Why Is The Solution To School Problems Always "more money"

[Sephiroth]

give school admins more accountability, in Florida, the money goes in and then disappears into a cloud,how it's allocated is up to the super intendant and whoever he has in each individual school's discretion, thier only mandate is that the test score #'s look pretty, if that means dumbing down the tests, because god forbid the Super Intendant's office doesn't get redecorated every year because he has to spend the money on competent educators

 

[Strider]

Hmmm, I came into this thread looking for a conversation about public schools, but all I found was some burnout lecturing people. Am I lost?

 

[JonathonWally]

From what I've observed, at least half of students from 9th grade upwards are interested mainly in

sex, alcohol, drugs, music, and clothes.

Oh come on, open your eyes, it's way more than half

 

[RoJoHen]

I do mind.

In fact, I'm wondering why society has any responsibility to coddle, coax, and prod people toward taking education seriously.

Why not save our rewards for those with the maturity and understanding to appreciate the doors education opens instead of dragging so many forward practically kicking and screaming.

I disagreed with President Bush.

To hell with "No Child Left Behind".

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

And this is a quite common opinion by educators.

I think the biggest issue here is that we, as a nation, need to step back and realize that education, while important, isn't THAT important. Instead of forcing every kid to learn the same stuff and striving to get into college, we need to realize that not everyone is meant for that.

We keep cutting funding for art and music programs. We keep remove electives like wood and auto shop. This, I think, is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, and is one of the main reasons education is in the shape it's in. Not everybody needs to excel at math or english. But guess what? We still need people to build houses and fix cars.

 

[Dayton3]

I do mind.

In fact, I'm wondering why society has any responsibility to coddle, coax, and prod people toward taking education seriously.

Why not save our rewards for those with the maturity and understanding to appreciate the doors education opens instead of dragging so many forward practically kicking and screaming.

I disagreed with President Bush.

To hell with "No Child Left Behind".

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

And this is a quite common opinion by educators.

I think the biggest issue here is that we, as a nation, need to step back and realize that education, while important, isn't THAT important. Instead of forcing every kid to learn the same stuff and striving to get into college, we need to realize that not everyone is meant for that.

We keep cutting funding for art and music programs. We keep remove electives like wood and auto shop. This, I think, is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, and is one of the main reasons education is in the shape it's in. Not everybody needs to excel at math or english. But guess what? We still need people to build houses and fix cars.

Actually, I can agree with at least your first paragraph.

And I would not be against a program where students can substitute some kinds of electives for redundunt core curriculum classes.

 

[USS Triumphant]

If they can't get jobs because they're illiterate, lack skills, or do not fulfill even basic educational requirements, what becomes of them?

Yes. And quite possibly, say hello to Al-Qaeda in America. People who are disenfranchised from one society will find another one - and usually one opposed to the one that didn't want them.

Why do you always want to bring Jesus into the discussion.

Doesn't that indicate that your argument has some intellectual vacuity?

You bring Him into the discussion with every sig. Does that indicate...?

Hmmm, I came into this thread looking for a conversation about public schools, but all I found was some burnout lecturing people. Am I lost?

I think the biggest issue here is that we, as a nation, need to step back and realize that education, while important, isn't THAT important. Instead of forcing every kid to learn the same stuff and striving to get into college, we need to realize that not everyone is meant for that.

We keep cutting funding for art and music programs. We keep remove electives like wood and auto shop. This, I think, is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, and is one of the main reasons education is in the shape it's in. Not everybody needs to excel at math or english. But guess what? We still need people to build houses and fix cars.

I agree with part of this a lot. Education should be vocational - preparing kids to serve a purpose and feel useful in society, like those carpenters and mechanics you're talking about. Promote higher learning, but try to get kids ready to have a good "fall-back", as well.

But kids, especially earlier on, need to be exposed to everything - math, science, art, music, literature, sports, and everything else. Even if little Bobby ends up an auto mechanic, he'll be much more well-rounded in his personal life, and a better citizen if he has at least a cursory understanding of what other people are doing and why it is important to them. And, a knowledge of other disciplines may lead him to figure out something about automotive engineering that someone who was never exposed to Vivaldi (for example) would not see.

It's all interconnected.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

That's absolutely disgusting. As a teacher, you are considered a "mandatory reporter" of suspected child abuse - and yet here you are advocating it - "literally and figuratively".

 

[Terengo]

I think the biggest issue here is that we, as a nation, need to step back and realize that education, while important, isn't THAT important. Instead of forcing every kid to learn the same stuff and striving to get into college, we need to realize that not everyone is meant for that.

We keep cutting funding for art and music programs. We keep remove electives like wood and auto shop. This, I think, is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, and is one of the main reasons education is in the shape it's in. Not everybody needs to excel at math or english. But guess what? We still need people to build houses and fix cars.

Time was when you didn't even need a high school diploma to have a good life. I had uncles who never even finished grade school, and they did fine. But, they worked at manual labor, construction, manufacturing (assembly line), where the lack of a degree didn't matter. Hell, one of my uncles actually worked as a ditch-digger and sent two of my cousins to college! Unfortunately, the pool of those types of jobs continues to shrink as we move into the "information economy" and the "service economy" (when's the last time you saw a dozen ditch-diggers at the side of the road all morning - nowadays a backhoe does their job in half an hour!)

It is certainly true that not everyone needs to excel in math or english, but if there are too few jobs for those who don't, then what?

 

[Dayton3]

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

That's absolutely disgusting. As a teacher, you are considered a "mandatory reporter" of suspected child abuse - and yet here you are advocating it - "literally and figuratively".

Corporal punishment is not child abuse.

 

[SeerSGB]

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

That's absolutely disgusting. As a teacher, you are considered a "mandatory reporter" of suspected child abuse - and yet here you are advocating it - "literally and figuratively".

Corporal punishment is not child abuse.

Depends on the teacher. Having been a product of corporal-punishment in schools, I can tell ya' I've seen far to many teachers that use it as the be all punishment for infractions. Frankly, I'm 100% against any form of corporal punishment in public schools.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

That's absolutely disgusting. As a teacher, you are considered a "mandatory reporter" of suspected child abuse - and yet here you are advocating it - "literally and figuratively".

Corporal punishment is not child abuse.

Kicking children IS. Or don't you understand what the word "literally" means?

 

[Yassim]

If I could permanently get rid of just 10% of them, the right 10% then I could do immensely more with the remainder.

The 10% losers will go away to become a wonderful, gainfully employed contribution to society. Well done.

Or maybe more money would allow for those 10% to get the attention they need, freeing you to dispense wisdom to the "better" 90%. (or maybe you'd come to resent the weaker kids in your new class? there's always a weakest 10%, and they always slow things down, you know)

Maybe those kids have the wrong teacher...?

Shouldn't public schools, being a govt. program, try to get the most bang for the buck.

The police are also a government program - I bet they could get a lot more done if they stopped responding to 10% of their calls...

If the fire department didn't have to respond to the farthest 10% of calls, think of the savings!

Doctors should stop treating the most time-consuming 10% of their cases - if you want to catch some rare, hard-to-cure disease, we'll kick you to the curb! (not literally, though) Teach yourself how to do a long, costly surgery on yourself - maybe there's a teacher willing to teach you, if you're smart and motivated enough.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

In fact, I'm wondering why society has any responsibility to coddle, coax, and prod people toward taking education seriously.

Because the cost of not doing so is too high. Or do you believe that the uneducated, illiterate, unemployable at a living wage "products" of your new education order won't be a drain on society?

Do you envision shantytowns or ghettos hidden outside city limits where "those people" live and those who "take to education" can conveniently ignore them?

Why not save our rewards for those with the maturity and understanding to appreciate the doors education opens instead of dragging so many forward practically kicking and screaming.

I'm guessing this is a question. The lack of proper punctuation confused me for a minute.

Because given the choice, people won't choose pain over pleasure most times. Going to school and learning is painful compared to sitting at home playing x-box or wii.

The other reason is that a teacher, ideally, should be a leader of their students. A leader's prime function is to take people to places they wouldn't go on their own.

Instead not only should we leaving some of them behind, a substantial number should be kicked to the curb (literally and figuratively).

And this is a quite common opinion by educators.

Other than the educators in your family and the educators in Hog Holler Arkansas do you have anything to support that?

We keep cutting funding for art and music programs. We keep remove electives like wood and auto shop. This, I think, is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, and is one of the main reasons education is in the shape it's in. Not everybody needs to excel at math or english. But guess what? We still need people to build houses and fix cars.

We need to quit teaching to tests and return funding for art, music, vocational programs and the like.

The answer may not be more money, but a better use/stewardship of the money that is already allocated.

 

[Dayton3]

If I could permanently

The police are also a government program - I bet they could get a lot more done if they stopped responding to 10% of their calls...

If the fire department didn't have to respond to the farthest 10% of calls, think of the savings!

Doctors should stop treating the most time-consuming 10% of their cases - if you .

All of those things have been done in certain circumstances from what I've heard.

I know from personal experience that Fire Dept. and Police Dept. have done that.

 

[Strider]

Corporal punishment is not child abuse.

You must be a real hit at parties. Try to loosen up and have some fun. High schoolers are great!

 

[Dayton3]

In

The other reason is that a teacher, ideally, should be a leader of their students.

Ideally students should meet you at least halfway.

 

[Dayton3]

Other than the educators in your family and the educators in Hog Holler Arkansas do you have anything to support that?

.

Why do you insult Arkansas which has a higher graduation rate than the national average?

The Arkansas graduation rate is 80% while the national rate is 74%.

Incidentally, the New York graduation rate is only 67%.

And no I don't have a link handy, but it was reported in last weeks newspapers.

 

[Misfit Toy]

And no I don't have a link handy, but it was reported in last weeks newspapers.

So what is preventing you from linking to one of those newspapers' websites?

By the way...

Definition of Child abuse
Child abuse: Child abuse is a very complex and dangerous set of problems that include child neglect and the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse of children.

Although most people think first of physical abuse when they hear the term, physical abuse makes us 25 percent of reported cases. It is defined as physical injury inflicted upon the child with cruel and/or malicious intent, although the law recognizes that in some cases the parent or caretaker may not have intended to hurt the child; rather, the injury may have resulted from over-discipline or physical punishment. Physical abuse includes punching, beating, kicking, biting, burning, shaking, or otherwise harming a child.

Emphasis mine.

Links are your friends.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

Ideally students should meet you at least halfway.

Bullshit. A true teacher is going to do everything in their power to engage the students and give them every opportunity to learn.

It's lazy and unskilled people who blame others for their own failures of leadership. "I did everything I could, but they wouldn't come along, it was up to them to meet me halfway."

Well, then chief, you didn't. Unless going halfway counts as doing everything you can do.

Other than the educators in your family and the educators in Hog Holler Arkansas do you have anything to support that?

.

Why do you insult Arkansas which has a higher graduation rate than the national average?

The Arkansas graduation rate is 80% while the national rate is 74%.

Incidentally, the New York graduation rate is only 67%.

And no I don't have a link handy, but it was reported in last weeks newspapers.

Guess I misspoke about Hog Holler, should have said Hog Scald Hollow.

What was the methodology of the study? How did it count dropouts or kids that don't ever start high school?

As a teacher, what would your response be if your students continually quoted "facts" in their research papers but didn't attribute or footnote them appropriately, but rather said "I read it last week but don't remember which book"?

 

[Dayton3]

Bullshit. A true teacher is going to do everything in their power to engage the students and give them every opportunity to learn.

quote]

You need to quit watching "Stand and Deliver" and "The Ron Clark Story".