not offended if my students are less engaged. Their indifference is kind of their default state, and it's my job to come up with new and interesting ways to draw them out of that and engage them in the material.

Part of my job as a teacher is to demonstrate professional academic behavior for my students with the understanding that it will pay off later on when they are in college. As for my kids who don't go on to serious academic pursuits, the world needs mechanics and bricklayers a whole hell of a lot more than it needs accountants anyway. I hope I can do a little to inspire them to find honorable work and raise decent families. It's all about accepting students where they are at and sending them off better than where you found them. It's really rewarding work.

I agree with absolutely everything you just said.

 

[galleywest]

I taught at the university level for six years. Did I have unmotivated students? I taught some Gen Ed classes along with my more specialized classes, so heck yeah, I had sleepers. I was frustrated, I complained, I was in awe of the laziness I encountered--I've been there, believe me.

Ideally, students should meet you halfway. Absolutely (especially at the college level). If you're looking for idealism, however, then perhaps teaching is not your thing. You know what I did when I had students who were unmotivated, turned in sloppy work, stopped showing up, plagiarized, or fell asleep in class? I kept teaching (which was, incidentally, my job). And when the time to grade came, I gave them the grades they earned, which were often failing grades. That's what you do when you've done your best and students don't meet you halfway in classes. That is your evaluative tool, not denying them an access to education.

(Not directed at you, Trippy, btw. I strongly doubt you would advocate denying education to anyone!)

 

[Trippy]

^indeed not!

And yes, though I've not had to fail one of my students yet, I am, this semester, dealing with grade 12's who are just there to 'get my credit and graduate' and only put in a 50% amount of effort, even though I KNOW they are bright enough to do better

It's frustrating is all.

 

[RoJoHen]

It is certainly true that not everyone needs to excel in math or english, but if there are too few jobs for those who don't, then what?

The only response I have is this:

I am several years out of college now. My friends and I all graduated around the same time. We have degrees.

Do you know what we do for a living?

We are all bartenders and servers.

Degrees, unless you get a specialized degree for a particular field (teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc), are not as important as people make them out to be.

 

[Dayton3]

A college degree today is just a form of legalized discrimination that allows employers to trim down the applicant pool.

 

[Misfit Toy]

A college degree today is just a form of legalized discrimination that allows employers to trim down the applicant pool.

Like Praxis scores?

 

[Strider]

It is certainly true that not everyone needs to excel in math or english, but if there are too few jobs for those who don't, then what?

In this economy, I think the reverse is more true. There's a lot of unemployed or underemployed people with college degrees right now. I have my bachelor's and my master's degrees, but I'm still looking into taking welding classes and driving a combine this summer just so I can continue broadening my experience in non-professional work. The agricultural sector is growing quite a bit, and I'd prefer not to rely on my degrees for the rest of my life.

Overall, I think this whole thing is just a matter a being realistic about our expectations. There's never been a time in history where students came into class begging to be taught. It's not going to happen any time soon, either. The best you can hope for most kids is that they come out of high school better socialized and reasonably prepared for college if they choose that route.

The majority won't be getting advanced degrees, though. I am currently the only person in my graduating class of fifty with a post-graduate degree. Within a couple years there'll be a whopping three of us, two masters and a doctorate. Most kids will become plumbers and electricians and pipe fitters and farmers or whatever. That's not regrettable. That's the way it should be. College is part of, but not essential to, a life well lived. I love the work I do, and I needed a masters to do it. That's why I went to college.

 

[Dayton3]

A college degree today is just a form of legalized discrimination that allows employers to trim down the applicant pool.

Like Praxis scores?

I have no problem with professional certification.

Personally I think if you can pass the professional certification tests then you should be allowed to do the work in that profession regardless of education background.

After all, I never received an education degree yet I'm considered an excellent teacher.

 

[Misfit Toy]

A college degree today is just a form of legalized discrimination that allows employers to trim down the applicant pool.

Like Praxis scores?

I have no problem with professional certification.

Personally I think if you can pass the professional certification tests then you should be allowed to do the work in that profession regardless of education background.

After all, I never received an education degree yet I'm considered an excellent teacher.

An "excellent teacher" who advocates child abuse. Okay.

 

[Dayton3]

Like Praxis scores?

I have no problem with professional certification.

Personally I think if you can pass the professional certification tests then you should be allowed to do the work in that profession regardless of education background.

After all, I never received an education degree yet I'm considered an excellent teacher.

An "excellent teacher" who advocates child abuse. Okay.

I never advocated child abuse.

Hitting someone old enough to enlist in the army is far from child abuse.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I never advocated child abuse.

Bullshit.

To hell with "No Child Left Behind".

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

 

[Strider]

After all, I never received an education degree yet I'm considered an excellent teacher.

Oh haha no surprise there. You're an idiot dude. Get ahead and hit one of your kids. Watch 'em kick your ass for you.

 

[SeerSGB]

I have no problem with professional certification.

Personally I think if you can pass the professional certification tests then you should be allowed to do the work in that profession regardless of education background.

After all, I never received an education degree yet I'm considered an excellent teacher.

An "excellent teacher" who advocates child abuse. Okay.

I never advocated child abuse.

Hitting someone old enough to enlist in the army is far from child abuse.

No, it's assault and your ass goes to jail for it.

 

[Dayton3]

After all, I never received an education degree yet I'm considered an excellent teacher.

Oh haha no surprise there. You're an idiot dude. Get ahead and hit one of your kids. Watch 'em kick your ass for you.

Oh please.

That is ridiculous.

 

[RJDiogenes]

You're an idiot dude.

Don't do that, please. This Thread is getting a bit too personal. Let's stick to the Topic, everyone.

 

[JoeZhang]

It is certainly true that not everyone needs to excel in math or english, but if there are too few jobs for those who don't, then what?

The only response I have is this:

I am several years out of college now. My friends and I all graduated around the same time. We have degrees.

Do you know what we do for a living?

We are all bartenders and servers.

Degrees, unless you get a specialized degree for a particular field (teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc), are not as important as people make them out to be.

Too simplistic a take, the "usefulness" of a degree is highly variable on the subject and where you took it.

A Pure maths degree from Oxford is going to do more for you than a sports science degree from the University of Bums on Seats.

Leaving that aside, qualification inflation means that there are many jobs you simply can't apply for unless you have a degree of some nature, regardless of if the job actually requires that level of knowledge.