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Why Is The Solution To School Problems Always "more money"

Assuming that basics such as supplies and textbooks are covered no amount of spending is going to make up for the fact that some children simply do not have an adult in their lives who is interested in seeing them do well in school and get ahead. This is why mentoring programs are so important, imo.
 
I would like to see schools get back to raw basics.

No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

And in regards to the textbooks. At least from the Social Studies textbooks, kids would be better off without them. All of them are garbage as far as I'm concerned.

I hope you don't mind investing in lots of adult literacy programs.
 
No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs".

My wife, a special education teacher who herself has a learning disability, will no doubt have some words for you when she logs on and discovers this thread.
 
I would like to see schools get back to raw basics.

No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

And in regards to the textbooks. At least from the Social Studies textbooks, kids would be better off without them. All of them are garbage as far as I'm concerned.

I hope you don't mind investing in lots of adult literacy programs.

I do mind.

In fact, I'm wondering why society has any responsibility to coddle, coax, and prod people toward taking education seriously.

Why not save our rewards for those with the maturity and understanding to appreciate the doors education opens instead of dragging so many forward practically kicking and screaming.

I disagreed with President Bush.

To hell with "No Child Left Behind".

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

And this is a quite common opinion by educators.
 
Note, I teach about 130 students or so per day.

If I could permanently get rid of just 10% of them, the right 10% then I could do immensely more with the remainder.
 
No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

It's what Jesus would have wanted.

Well, the Mirror Universe Jesus that Dayton worships at least.
 
Assuming that basics such as supplies and textbooks are covered no amount of spending is going to make up for the fact that some children simply do not have an adult in their lives who is interested in seeing them do well in school and get ahead. This is why mentoring programs are so important, imo.
I agree. We've been spending more and more on education for quite some time. Here in California, about 40% of the total state budget goes to K-12 education. If you include higher education, that number goes to over 50%. From what I understand, most states are similar. We are spending plenty on education, but there are still many kids who don't succeed. There is plenty of money, but a lot of it is wasted.

Saying that, I think you pointed out the real problem. Until that is fixed, no amount of money will significantly improve education. That problem is simply the bad attitude of many students. Too many students don't think education is important because they've never been taught that by the adults in their life. In many cases, that's because either the parents aren't involved in their children's lives enough, or because the parents don't value education themselves. Compounding the problem is that kids today are so used to being entertained that they can't pay attention in school unless it's fun. The work required to learn well often isn't fun. Unfortunately, this isn't something that the government can fix. No program or money can make parents a better example for their children. This problem won't go away until people begin to fix the problem themselves.
 
No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

It's what Jesus would have wanted.

Well, the Mirror Universe Jesus that Dayton worships at least.

Why do you always want to bring Jesus into the discussion.

Doesn't that indicate that your argument has some intellectual vacuity?
 
Assuming that basics such as supplies and textbooks are covered no amount of spending is going to make up for the fact that some children simply do not have an adult in their lives who is interested in seeing them do well in school and get ahead. This is why mentoring programs are so important, imo.
I agree. We've been spending more and more on education for quite some time. Here in California, about 40% of the total state budget goes to K-12 education. If you include higher education, that number goes to over 50%. From what I understand, most states are similar. We are spending plenty on education, but there are still many kids who don't succeed. There is plenty of money, but a lot of it is wasted.

Saying that, I think you pointed out the real problem. Until that is fixed, no amount of money will significantly improve education. That problem is simply the bad attitude of many students. Too many students don't think education is important because they've never been taught that by the adults in their life. In many cases, that's because either the parents aren't involved in their children's lives enough, or because the parents don't value education themselves. Compounding the problem is that kids today are so used to being entertained that they can't pay attention in school unless it's fun. The work required to learn well often isn't fun. Unfortunately, this isn't something that the government can fix. No program or money can make parents a better example for their children. This problem won't go away until people begin to fix the problem themselves.

Fully agreed.

From what I've observed, at least half of students from 9th grade upwards are interested mainly in

sex, alcohol, drugs, music, and clothes.

In various orders depending on the students.

You don't see any "intellectual curiousity" among students. No desire to do anything truly meaningfull in life beyond "get out of school".

Hell, virtually ALL of my students actually believe they should get good grades...FOR JUST COMING TO SCHOOL!!!!

Unfreaking believable.
 
No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

So how do you help kids with dyslexia? How do you help kids with real learning issues or problems?

What about art programs? Music programs? Those are getting slashed to death.
 
No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

It's what Jesus would have wanted.

Well, the Mirror Universe Jesus that Dayton worships at least.

Why do you always want to bring Jesus into the discussion.

I don't always bring Jesus into the discussion, but if you're looking for a reason why I did this time, it's because you claim to be not just Christian, but some kind of superior model of Christian, yet there are Satanists who live up to Christian principles better than you any day of the week.

How can you claim to be a Christian yet seriously posit the idea of not providing education for special education/needs kids or kids unlucky enough to not have parents? We're not talking about kids who are slacking off in school and therefore are holding others back by drawing more attention, we're talking about kids who need education just to function at the most basic level in society, who are in their situation through no fault of their own.

Your suggestion is absolutely reprehensible, and not one I've even heard conservatives broach. You're in a class of uncaring all by yourself. I just have to wonder how you were raised to be this unbelievably selfish and lacking in empathy for anyone. How did you decide to go into a field where helping children is job one with an attitude like that?
 
I would like to see schools get back to raw basics.

No special education programs. No programs for kids with "special needs". No extra programs for students without parents and all the social engineering garbage.

And in regards to the textbooks. At least from the Social Studies textbooks, kids would be better off without them. All of them are garbage as far as I'm concerned.

I hope you don't mind investing in lots of adult literacy programs.

I do mind.

In fact, I'm wondering why society has any responsibility to coddle, coax, and prod people toward taking education seriously.

Why not save our rewards for those with the maturity and understanding to appreciate the doors education opens instead of dragging so many forward practically kicking and screaming.

I disagreed with President Bush.

To hell with "No Child Left Behind".

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

And this is a quite common opinion by educators.

Here's the problem that I see with your logic. Let's say that you do get rid of all the special education programs and let's say that you just start leaving students (and essentially their parents) by the wayside. (Which, IMO is one of the worst ideas ever.) If you get rid of those programs you basically put things into a downward spiral. How can you expect to have parents who are willing to support their child if they cannot read themselves? How can you expect to get good service when you go out to dinner if the cooks and the servers don't know how to read? How do you expect the mechanic or builder to do anything if they can't do math or read directions? True, there are many people who go through their life without a college or even a high school education. At the same time, those jobs that you can get without that are getting fewer and fewer.

As my husband pointed out, I have a learning disability. I'm a teacher, I work with students who have disabilities both inside the classroom and out in their communities. I know, from firsthand experience, that if you do not offer the opportunities and the help that is needed, many people will not get very far. I know that if it wasn't for my high school case manager, I wouldn't be where I am. I wouldn't have graduated from college with a 3.909 GPA. I wouldn't have discovered that I LOVE teaching. She believed in me, she helped me along the way, and she is currently an amazing friend to me.

Speaking of this friend: she is currently trying to start a program, in my home town, that prepares students with severe disabilities so that they can find a job and maintain it after graduation. I honestly think this is AMAZING. I've had arguments with my father who has asked me numerous times, "What do you think a child with cerebral palsy ever accomplish?" The fact of the matter is, you don't know until you give them the help and the opportunities they need to succeed. If you take away the funding for those programs, even the basic ones that I was offered (and were starting to get cut when I was graduating high school), you take away the chance for a child to live a fulfilling life, to be the best they can be and function in society like everyone else.
 
^You might have a point or two there but I'm really wondering if it is really cost effective to make special efforts to educate those kids.

Shouldn't public schools, being a govt. program, try to get the most bang for the buck.

And in regards to the post a couple up, I see no reason to coddle people in education programs with special care and attention that they certainly will not get out in the real world.

Prepare people for the world of cold, harsh, unyielding reality by raising them in the same hard school of our grandfathers and great grandfathers.
 
^You might have a point or two there but I'm really wondering if it is really cost effective to make special efforts to educate those kids.

As someone who has to manage the budgets of his business and keep everything running, and as such being particularly well-versed in cost-effective strategies ... I have to say that all goes out the window, here. High-quality education isn't a business. It's a duty.
 
[You're in a class of uncaring all by yourself. I just have to wonder how you were raised to be this unbelievably selfish and lacking in empathy for anyone. How did you decide to go into a field where helping children is job one with an attitude like that?

To answer the question.

Teaching has been one of things my family does.

My mother was a teacher for more than 12 years full time. Then a substitute teacher for decades later.

My oldest sister was a teacher for 12 years before deciding to be a stay at home mother after her third son was born and managing her husbands business.

My youngest sister is in her 25th year of teaching.

My dad was a school board member for more than 20 years.

Every one of them shares opinions regarding this matter similiar to mine.
 
^You might have a point or two there but I'm really wondering if it is really cost effective to make special efforts to educate those kids.

As someone who has to manage the budgets of his business and keep everything running, and as such being particularly well-versed in cost-effective strategies ... I have to say that all goes out the window, here. High-quality education isn't a business. It's a duty.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
^You might have a point or two there but I'm really wondering if it is really cost effective to make special efforts to educate those kids.

Shouldn't public schools, being a govt. program, try to get the most bang for the buck.

No, public schools, being a government program, should try to help as many people as possible.
 
^You might have a point or two there but I'm really wondering if it is really cost effective to make special efforts to educate those kids.

Shouldn't public schools, being a govt. program, try to get the most bang for the buck.

No, public schools, being a government program, should try to help as many people as possible.

I don't see it that way.

I think govt. programs should try to advance the interests of the nation as a whole even if it means a few individuals fall to side.

We Americans have grown too obsessive about worshiping at the altar of individualism.
 
You don't see any "intellectual curiousity" among students. No desire to do anything truly meaningfull in life beyond "get out of school".

Since the cornerstone of your New World Order is kicking the undesirable kids to the curb, how exactly do you plan to keep them from being a burden to the taxpayer at a future date? If they can't get jobs because they're illiterate, lack skills, or do not fulfill even basic educational requirements, what becomes of them? What happens to those special needs kids you don't want in the classroom? They don't magically *disappear* because they're not in the schools anymore. They're still out there, only now they're uneducated and lack opportunity, mentorship, structure, and any kind of intellectual stimulation. But I'm sure if you tell them to snap out of it and become contributing members of society, they will. Especially after they've been shown how much society cares about their well-being and all.

You want students to be intellectually curious and yet you essentially equate them to a commercial product, dropping the ones that don't perform to standard. Kind of a mixed message there. So far you haven't presented much of an argument beyond "I don't like spending money on the loser-kids." Hmm. The whole thing smacks of eugenics.
 
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